Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!msuinfo!oyster.cps.msu.edu!wilbur From: wilbur@oyster.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) Subject: Re: status poll for News article Message-ID: <1992Jun19.225410.908@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Sender: news@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University References: <1992Jun19.010931.767@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <1992Jun19.120037.16391@rhrk.uni-kl.de> Date: Fri, 19 Jun 92 22:54:10 GMT Lines: 51 In article <1992Jun19.120037.16391@rhrk.uni-kl.de>, kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring) writes: |> In article <1992Jun19.010931.767@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, wilbur@tuna.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) writes: |> >Ok Alt.alien.visitors, |> > |> >Can the readers out there send me a reply as to whether they: |> >( when I state UFO's ...you know what mean...for you comics out there) |> |> You mean alien spacecraft? Then why don't you say so? I can't I'm not writing a for a scientific journal. Do you really expect me to put this poll in terms of exact scienticic terminology or legal jargon?? Get a clue, and stop being hinderence. |> choose one of those options. That has nothing to do with comics, |> it's just that I can't take you seriously when your choice of |> words indicates that you don't even think for a second about what |> you say. |> |> Especially I don't understand 10). see the above reply. |> |> >10) UFO's don't exist here or elsewhere. |> |> Does that mean: Aliens don't exist on earth or elsewhere, |> or: Alien spacecraft don't exist on earth or elsewhere, |> or: they (whatever) never did and never will, |> or what? Most people can follow a sequence. Obviously, you can't. For you I will rewrite the option: 10) I BELIEVE that UFO's/aliens don't exist here (On Earth or anywhere within a parsec) or elsewhere (meaning anywhere is this universe or any other universe, if it exists.) |> |> Is it a coincidence that this doesn't start with "Believe", |> or is everybody who chooses that point a Dogmatic Disbeliever |> who doesn't even know that his opinion is only an opinion? |> |> -- |> -Caddy--(thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany)----- |> Hey, I found a new witty saying for my .sig! Brick Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!msuinfo!oyster.cps.msu.edu!wilbur From: wilbur@oyster.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) Subject: Re: reasons for NASA disclosure Message-ID: <1992Jun19.231148.2309@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Sender: news@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University References: <1992Jun11.205105.29626@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <8317@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> <1992Jun19.222452.128@degsyd.syd.deg.csiro.au> Date: Fri, 19 Jun 92 23:11:48 GMT Lines: 50 In article <1992Jun19.222452.128@degsyd.syd.deg.csiro.au>, ip_boss@degsyd.syd.deg.csiro.au (Jack Churchill) writes: |> In article <8317@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au>, rhys@cs.uq.oz.au (Rhys Weatherley) writes: |> > Disclaimer: I neither believe nor disbelieve in UFO's, etc. I'm happily |> > sitting on the fence waiting for further evidence, one way or the other. |> > The following reply may seem a little harsh, but without supporting evidence |> > you don't have a leg to stand on. |> |> My exact feelings. |> |> > In <1992Jun11.205105.29626@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> wilbur@oyster.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) writes: |> > |> >>Someone asked: "Why would the government allow that to be shown on TV?".|> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I WROTE THIS. NOT THIS. |> > You're supposing of course that the government controls every aspect of what |> > is shown on TV and can therefore dictate what is and isn't shown. |> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I DID NOT WRITE THE ABOVE. |> >>As the on theory goes: The Government is slowly allowing more and more info out |> >>to the public as to soften the blow of reality when our ancestors return from |> >>whatever part of the universe they are coming from. |> > HERE, I WROTE THE ABOVE. |> > Facts Brick. Where's the facts? You have the good basis for a SF/conspiracy |> > novel though I'll grant you. :-) READ THE ABOVE. "As the theory on theory goes: ..." I didn't originate this theory. |> |> Actually there was a SF movie done some time ago on this. Can't remember the |> name though - irrelevant. |> |> I'm tired of all these UFO reports, etc. I have an open mind (when I was a kid |> I believed in aliens and all that) and will remain this way unless real hard |> proof is shown for all to see. |> |> -- |> Jack N. Churchill | jack@syd.deg.csiro.au Just clarifing, Brick Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10461 sci.skeptic:26106 alt.alien.visitors:6532 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!msuinfo!oyster.cps.msu.edu!wilbur From: wilbur@oyster.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) Subject: Re: Whitley Shreiber Message-ID: <1992Jun19.231956.2966@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Sender: wilbur@oyster.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University References: <60637@cup.portal.com> <60794@cup.portal.com> <1992Jun19.202102.10630@m.cs.uiuc.edu> <1992Jun19.203408.1737@terminator.cc.umich.edu> Date: Fri, 19 Jun 92 23:19:56 GMT Lines: 16 In article <1992Jun19.203408.1737@terminator.cc.umich.edu>, lovesexy@ftp.ifs.umich.edu (Michael T. Glazier) writes: |> Needed: |> |> An e*mail, p.o. box, or c/o address for Whitley Shreiber. |> |> Thank You. |> |> mtg@um.cc.umich.edi ^^^^^^ Hey, University of Michigan people aren't allowed in this group! :) A rival from Michigan State, Brick Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!msuinfo!oyster.cps.msu.edu!wilbur From: wilbur@oyster.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party Message-ID: <1992Jun19.233330.4150@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Sender: news@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University References: <74137@ut-emx.uucp> <1992Jun19.182925.14651@microsoft.com> Date: Fri, 19 Jun 92 23:33:30 GMT Lines: 23 In article <1992Jun19.182925.14651@microsoft.com>, marcmil@microsoft.com (Marc Milanini) writes: |> In article gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston) writes: |> >There is NO scientifically valid evidence, what-so-ever, to suggest |> >that our planet has been visited by extra-terrestrial beings. Does [ stuff deleted] |> |> I can see Tipler's theory hiding between your argument. Do you think |> that, if ETs visited the Earth one million years ago, we should have |> evidence of it ? The proportion of the surface of our planet investigated Well actually there is this one curious bit of archeology note. They found a stone that was dated back, I believe, 1 or 100 million years ago, and INSIDE of it was a perfectly cylindrical, metal object. This metal object was analysed to be something like 99.9999% pure magnesium. Anyone else read this? It was also in the documentary: "The outerspace connection". Brick Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!msuinfo!oyster.cps.msu.edu!wilbur From: wilbur@oyster.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10billion watt lasar Message-ID: <1992Jun19.234110.4654@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Keywords: Aurora Sender: news@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University References: <1992Jun18.233107.22814@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <1992Jun19.143442.3361@arizona.edu> Distribution: world,local Date: Fri, 19 Jun 92 23:41:10 GMT Lines: 50 In article <1992Jun19.143442.3361@arizona.edu>, wallin@hep6.physics.arizona.edu (Tripp Wallin) writes: |> In article <1992Jun18.233107.22814@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, wilbur@tuna.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) writes: |> |> I talked to someone who works for the United States Govt on Wednesday. |> |> I recently told him of the research that I was doing for the series of articles |> |> that I was to write for some newspapers. These articles are about the UFO |> |> controversy. Anyways, I mentioned to him if he had seen the footage from the |> |> shuttle. He said, no. |> |> |> |> As soon as I described what occurred, his eyes fixed on me and said, " I know |> |> what it was that shot up...a lasar." I said, "A lasar? How do you know that?" |> |> He replied: "They got a lasar that shoots up into space. I've seen actual |> |> footage of it. Its in the desert in New Mexico, I believe... They showed them |> |> making sure that there were no planes in the way when the shot it." |> |> |> |> I thought this was interesting. So I did some research. |> |> |> |> At Los Alamos National Laboratory is a 20 BILLION WATT LASAR!!! |> |> |> |> And get this, the name of the lasar is A U R O R A ! ! ! ! |> |> |> |> Bizzzzzaaaaarrrreeee! |> |> |> |> |> |> |> |> |> |> Brick |> I really don't find it that Bizzzzzaaaarrrreeee! that Los Alamos National No, not the laser being Bizzzzarre, but the name....AURORA. |> Laboratory would have a laser that big. I mean they do fusion research there |> and well it kinda uses very large lasers to do the experiments. I believe the |> place where you confirmed your information from (some journal on fusion research |> perhaps) should have told you this too. And a laser that size I really doubt could |> have been aimed into space becuase it has to be huge and moving it would undoubtly |> be hard. Anyways why would they want to aim it into space, even a laser that big |> will probably become incoherent by the time it got to the upper atmosphere so it |> would be pretty useless. If I'm wrong please tell me don't flame me. |> They shoot lasers up to moon to do calculations. They themselves have to be darn powerful and have a very, very narrow beam leaving the earth in order to not diffuse to much by the time it reaches the moon. Needless to say that it has to be bounced back down again, getting further diffused...unless they somehow *compress* the beam back again before it returns. |> Tripp Wallin |> Physics and Math Undergraduate |> wallin@hep4.physics.arizona.edu Brick Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Grays Message-ID: <60815@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 19 Jun 92 18:22:38 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992May30.034530.21726@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> <1992Jun7.035611.8580@ucselx.sdsu.edu> <1992Jun9.042422.10949@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Lines: 3 QUIT QUIT This is a test. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!arizona.edu!hep6.physics.arizona.edu!wallin From: wallin@hep6.physics.arizona.edu (Tripp Wallin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10billion watt lasar Keywords: Aurora Message-ID: <1992Jun19.185449.3366@arizona.edu> Date: 20 Jun 92 01:54:47 GMT Article-I.D.: arizona.1992Jun19.185449.3366 References: <1992Jun18.233107.22814@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <1992Jun19.143442.3361@arizona.edu> <1992Jun19.234110.4654@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Distribution: world,local Lines: 73 Nntp-Posting-Host: hep6.physics.arizona.edu In article <1992Jun19.234110.4654@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, wilbur@oyster.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) writes: |> In article <1992Jun19.143442.3361@arizona.edu>, wallin@hep6.physics.arizona.edu (Tripp Wallin) writes: |> |> In article <1992Jun18.233107.22814@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, wilbur@tuna.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) writes: |> |> |> I talked to someone who works for the United States Govt on Wednesday. |> |> |> I recently told him of the research that I was doing for the series of articles |> |> |> that I was to write for some newspapers. These articles are about the UFO |> |> |> controversy. Anyways, I mentioned to him if he had seen the footage from the |> |> |> shuttle. He said, no. |> |> |> |> |> |> As soon as I described what occurred, his eyes fixed on me and said, " I know |> |> |> what it was that shot up...a lasar." I said, "A lasar? How do you know that?" |> |> |> He replied: "They got a lasar that shoots up into space. I've seen actual |> |> |> footage of it. Its in the desert in New Mexico, I believe... They showed them |> |> |> making sure that there were no planes in the way when the shot it." |> |> |> |> |> |> I thought this was interesting. So I did some research. |> |> |> |> |> |> At Los Alamos National Laboratory is a 20 BILLION WATT LASAR!!! |> |> |> |> |> |> And get this, the name of the lasar is A U R O R A ! ! ! ! |> |> |> |> |> |> Bizzzzzaaaaarrrreeee! |> |> |> |> |> |> |> |> |> |> |> |> |> |> |> Brick |> |> I really don't find it that Bizzzzzaaaarrrreeee! that Los Alamos National |> No, not the laser being Bizzzzarre, but the name....AURORA. |> |> |> Laboratory would have a laser that big. I mean they do fusion research there |> |> and well it kinda uses very large lasers to do the experiments. I believe the |> |> place where you confirmed your information from (some journal on fusion research |> |> perhaps) should have told you this too. And a laser that size I really doubt could |> |> have been aimed into space becuase it has to be huge and moving it would undoubtly |> |> be hard. Anyways why would they want to aim it into space, even a laser that big |> |> will probably become incoherent by the time it got to the upper atmosphere so it |> |> would be pretty useless. If I'm wrong please tell me don't flame me. |> |> |> They shoot lasers up to moon to do calculations. They themselves have to be darn |> powerful and have a very, very narrow beam leaving the earth in order to not |> diffuse to much by the time it reaches the moon. Needless to say that it has to |> be bounced back down again, getting further diffused...unless they somehow |> *compress* the beam back again before it returns. |> |> |> Tripp Wallin |> |> Physics and Math Undergraduate |> |> wallin@hep4.physics.arizona.edu |> |> |> Brick When I said the beam would become incoherent by the time it reached the upper atmosphere I didn't mean that it would diffuse. All in all incoherence and diffusion are the same things. Though I would suggest you get out an elementary optics text and look up coherence and incoherence. The special thing about a laser is that it doesn't lose its coherence after large distances like your common ordinary household light bulb does. And I don't see how making the beam thinner has anything to do with the beam not diffusing, unless they are making it so thin as to be on the order of the wavelength of light but that is ridiculous. I could understand them using a thin beam so as not to lose that much information from diffusion but the main reason I would think they would do it would be power reason. They are already making an extremely powerful laser it is hard to make one with a wider beam path. Oh and by the way all they use is prism on the moon for their reflections and they don't "*compress*" the beam back again either. If you know exactly, or even close for that matter, how far the original beam is spreadout you can retrieve the information without re-compression. I'm not sure how complicated this is but we did a similar problem like this in my Optics class last semester and mathmatically it wasn't that hard. And anyways to measure the distance to the moon using a laser all they need is the time the trip took and that is easy to do if you have a photo-multiplier handy. Tripp Wallin Physics and Math Undergraduate wallin@hep4.physics.arizona.edu Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10462 sci.skeptic:26117 alt.alien.visitors:6537 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!mips!pacbell.com!network.ucsd.edu!sdcc12!sdcc3!slinke From: slinke@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Steven Linke) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The Only Lesson There Is - Pleiadians 8 Message-ID: <34853@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> Date: 20 Jun 92 03:42:23 GMT Article-I.D.: sdcc12.34853 References: <60637@cup.portal.com> <1992Jun17.165631.1172@eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca> Sender: news@sdcc12.ucsd.edu Followup-To: talk.religion.newage Organization: University of California, San Diego Lines: 56 Nntp-Posting-Host: sdcc3.ucsd.edu In article <1992Jun17.165631.1172@eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca> ted@eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca (Ted Powell) writes: > >On the off chance that not all the molecular biologists following these >newsgroups would have read this far through the posting, I thought I'd >highlight a part that caught my eye, and pose a question. > >>Your DNA is long strands of chromosomal matter stored inside the cells. >[...further explanation of DNA coding...] >>What the scientists have uncoded is perhaps one-millionth of what is there. >[...explanation of junk DNA...] >>When you come into body you carefully select a family that has a certain >>lineage so that in the times that are coming, you are knowing that with >>your assignment to bring light to the planet you will have the ability to >>fire that which has been termed the junk DNA and to move into an awakening >>of new abilities within yourselves. As you do this you will assist the rest >>of mankind to do it. >[...more in the same vein...] >>You assist this activation when you get into what is called oxygenation of >>the system. When you breathe. When you bring in oxygen into the body, it >>fires the DNA coding and activates it. > >So, my question is: What, if any, tie-in is there between oxygenation >and expression of DNA? (I'm not aware of any non-trivial connection >myself, but I'm only an amateur in this area.) There is NO connection between breathing more oxygen and gene expression. Gene expression can be controlled at several levels within cells: 1) Transcriptional control (DNA to RNA) 2) RNA processing control (ex. splicing) 3) RNA transport control (selective export of RNA from the nucleus) 4) Translational control (RNA to protein) 5) mRNA degradation control 6) Protein activity control All of these processes are dependent on enzymatic controls of proteins or are self-catalytic. Oxygen is present in cells (it is involved in energy reactions), but has nothing to do with these mechanisms. In fact, over-oxygenation can be harmful or even lethal. -- Steve Linke Salk Institute (Gene Expression Lab) La Jolla, CA Internet: slinke@sdcc3.ucsd.edu Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10463 sci.skeptic:26118 alt.alien.visitors:6538 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!mips!pacbell.com!network.ucsd.edu!sdcc12!sdcc3!slinke From: slinke@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Steven Linke) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The Only Lesson There Is - Pleiadians 8 Message-ID: <34854@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> Date: 20 Jun 92 04:12:48 GMT References: <60637@cup.portal.com> <1992Jun17.165631.1172@eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca> <60794@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@sdcc12.ucsd.edu Followup-To: talk.religion.newage Organization: University of California, San Diego Lines: 57 Nntp-Posting-Host: sdcc3.ucsd.edu In article <60794@cup.portal.com> Don_-_Showen@cup.portal.com writes: >Well since I can't see the DNA wakeup under a microscope (yet) I will >have to speculate from my experiences. It has been estimated that we >only use 10% or so of our mind which may equate to only using 10% of >our seven and a half foot DNA. This is largley because most peoples >breathing is atrophied. They are taught and told if they breathe too >much they will hyperventilate and that that is not good. In truth >hyperventilation is what happens when one has underventilated all of >their lives and it is only the phenomena of the body finally getting >enough oxygen. What happens by not breathing or oxygenating enough >is that emotions are stored in the body and not processed. These >stored emotions are the primary cause of disease and aging and lock >down the DNA from activating. I'm not sure if you are joking, but I will respond as if this were serious. It is true that scientists estimate that only about 10% of the 3 billion base-pair human genome is expressed as functional proteins (structural and enzymatic) and RNA. However, the rest of the DNA is not all "junk" DNA. Major portions of DNA contained at the ends of our 46 chromosomes (called telomers) gives structure that is required for continued accurate replication of the DNA. Other major portions of the DNA are contained at interior sites in the chromosomes that serve as attachment points to separate the replicated DNA when cells divide. Other portions contain un-transcribed regulatory regions, highly-repetitive interior structure, etc. As for your hot-tub hyperventilation theory (if you are being serious--it is hard to tell), it is not only incorrect but could be very dangerous. Your body controls breathing based on the carbon dioxide content of the blood. When carbon dioxide levels increase, you breathe harder to get more oxygen into your blood. However, when you breathe very fast or very deeply for extended periods, the large amount oxygen that gets into your blood displaces more and more carbon dioxide. The decreasing concentration of carbon dioxide in the blood eventually "fool" the body to stop breathing completely. If the person is not revived and his blood carbon dioxide levels brought down, brain damage can occur. Of course, that is the worst case scenario, but the bottom line is heavy breathing will not bring more oxygen to your DNA and lead to expression of "junk" DNA--it will stay in your blood, screw up the chemoreceptors that control your breathing, and may cause serious medical problems. Even if junk DNA does represent "old, unused" genes, it cannot be expressed without the proper regulatory DNA elements and uninterrupted reading frames. In other words, NO WAY!!!! Hyperventilation may make you light-headed or even give some sort of a "buzz," but it is very dangerous to fool around with. Do not do it, and do not recommend that anybody else do it. -- Steve Linke Salk Institute (Gene Expression Lab) La Jolla, CA Internet: slinke@sdcc3.ucsd.edu Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6539 sci.skeptic:26119 alt.paranormal:5312 Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!torn!cunews!revcan!software.mitel.com!meier From: meier@Software.Mitel.COM (Rolf Meier) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: GULFBREEZE: Don's GB Sighting Report Message-ID: <12070@rehder> Date: 19 Jun 92 19:20:00 GMT References: <1992Jun18.003218.7153@bilver.uucp> Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada. Lines: 19 You idiots. If this stupid UFO of yours is so repeatable, why don't you just get closer to where you think it appears. By the way, this is probably aircraft landing lights, which are pointed directly at you. When they are turned off, you see the filament gradually dimming (thus your 7 seconds). This is followed by the normal red and green marker lights. Can you say temperature inversion? In other words, the actual object you are seeing may be below the horizon. When are you morons going to learn that lights in the sky don't prove anything. _______________________________________________________________________ Rolf Meier Mitel Corporation "Everything You Know Is Wrong" Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!mips!pacbell.com!att!rutgers!psinntp!psinntp!dg-rtp!aquila!harrism From: harrism@aquila.rtp.dg.com (Mike Harris) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: reasons for NASA disclosure Message-ID: <1992Jun19.183534.15538@dg-rtp.dg.com> Date: 19 Jun 92 18:35:34 GMT References: <1992Jun11.205105.29626@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Sender: usenet@dg-rtp.dg.com (Usenet Administration) Reply-To: harrism@dg-rtp.dg.com Organization: Data General Corp., Research Triangle Park, NC Lines: 7 In article <1992Jun11.205105.29626@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, wilbur@oyster.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) writes: |> in order to build it. I believe that this is why, those ships flying in pairs |> over California to Nevada, created so much noise that they set off the |> seismographs at the edge of California. The ones that detect that CA is falling into the ocean? Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6541 sci.skeptic:26120 alt.paranormal:5314 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!psinntp!dg-rtp!aquila!harrism From: harrism@aquila.rtp.dg.com (Mike Harris) Subject: Re: UFO video from NASA - The CAMERA was moving! Sender: usenet@dg-rtp.dg.com (Usenet Administration) Message-ID: <1992Jun19.184059.16417@dg-rtp.dg.com> Date: Fri, 19 Jun 92 18:40:59 GMT Reply-To: harrism@dg-rtp.dg.com References: <1992Jun9.055238.27160@rbdc.wsnc.org> <1992Jun12.141948.15249@news.eng.convex.com> Organization: Data General Corp., Research Triangle Park, NC Keywords: UFO Lines: 11 In article <1992Jun12.141948.15249@news.eng.convex.com>, swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) writes: |> In article revpk@cellar.org (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano) writes: |> No, this is the first mention of a "beam" I've seen. There was no beam. |> It was an object, similar to the first object. It appears to lift off |> from earth and rapidly accelerate to cross the path of the first object |> about 0.5 sec. after the first object changes directions. I have connections and they told me over a few beers that they were trying to shoot down the ship. 'said they almost shot down the shuttle in their haste. Good thing they didn't. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6542 sci.skeptic:26121 alt.paranormal:5315 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!rutgers!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: GULFBREEZE: Don's GB Sighting Report Keywords: Rolf (Billys' Brother) Meier Message-ID: <1992Jun20.062329.5879@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: 20 Jun 92 06:23:29 GMT References: <1992Jun18.003218.7153@bilver.uucp> <12070@rehder> Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Lines: 36 Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com Rolf, [you write]: >>You idiots. If this stupid UFO of yours is so repeatable, why don't you >>just get closer to where you think it appears. >>By the way, this is probably aircraft landing lights, which are >>pointed directly at you. When they are turned off, you see the >>filament gradually dimming (thus your 7 seconds). This is followed >>by the normal red and green marker lights. >>Can you say temperature inversion? In other words, the actual >>object you are seeing may be below the horizon. >>When are you morons going to learn that lights in the sky don't >>prove anything. _______________________________________________________________________ >>Rolf Meier Mitel Corporation >> "Everything You Know Is Wrong" Is it difficult to type from the position you are in ? I think if you relax your colon just a bit,there still may be a bit of chance (although very remote) to release your cranium (& the marbles contained within) from any further damage. X X || ^ || /-\ || || \/ Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Mike.Keithly From: Mike.Keithly@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Keithly) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Alien/u.s. Gov't Collusion Message-ID: <138718.2A42C901@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 20 Jun 92 05:45:01 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/605.0 - MICAP(sm) Net, Littleton CO Lines: 285 > From: anson@netcom.com (Anson Kennedy) > Date: 18 Jun 92 19:54:58 GMT > Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 > 241-9760 guest) > Message-ID: > Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Anson I posted this same article sometime ago and the results and flames were devastating. Watch it.. Mike Keithly > Below is the text of a flyer someone sent me detailing the > latest alien/ > U.S. government collusion theory. It is apparently a > compilation of Bill > Coooper's stuff with a few Lear tidbits thrown in for spice. > The flyer > itself did not name the original source for this stuff, so if > anyone has > info on just *who* put out this flyer, I'd appreciate it if > you'd let me > know. > BEGIN FLYER > THIS INFORMATION COULD SAVE YOUR LIFE AND FREEDOM > THE COMING "OFFICIAL" ANNOUNCEMENT OF THE ALIEN > PRESENCE ON EARTH > WHY "STAR WARS", THE HUBBEL [sic] SPACE TELESCOPE, THE > SUDDEN FALL OF COMMUNISM? > WHAT IS GOING ON? Something very SINISTER is going on. > Polls reveal that over 90% of the American people > believe in UFOs and 95% of these people believe the > government is keeping this knowledge from the public. > But why? Are they afraid the people will panic if an > "official" announcement were made? Hardly. Such > announcement would create interest and excitement and > many questions, particularly by the churches, but not > panic. Why then the continued cover-up? > There is overwhelming evidence in the past several > years from "whistle-blowers" - retired military > officers who have finally said, "Enough is enough! > It's time the government told the people the truth!" > These officers, such as Navy intelligence officer, > William Cooper, Major John Lear (whose father founded > the Lear-Jet Corp.) and Air Force officer William > English, to name but a few, have all discovered the > truth, and at the risk of their very lives, are trying > to alert YOU to the secrets behind the UFOs and the > Alien Presence on this earth. These people worked on > secret projects, had access to 'classified' Top Secret > documents, had seen with their own eyes 'captured' > aliens, or extraterrestrial entities, UFOs and the > incredible technology they brought with them. > Sightings of 'UFOs' (unidentified flying objects) have > been reported throughout history, and biblical and > historic references to "flaming chariots" huge flying > 'birds' and odd-looking beings predate our history by > thousands of years. In the 1940s several alien > spacecraft were recovered by the U.S. and other > countries, along with a few dead aliens and one live > one they named EBE (a name suggested by Dr. Vannever > Bush and was short for Extraterrestrial Biological > Entity). > In 1953 astronomers discovered large objects in space > which were moving toward Earth. At first they believed > these were asteroids, but later evidence proved the > objects could only be spaceships. Project Sigma and > Project Plato intercepted radio communication and using > the computer binary language, was able to arrange a > landing that resulted in face-to-face contact with > alien beings from another planet. Meanwhile, a race of > human-looking aliens contacted the U.S. Government, > warning us that the aliens orbiting the equator were > hostile beings from Orion. These human-type aliens > demanded we dismantle and destroy our nuclear weapons, > that we were on a path of self-destruction and we must > stop killing each other, stop polluting the earth, stop > raping the earth's natural resources and learn to live > in harmony with one another. President Eisenhower > rejected these demands. > Later in 1954 the race of aliens, known as Greys, from > Zeta Reticuli area in space, who had been orbiting the > equator, landed at Holloman Air Force Base. They > stated their planet was dying and they needed quarters > on earth to conduct genetic experiments that might > allow their race to survive; this in exchange for > certain technology. They could abduct humans on a > limited basis for the purpose of medical examination > and monitoring, with the stipulation that the humans > would not be harmed, would be returned to their point > of abduction, that the human would have no memory of > the event. It was also agreed that alien bases would > be constructed underground, beneath Indian reservations > in the 4 corners area of Utah, New Mexico, Arizona and > Colorado. Another was to be constructed in Nevada in > the area known as S-4, about 7 miles south of Area 51, > known as 'Dreamland.' A multi-billion dollar secret > fund was organized and kept by the Military Office of > the White House, supposedly to build secret underground > sites for the President and staff in case of military > attacks. > By secret Executive Memorandum, NSC 5410, Eisenhower > established a permanent committee known as "Majority > Twelve" (MJ-12) to oversee and conduct all covert > activities with the aliens. This included FBI director > J. Edgar Hoover and six leaders of the 'Council on > Foreign Relations, known as the 'Wise Men' and later > others from the Trilateral Commission. George Bush, > Gordon Dean, and Brzezinski were among them. > A major finding of the commission was the aliens were > using humans and animals for a source of glandular > secretions, enzymes, hormonal secretions, blood and in > horrible genetic experiments. The aliens explained > these actions as necessary for their survival, that if > their genetic structure were not improved, their race > would cease to exist. > The ruling powers decided that one means of funding the > alien project was to corner the illegal drug market. A > young ambitious member of the Council on Foreign > Relations was approached. His name is George Bush who > at the time was president and CEO of Zapata Oil Co. > based in Texas. Zapata Oil was experimenting with > offshore oil drilling and it was arranged that the > drugs could be shipped from South America to the > offshore platforms by fishing boats, then transferred > to the U.S. shore by normal transportation, thus > avoiding search by customs agents. The plan worked > better than anyone expected, and today the CIA controls > all the world's illegal drug markets. One should > remember, it was George Bush who first started selling > drugs to our children. The drug money was used to > finance the deep underground alien bases. > Conclusions: the Bilderburgers, the Council on Foreign > Relations and the Trilateral Commission are the SECRET > GOVERNMENT and rule this nation through MJ-12 and the > study group known as the Jason Society. > Throughout history the aliens have manipulated and/or > ruled the human race through various secret societies, > religion and the occult. The CFR and the Trilateral > Commission are in complete control of the alien > technology and the nation's economy. Eisenhower was > the last president to know the entire overview of the > alien problem. Succeeding presidents were told only > what MJ-12 wanted them to know, and it was NOT the > truth. MJ-12 presented each new president with a > picture of a lost alien culture seeking to renew > itself, build a home on this planet and shower us with > gifts of technology. Each president bought the story > hook, line and sinker. Meanwhile innocent people > continue to suffer unspeakable horrors at the hands of > alien and human scientists who are engaged in barbarous > research that would make the Nazis pale in comparison. > As if that is not enough many people end up as food for > the insatiable alien appetite for biological enzymes, > hormonal secretions and blood. At least 1 in every 40 > Americans have been implanted with alien devices that > are used to control them if necessity calls. > By 1989 over 3 million 'Greys' are occupying these deep > multi-level underground complexes. Level 7 at Dulce is > called "Nightmare Hall." They have welched on their > agreement on abducting humans; today over 25 million > citizens have been abducted and implanted, a literal > army awaiting orders to march! (Whitley Strieber has > written bestselling books on his personal experience as > have many others). For this reason other nations were > informed. Within 5 months the communist monolith > Russia was dismantled to unite with the U.S. and its > technology to fight the invasion. The Hubbel [sic] > Space Telescope was created to keep a watchful eye on > the invasion fleet; Star Wars technology has been > developed to hopefully stop them in outer space before > they can get to the earth. > Today, the government is on the horns of a dilemma. > Too many sources are releasing alien information. The > public could get angry at continued secrecy. So MJ-12 > plans soon to make an "official" announcement, under > controlled conditions, probably Area 51. Network TV > will be called to meet the staged 'landing' of the > aliens, these being the Greys. They will come bearing > gifts, technology that supposedly will heal cancer and > AIDS, retard aging, etc. They will tell us they are > the 'saviors of humanity' who have come to defend the > earth against an invasion of man-eating aliens called > Reptoids. This story is a LIE, they already work for > the Reptoids! Their plan is to unify the world into a > One-World-Government, a 'New World Order' with the > argument that only this can defeat the invasion by > Reptoids. This is a trap to enslave the world's > population. Control will be accomplished through the > money system, a universal currency controlled by > certain international bankers, who for years have been > lackeys of the aliens, who seized upon their greed and > lust for wealth and power as a means to bring about > their evil plan to control the earth. (This also being > the scenario predicted in the Bible's 'Book of > Revelation' [sic] wherein only those who accept the > Mark of the Beast (the aliens'being [sic] the 'Beast' > and the 'Mark' being some sort of laser tattoo or > Credit Card they will use, which will allow people to > buy and sell goods). Those who do not accept this > 'Mark' must live outside the money system and survive > somehow on their own, through barter etc. > SO BE AWARE! ONLY YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF THIS FAKE INVASION > AND FAKE RAPTURE CAN PREVENT IT FROM HAPPENING. DEMAND > THE TRUTH FROM YOUR GOVERNMENT. TELL THEM YOU KNOW > ABOUT THE ALIENS AND THAT THERE ARE GOOD ALIENS AND BAD > ALIENS AND THAT MJ-12 IS PROMOTING THE BAD ALIENS AND > THE ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT THEY HOPE TO CONTROL. > INSIST ON THE TRUE STORY OF THE ALIEN PRESENCE! YOUR > LIFE COULD DEPEND UPON IT, AS WELL AS YOUR FREEDOMS! > FOR FURTHER RESEARCH AND MORE INFORMATION: > Arcturus Book Service: PO Box 83183, Stone Mt., GA 30083 > (Specialists in UFO books and magazines, tapes, videos) > WorldWide UFO News Clipping Bureau & Public Information > Center, 955 Lancaster Rd. Suite 420, Orlando, FL 32809 > (Tapes, videos etc. on UFOs and Alien Presence) > C.A.C. Box 115, Olympia, Wa [sic] 98507 (Cosmic > Newsletter > with much information on UFOs and Alien Presence) > The William Cooper Foundation, 19744 Beach Blvd. No. 301 > Huntington Beach, Cal. 92648. Phone: (602) 567-6536 > Stanley K. Barrington, 2059 East Ave. I, Sp. 11, > Lancaster, > CA 93535 > BOOKS: An Alien Harvest, by Linda Moulton Howe, PO Box > 3130, > Littleton, CO 80161 (Secret of the cattle mutilations) > The Gulf Breeze Sightings, by Ed Walters, Wm. Morrow & > Co. > Pub. > The Watchers, by Raymond Fowler, Bantam Books, N.Y. > Communion, by Whitley Strieber, Wm. Morrow Pub. N.Y. > Ask your local bookstore! > CIRCULATE THIS INFORMATION, MAKE 30 COPIES! > -- > Anson Kennedy > Secretary of the Georgia Skeptics (but don't even THINK I > speak for them!) > "If I had been the Virgin Mary, I would have > said 'No.'" > -Margaret "Stevie" Smith > (1902-1971) > --- ConfMail V4.00 > * Origin: Paranet(sm) - The world's leading UFO Investigative > News Network (1:30163/150) -- Mike Keithly - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Mike.Keithly@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pilchuck!ssc!eskimo!nanook From: nanook@eskimo.celestial.com (Robert Dinse) Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10billion watt lasar Message-ID: <1992Jun20.050334.6924@eskimo.celestial.com> Summary: LASER NOT LASAR Keywords: Aurora Organization: -> ESKIMO NORTH (206) For-Ever <- References: <1992Jun18.233107.22814@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1992 05:03:34 GMT Lines: 25 In article <1992Jun18.233107.22814@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, wilbur@tuna.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) writes: > I talked to someone who works for the United States Govt on Wednesday. > I recently told him of the research that I was doing for the series of articles > that I was to write for some newspapers. These articles are about the UFO > controversy. Anyways, I mentioned to him if he had seen the footage from the > shuttle. He said, no. > > As soon as I described what occurred, his eyes fixed on me and said, " I know > what it was that shot up...a lasar." I said, "A lasar? How do you know that?" > He replied: "They got a lasar that shoots up into space. I've seen actual > footage of it. Its in the desert in New Mexico, I believe... They showed them > making sure that there were no planes in the way when the shot it." > > I thought this was interesting. So I did some research. > > At Los Alamos National Laboratory is a 20 BILLION WATT LASAR!!! A 20 Gw LASER maybe, but LASAR never... L)ight A)mplification by S)timulated E)mission of R)adiation Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6548 sci.skeptic:26140 alt.paranormal:5317 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!uchinews!msuinfo!tuna.cps.msu.edu!wilbur From: wilbur@tuna.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) Subject: Re: GULFBREEZE: Don's GB Sighting Report Message-ID: <1992Jun20.222155.19086@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Sender: news@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University References: <1992Jun18.003218.7153@bilver.uucp> <12070@rehder> Date: Sat, 20 Jun 92 22:21:55 GMT Lines: 25 In article <12070@rehder>, meier@Software.Mitel.COM (Rolf Meier) writes: |> You idiots. If this stupid UFO of yours is so repeatable, why don't you |> just get closer to where you think it appears. |> |> By the way, this is probably aircraft landing lights, which are |> pointed directly at you. When they are turned off, you see the |> filament gradually dimming (thus your 7 seconds). This is followed |> by the normal red and green marker lights. |> |> Can you say temperature inversion? In other words, the actual |> object you are seeing may be below the horizon. Ok, I'll bite...How can you see an object below the horizon? And what the heck is temperature inversion, and what does it have to do with my first question? |> |> When are you morons going to learn that lights in the sky don't |> prove anything. |> |> _______________________________________________________________________ |> Rolf Meier Mitel Corporation |> "Everything You Know Is Wrong" |> |> Brick Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!comp.vuw.ac.nz!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!kc Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Closed Abductee Conference Message-ID: <32918.1729220254@kcbbs.gen.nz> From: Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton) Date: 21 Jun 92 09:08:38 GMT References: Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand Lines: 21 sheaffer@netcom.com(Robert Sheaffer) 19Jun92 174121GMT types As the only representitive of skeptic-dom Well are you going to blab all on any wild & wolly doings down(or is that up) at MIT? What would happen if you did tell all you know of the closed door doings?. I read it was done the way it was to protect possible loss of jobs of attendees.If so would that be appropro or would the civil liberties brigade & all be pouncing on employees for unconstitutional actions?. Well if your skeptical of these requirements did you confront Pritchard & Co for a thoroughful explanation or would that be beyond the pale?. & what about those proceedings?.When & where are they due?. ********************************************* ARE ETOI SPACESHIPS SHY OR ARE THEY JUST WAITING TO SEAL THE ROYALTY DEAL? **************************************************** Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6550 sci.skeptic:26141 alt.paranormal:5318 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!tuna.cps.msu.edu!wilbur From: wilbur@tuna.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: GULFBREEZE: Don's GB Sighting Report Keywords: Rolf (Billys' Brother) Meier Message-ID: <1992Jun20.222502.19234@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Date: 20 Jun 92 22:25:02 GMT References: <1992Jun18.003218.7153@bilver.uucp> <12070@rehder> <1992Jun20.062329.5879@odin.corp.sgi.com> Sender: news@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University Lines: 40 In article <1992Jun20.062329.5879@odin.corp.sgi.com>, rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: |> |> Rolf, [you write]: |> |> >>You idiots. If this stupid UFO of yours is so repeatable, why don't you |> >>just get closer to where you think it appears. |> |> >>By the way, this is probably aircraft landing lights, which are |> >>pointed directly at you. When they are turned off, you see the |> >>filament gradually dimming (thus your 7 seconds). This is followed |> >>by the normal red and green marker lights. |> |> >>Can you say temperature inversion? In other words, the actual |> >>object you are seeing may be below the horizon. |> |> >>When are you morons going to learn that lights in the sky don't |> >>prove anything. |> |> _______________________________________________________________________ |> >>Rolf Meier Mitel Corporation |> >> "Everything You Know Is Wrong" |> |> |> |> Is it difficult to type from the position you are in ? I think if you relax |> your colon just a bit,there still may be a bit of chance (although very remote) |> to release your cranium (& the marbles contained within) from any further damage. X X || |> ^ || |> /-\ || |> || |> \/ |> Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ |> Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, |> rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |> |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ |> |> ha ha ha ha ha toooo funny! Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!tuna.cps.msu.edu!wilbur From: wilbur@tuna.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10billion watt lasar Keywords: Aurora Message-ID: <1992Jun20.223136.19526@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Date: 20 Jun 92 22:31:36 GMT References: <1992Jun18.233107.22814@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <1992Jun20.050334.6924@eskimo.celestial.com> Sender: news@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University Lines: 32 In article <1992Jun20.050334.6924@eskimo.celestial.com>, nanook@eskimo.celestial.com (Robert Dinse) writes: |> In article <1992Jun18.233107.22814@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, wilbur@tuna.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) writes: |> > I talked to someone who works for the United States Govt on Wednesday. |> > I recently told him of the research that I was doing for the series of articles |> > that I was to write for some newspapers. These articles are about the UFO |> > controversy. Anyways, I mentioned to him if he had seen the footage from the |> > shuttle. He said, no. |> > |> > As soon as I described what occurred, his eyes fixed on me and said, " I know |> > what it was that shot up...a lasar." I said, "A lasar? How do you know that?" |> > He replied: "They got a lasar that shoots up into space. I've seen actual |> > footage of it. Its in the desert in New Mexico, I believe... They showed them |> > making sure that there were no planes in the way when the shot it." |> > |> > I thought this was interesting. So I did some research. |> > |> > At Los Alamos National Laboratory is a 20 BILLION WATT LASAR!!! |> |> A 20 Gw LASER maybe, but LASAR never... |> |> L)ight |> A)mplification by |> S)timulated |> E)mission of |> R)adiation |> What a idiot, I knew the spelling and acronym...but some how f'ed the spelling up every time... Don't ask me how. Brick Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!tamsun.tamu.edu!zeus.tamu.edu!jmd9888 From: jmd9888@zeus.tamu.edu (Michael Durham) Subject: REQUEST: Roswell information; and how to get more Message-ID: <20JUN199221455246@zeus.tamu.edu> News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Sender: jmd9888@zeus.tamu.edu (DURHAM, JAMES MICHAEL) Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1992 02:45:00 GMT Lines: 12 Before I ask I would like every one to know that I have read quite a few books on the Roswell case so please dont tell me anymore books that I should read. This is a request for people doing any independent study, and would like to share any of their findings with me. The second part of this request is for anyone knowing how I can get a hold of any documents that Washington has put out on this...ie. the ones from the freedom of information act. Thanks in advance Michael Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10billion watt lasar Message-ID: Date: Sun, 21 Jun 92 03:13:49 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1992Jun18.233107.22814@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <1992Jun20.050334.6924@eskimo.celestial.com> <1992Jun20.223136.19526@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Keywords: Aurora Lines: 28 In article <1992Jun20.223136.19526@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> wilbur@tuna.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) writes: > >What a idiot, I knew the spelling and acronym...but some how f'ed the >spelling up >every time... Don't ask me how. > >Brick It is difficult to read text that wraps excessively. When I read from my sparc2 at work, I can just widen the window. But my PC at home does not allow for this. The discussion to date is fascinating, but hard to read. So I am asking, politely, that you post in 80 columns. When I gain some confidence in Windows or OS2, and buy one, this may not be a problem. Better yet, when Sun releases S5V4 for DOS, I may buy that. But like the 64K max for postings, it is a better idea to post in a format that the general audience can display. Please do not take this as a flame. Rich payner@netcom.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!csd4.csd.uwm.edu!markh From: markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark William Hopkins) Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10billion watt lasar Message-ID: <1992Jun21.160623.4640@uwm.edu> Keywords: Aurora Sender: news@uwm.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee References: <1992Jun18.233107.22814@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <1992Jun20.050334.6924@eskimo.celestial.com> <1992Jun20.223136.19526@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1992 16:06:23 GMT Lines: 6 (His persistent use of the "word" LASAR) In article <1992Jun20.223136.19526@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> wilbur@tuna.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) writes: >What a idiot, I knew the spelling and acronym...but some how f'ed the spelling up >every time... Don't ask me how. Have you encountered your future self engaged in time travel lately? Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!ucbvax!APOLLO.HP.COM!nelson_p From: nelson_p@APOLLO.HP.COM Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: GULFBREEZE: Don's GB Sighting Report Message-ID: <9206211832.AA06663@xuucp.ch.apollo.hp.com> Date: 21 Jun 92 18:13:57 GMT Article-I.D.: xuucp.9206211832.AA06663 Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Lines: 30 From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) >>>You idiots. If this stupid UFO of yours is so repeatable, why don't you >>>just get closer to where you think it appears. > >>>When are you morons going to learn that lights in the sky don't >>>prove anything. > >Is it difficult to type from the position you are in ? I think if you relax >your colon just a bit,there still may be a bit of chance (although very remote) >to release your cranium (& the marbles contained within) from any further damage. X X || OK, OK, so Mr. Meier's choice of words were regrettably inflammatory but he DID raise some legitimate points which neither Mr. Beckwith nor anyone else has addressed. 1. Lights in the sky DON'T mean anything. They don't even qualify this sighting as a UFO sighting, since the "O" in UFO stands for "object", and no "object" was seen. 2. Given that it's so repeatable, why DIDN'T they triangulate it to see where it was located? 3. Given that it's so repeatable, why DIDN'T they try to get closer to it? ---peter Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!iWarp.intel.com|imutm1.de.intel.com!gold.sub.org!roger From: roger@gold.sub.org (Roger Neumann) Subject: REQUEST: UFO GIF's Sender: bbs@gold.sub.org (Waffle Login) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1992 20:33:57 GMT Organization: Unix Mailbox Baldham Lines: 12 Hello World! Can anyone send me UFO Gif's or related "objects" Yours Roger -------------------------------------------------- -- roger@gold.sub.org (Roger Neumann) Unix Mailbox Baldham 08106-34593 PEP/V.32 08106-34692 HST Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu!cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!+ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10 billion watt laser Message-ID: <0eFQlaH0BwwG86fJ4Q@transarc.com> From: Chris_Hendy@transarc.com Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1992 08:49:42 -0400 Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Lines: 22 One of the investigatory news programs (Primetime Live, 20/20 - I can't recall which) did a piece on Pork barrel spending. One of the projects mentioned was a laser aimed up at the sky - its purpose was to attempt to extract energy from the magnetic field associated with the aurora borealis - hence the project name AURORA. Whether the powers that be actually named the project AURORA is, of course, conjecture - but it apparently exists. Chris ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris Hendy | Gulf Tower | Internet: chris@transarc.com DBA-DataBase Anarchist | 707 Grant Street | Voice: +1 412 338-4460 Transarc Corporation | Pittsburgh PA 15219 | FAX: +1 412 338-4404 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- It would be like a man, dying of thirst in the desert, begging for water and getting an increase in humidity in reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!att!fang!tarpit!peora!tous!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: Re: Closed Abductee conference Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1992 02:44:40 GMT Message-ID: <1992Jun22.024440.19352@bilver.uucp> Keywords: Abductee References: <1992Jun13.025503.19025@colorado.edu> Lines: 28 In article sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes: >In article <1992Jun13.025503.19025@colorado.edu> schiffd@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (David M. Schiff) writes: >>In article sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes: >>>The problem is, anyone attending the conference has to sign a "confidentiality >>>agreement." >> >>why? >> >Well, for one thing, it allows certain "abductionists" to say absolutely ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >ridiculous things without being held accountable for it later! :) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ My, my..sounds like someone else we know who spouts off about "the camera WAS moving"...someone who judged a video without even seeing it. :-) Are you _sure_ you're not kin to Dan "Potatoe" Quayle?? :-)) Don -- -* Don Allen *- // Only | Tavistock + Esalen = "New Age" Internet: dona@bilver.uucp \X/ Amiga | Rothschild + Rockefeller = FED UUCP: .uunet!peora!bilver!vicstoy!dona | UN + Maitreya = "Twilight Zone" "A democracy cannot be both ignorant and free" - Thomas Jefferson Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!att!fang!tarpit!peora!tous!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: Re: Closed Abductee conference Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1992 02:47:42 GMT Message-ID: <1992Jun22.024742.19464@bilver.uucp> Keywords: Abductee References: <1992Jun13.025503.19025@colorado.edu> Lines: 23 > >Does this mean that nothing like a proceedings of the conference will be >published? > >Is this the way scientific research is conducted, behind closed doors away >from critical scrutiny? >-- > >Anson Kennedy >Secretary of the Georgia Skeptics (but don't even THINK I speak for them!) > > "If I had been the Virgin Mary, I would have said 'No.'" > -Margaret "Stevie" Smith (1902-1971) > Well...there you go again Anson..you're thinking too clearly :-) -- -* Don Allen *- // Only | Tavistock + Esalen = "New Age" Internet: dona@bilver.uucp \X/ Amiga | Rothschild + Rockefeller = FED UUCP: .uunet!peora!bilver!vicstoy!dona | UN + Maitreya = "Twilight Zone" "A democracy cannot be both ignorant and free" - Thomas Jefferson Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!news-server.ecf!helios.physics.utoronto.ca!bullet.ecf.toronto.edu!rice From: rice@bullet.ecf.toronto.edu (RICE GEORGE MATTHEW) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Closed Abductee Conference Message-ID: Date: 22 Jun 92 15:36:25 GMT Expires: Mon, 22 Jun 1992 04:00:00 GMT References: <32918.1729220254@kcbbs.gen.nz> Sender: news@helios.physics.utoronto.ca (News Administrator) Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility Lines: 4 If the purpose of this conference was as you say 'to share information' then why don't you do just that. Matthew Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!milkwy.enet.dec.com!trandolph From: trandolph@milkwy.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10billion watt lasar Message-ID: <1992Jun22.160031.11999@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Sender: news@ryn.mro4.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: 22 JUN 92 11:54:11 Lines: 18 In article , payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes... >It is difficult to read text that wraps excessively. When I read from my >sparc2 at work, I can just widen the window. But my PC at home does not >allow for this. > >The discussion to date is fascinating, but hard to read. So I am >asking, politely, that you post in 80 columns. > >Please do not take this as a flame. > >Rich While we're at it, the number of people replying to 100-line posts and quoting the whole bloody 100 lines is beginning to get annoying. If I don't see anything new after about the 3rd screenfull, it's "n" time... -Tom R. milkwy.enet.dec.com!trandolph Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!milkwy.enet.dec.com!trandolph From: trandolph@milkwy.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) Subject: Re: GULFBREEZE: Don's GB Sighting Report Message-ID: <1992Jun22.161231.12455@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Sender: news@ryn.mro4.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: 22 JUN 92 12:00:11 Lines: 21 In article <9206211832.AA06663@xuucp.ch.apollo.hp.com>, nelson_p@APOLLO.HP.COM writes... > > 1. Lights in the sky DON'T mean anything. They don't even qualify > this sighting as a UFO sighting, since the "O" in UFO stands for > "object", and no "object" was seen. > > 2. Given that it's so repeatable, why DIDN'T they triangulate it > to see where it was located? > > 3. Given that it's so repeatable, why DIDN'T they try to get closer > to it? > >---peter 4. Why don't they set up some high power telescopes, if possible with image intensifiers and cameras attached. Video tape is nice, but too low-resoultion to be of much use in proving or disproving anything. By high power I mean focal length of 1000mm or more. -Tom R. milkwy.enet.dec.com!trandolph Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!convex!convex!swarren From: swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) Subject: Re: New Poll Message-ID: <1992Jun22.171343.7743@news.eng.convex.com> Keywords: Poll Sender: usenet@news.eng.convex.com (news access account) Nntp-Posting-Host: neptune.convex.com Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA References: <1992Jun19.222846.28156@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1992 17:13:43 GMT X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and not necessarily those of CONVEX. Lines: 64 In article <1992Jun19.222846.28156@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> wilbur@oyster.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) writes: >Here is a more all inclusive poll, thanks to some of your suggestions. [...] >1) Believe UFO's exist, and are vistiting and abducting. > >2) Believe UFO's exist, and are visiting. [...] You need to stop using this implicite equation that says UFO==flying saucer. Everyone involved in aviation believes in UFOs. UFOs are just flying objects that for any reason cannot be identified. This happens all of the time and has nothing to do with flying saucers. If you want questions that makes a little more sense, try something like this: 1) Believe that some UFO's are caused by non-human intelligent creatures that sometimes visit and abduct humans. 2) Believe that some UFO's are caused by non-human intelligent creatures that sometimes visit humans (but don't abduct). 3) Believe that extraterrestrial intelligent creatures exist somewhere, but they aren't visiting earth. ... 8) Tend to not believe in non-human intelligent creatures that sometimes visit humans, even though uninformed. 9) Do not believe in non-human intelligent creatures that sometimes visit humans, and am informed. etc. Here are some other questions you should try, to better classify your believers: You believe that some UFO's are caused by non-human intelligent creatures that sometimes visit humans, and you also: 12) Believe that the intelligent creatures are extraterrestrials (this is the plain vanilla ET theory). 13) Believe that the intelligent creatures are native to earth (or an alternate earth in another dimension), but hide somehow, either underground, or through some "interdimensional" travel (this is the fairies and elves theory). 14) Believe that the intelligent creatures are real, but are non-corporal (like ghosts). They may be good, bad, or in between (this is the newage ascended masters theory). 15) Believe that the intelligent creatures are real, are non-corporal, and are maleavalent. The extraterrestrial elements of visitations are deliberate deceptions by creatures best described as "demons" (this is the religious theory). Check all that apply. -- _. --Steve ._||__ Welcome to the World's First GaAs Supercomputer Warren v\ *| ----------------------------------------------- V Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10478 alt.alien.visitors:6572 sci.skeptic:26196 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <60919@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 92 10:23:54 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <60911@cup.portal.com> Lines: 4 I spelled encourage with an i (incourage). Sorry about that. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!anson From: anson@netcom.com (Anson Kennedy) Subject: Re: Closed Abductee conference Message-ID: Date: Mon, 22 Jun 92 17:02:32 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Keywords: Abductee References: <1992Jun13.025503.19025@colorado.edu> <1992Jun22.024742.19464@bilver.uucp> Lines: 29 dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes: [Quote of my cogent and succinct criticism of the secrecy surrounding the "Abduction Study Confernce AT MIT" (but NOT sponsored BY MIT) deleted...] >Well...there you go again Anson..you're thinking too clearly :-) If clear thinking is a crime, then I am guilty! ;-) But seriously, if abduction research is going even *more* underground, then it is becoming more and more like alchemy in the Middle Ages. Every researcher will have his own secret base of knowledge and will keep it under as much control as possible to avoid anyone else attaining the Philosopher's Stone of abduction research (whatever *that* turns out to be). I find it rather disgusting. It does nothing to garner abductionists the legitimacy they so desperately seem to crave and *does* tend to give the impression that even *they* feel the subject isn't as valid as they want us to believe. End of sermon. :-) -- Anson Kennedy anson@netcom.com Secretary of the Georgia Skeptics (but don't even THINK I speak for them!) "If you don't watch the violence, \ "If I had been the Virgin Mary, you'll never get desensitized to it." \ I would have said 'No.'" -Bart Simpson \ -Margaret "Stevie" Smith (1902-1971) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Subject: Re: Closed Abductee Conference Message-ID: Date: Mon, 22 Jun 92 17:28:41 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <32918.1729220254@kcbbs.gen.nz> Lines: 53 In article <32918.1729220254@kcbbs.gen.nz> Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton) writes: >sheaffer@netcom.com(Robert Sheaffer) 19Jun92 174121GMT types >As the only representitive of skeptic-dom > >Well are you going to blab all on any wild & wolly doings down(or is >that up) at MIT? No, I'll wait for others to do that! I understand that process has already started! :) >What would happen if you did tell all you know of the closed door doings?. They greys would come along one night to collect involuntary sperm samples. >I read it was done the way it was to protect possible loss of jobs of >attendees.If so would that be appropro or would the civil liberties >brigade & all be pouncing on employees for unconstitutional actions?. Somehow I can't believe this. Maybe some of the 'abductees' don't want their names known, but then, they were anonymous even at the conference. Most of the researchers' names have ALREADY appeared in many, many UFO publications. > >Well if your skeptical of these requirements did you confront Pritchard >& Co for a thoroughful explanation or would that be beyond the pale?. Oh, I had some very nice discussions with Pritchard, although not about the conference itself, more on 'general UFOlogy.' >& what about those proceedings?.When & where are they due?. > I don't know, you'd have to ask Pritchard. It will be *at least* several more months. I don't think that the publishing arrangements have even been firmed up yet. -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the table like a card cheat." - Martin Gardner (writing in "Free Inquiry", Spring, 1992) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10billion watt lasar Message-ID: Date: Mon, 22 Jun 92 17:35:48 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1992Jun18.233107.22814@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <1992Jun20.050334.6924@eskimo.celestial.com> Keywords: Aurora Lines: 34 In article <1992Jun20.050334.6924@eskimo.celestial.com> nanook@eskimo.celestial.com (Robert Dinse) writes: >In article <1992Jun18.233107.22814@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, wilbur@tuna.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) writes: >> >> As soon as I described what occurred, his eyes fixed on me and said, " I know >> what it was that shot up...a lasar." I said, "A lasar? How do you know that?" >> He replied: "They got a lasar that shoots up into space. I've seen actual >> >> At Los Alamos National Laboratory is a 20 BILLION WATT LASAR!!! > > A 20 Gw LASER maybe, but LASAR never... > > L)ight > A)mplification by > S)timulated > E)mission of > R)adiation > And in addition to that 20 Gw Lasar thay have one Larged-Mouthed Lazar, who has been spewing out "secrets" of the supposed "government saucers"..... -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the table like a card cheat." - Martin Gardner (writing in "Free Inquiry", Spring, 1992) Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!claris!apple!selway.umt.edu!cs000rdw From: cs000rdw@selway.umt.edu (Richard D Warner) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10billion watt lasar Summary: skeptical Keywords: Aurora Message-ID: <1992Jun22.180452.17178@selway.umt.edu> Date: 22 Jun 92 18:04:52 GMT References: <1992Jun18.233107.22814@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <1992Jun19.143442.3361@arizona.edu> Distribution: world,local Organization: University of Montana Lines: 12 I'm skeptical that they are into gigawatt lasers yet. I've seen footage of military lasers in the thousands of watts. The discussion was on how impracticle they are to shoot through an atmosphere. There has to be a terrific wind, because otherwise the air heats up too much and causes the beam to get wider and loose its intensity. Also, they won't shoot through clouds that well. Lastly, I want to say that wasn't a laser beam on the video. I wish more people had seen it first hand. For one, you wouldn't be able to see a laser beam going through vacant space, and for another, it wasn't a beam at all - it was closer to a high-speed comet. Rich Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!convex!convex!swarren From: swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10billion watt lasar Message-ID: <1992Jun22.221912.13759@news.eng.convex.com> Keywords: Aurora Sender: usenet@news.eng.convex.com (news access account) Nntp-Posting-Host: neptune.convex.com Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA References: <1992Jun18.233107.22814@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <1992Jun19.143442.3361@arizona.edu> <1992Jun22.180452.17178@selway.umt.edu> Distribution: world,local Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1992 22:19:12 GMT X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and not necessarily those of CONVEX. Lines: 26 In article <1992Jun22.180452.17178@selway.umt.edu> cs000rdw@selway.umt.edu (Richard D Warner) writes: > > I'm skeptical that they are into gigawatt lasers yet. I've seen >footage of military lasers in the thousands of watts. The discussion was >on how impracticle they are to shoot through an atmosphere. There has to >be a terrific wind, because otherwise the air heats up too much and causes Yes, but there are some approaches that have mitigated this effect. One approach is to pulse the beam in synchronization with the expansion of the air. I don't know the details of how this was done, but I remember that there was an increase in the density of energy that could successfully be transmitted through the atmosphere when the beam was pulsed at the correct frequency. As far as using lasers for weapons, at least one missile has been shot down with a laser. I remember reading the article describing the test back when I was a research assistant for the SDI lab at UTA (~5 years ago). The article talked about defenses against lasers such as using reflective coatings and spinning the missile rapidly to diffuse the heat over a larger area. The counter tactic was to make the pulses shorter and more energetic. -- _. --Steve ._||__ Welcome to the World's First GaAs Supercomputer Warren v\ *| ----------------------------------------------- V Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles Message-ID: <60930@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 92 16:00:49 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <1992Jun18.101508.10278@anasaz> Lines: 3 If all goes well I hope to post something from a person called Shaari about crop circles. John Winston. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: REQUEST: Roswell information; and how to get more Message-ID: <60931@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 92 16:13:27 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <20JUN199221455246@zeus.tamu.edu> Lines: 11 While I was in the Press and Speakers line to sign up for the Whole Life Expo this summer Stanton Freedman was in front of me. I had done an interview with him before and he was going to do his talk that he normally does at these shows. We exchanged a few words and in his introductory lecture he was talking about his Roswell investigations. He plans to bring out a book on that subject this summer. If a person really is serious about this subject he should talk with Harley Byrd the nephew of Admiral Byrds the famous explorer. Harley was in the service at the time and saw the bodies and investigated the crash for the government. I video taped a conversation with Mr. H. Byrd hast summer. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!wupost!uwm.edu!linac!tellab5!jcj From: jcj@tellabs.com (J. Johnson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re^2: GULFBREEZE: Don's GB Sighting Report Message-ID: <1992Jun22.174147.6563@tellab5.tellabs.com> Date: 22 Jun 92 17:41:47 GMT Article-I.D.: tellab5.1992Jun22.174147.6563 References: <1992Jun18.003218.7153@bilver.uucp> <1992Jun18.142442.13821@m.cs.uiuc.edu> <1992Jun19.162403.20610@ccu.umanitoba.ca> Sender: news@tellab5.tellabs.com (News) Organization: Huh? Lines: 8 Nntp-Posting-Host: sunhc In article <1992Jun19.162403.20610@ccu.umanitoba.ca> rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Chris Rutkowski) writes: >... >I would suggest a field trip consisting of, perhaps, Maccabee, Greer, >Klass and Overall. (And maybe a referee!) ... Alright, I'll volunteer to ref, but I get to bring my 9mm with me -). -- jcj@tellabs.com Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!metro!cluster!swift!peg!qolight From: qolight@peg.pegasus.oz.au Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: GULFBREEZE: Don's GB Sighting Repor Message-ID: <422800031@peg> Date: 23 Jun 92 05:34:00 GMT References: <10704705@1992Jun18.003218.7153@bilver.uuc> Lines: 13 Nf-ID: #R:1992Jun18.003218.7153@bilver.uuc:-1070470575:peg:422800031:000:419 Nf-From: peg.pegasus.oz.au!qolight Jun 23 00:34:00 1992 Hello Chris Rutkowski.... Look bloke...it would be great for you to reply to the original msg... YET...do you have to "qoute" the enitre message? It get's really boring not to mention the extra on-line time we have to pay for when any of you blokes go about taking out everyline of the msg or msg's in the thread.... SUGGESTION....LET'S CUT OUT THE REDUNDANT BIT'S AND MOVE ON!!! Regards...(No Fancy sig's) Photon Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!starfish.cps.msu.edu!wilbur From: wilbur@starfish.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10billion watt lasar Keywords: Aurora Message-ID: <1992Jun23.021156.24350@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Date: 23 Jun 92 02:11:56 GMT References: <1992Jun18.233107.22814@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <1992Jun20.050334.6924@eskimo.celestial.com> <1992Jun20.223136.19526@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Sender: news@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University Lines: 36 In article , payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes: |> In article <1992Jun20.223136.19526@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> wilbur@tuna.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) writes: |> > |> >What a idiot, I knew the spelling and acronym...but some how f'ed the |> >spelling up |> >every time... Don't ask me how. |> > |> >Brick |> |> |> It is difficult to read text that wraps excessively. When I read from my |> sparc2 at work, I can just widen the window. But my PC at home does not |> allow for this. |> |> The discussion to date is fascinating, but hard to read. So I am |> asking, politely, that you post in 80 columns. |> |> When I gain some confidence in Windows or OS2, and buy one, this may not |> be a problem. Better yet, when Sun releases S5V4 for DOS, I may buy that. |> But like the 64K max for postings, it is a better idea to post in a format |> that the general audience can display. |> |> Please do not take this as a flame. |> |> Rich |> |> payner@netcom.com |> |> Sorry. It's just the program that I use for News. It is an X-windows environment and it automatically linefeeds. Apparently, it actually doesn't place a line feed char in the text though..eh? Anyone else using "xrn" have this problem? Brick Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!starfish.cps.msu.edu!wilbur From: wilbur@starfish.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10billion watt lasar Keywords: Aurora Message-ID: <1992Jun23.021452.24518@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Date: 23 Jun 92 02:14:52 GMT References: <1992Jun18.233107.22814@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <1992Jun20.050334.6924@eskimo.celestial.com> <1992Jun20.223136.19526@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <1992Jun21.160623.4640@uwm.edu> Sender: news@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University Lines: 11 In article <1992Jun21.160623.4640@uwm.edu>, markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark William Hopkins) writes: |> (His persistent use of the "word" LASAR) |> In article <1992Jun20.223136.19526@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> wilbur@tuna.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) writes: |> >What a idiot, I knew the spelling and acronym...but some how f'ed the spelling up |> >every time... Don't ask me how. |> |> Have you encountered your future self engaged in time travel lately? Yeah, that must be it...I shot myself in the head in the future and now in the past I am having problems....or something like that. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!starfish.cps.msu.edu!wilbur From: wilbur@starfish.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10 billion watt laser Message-ID: <1992Jun23.022304.25464@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Date: 23 Jun 92 02:23:04 GMT References: <0eFQlaH0BwwG86fJ4Q@transarc.com> Sender: news@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University Lines: 36 In article <0eFQlaH0BwwG86fJ4Q@transarc.com>, Chris_Hendy@transarc.com writes: |> |> One of the investigatory news programs (Primetime Live, 20/20 - I can't recall |> which) did a piece on Pork barrel spending. One of the projects mentioned |> was a laser aimed up at the sky - its purpose was to attempt to extract |> energy from the magnetic field associated with the aurora borealis - hence |> the project name AURORA. |> |> Whether the powers that be actually named the project AURORA is, of course, |> conjecture - but it apparently exists. |> |> Chris |> |> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- |> Chris Hendy | Gulf Tower | Internet: chris@transarc.com |> DBA-DataBase Anarchist | 707 Grant Street | Voice: +1 412 338-4460 |> Transarc Corporation | Pittsburgh PA 15219 | FAX: +1 412 338-4404 |> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- |> It would be like a man, dying of thirst in the desert, begging for water |> and getting an increase in humidity in reply. |> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- |> |> I'm no expert in Laser's, but how the heck can you extract energy with a laser? How can you "suck up energy" with a beam of light that "shoots out energy"? Anyone a laser expert out there? Could a 10 Gw laser actually have enough energy to destroy something in the atmosphere? I know that 10 billion of anything could destroy anything. :) Brick Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!deakin.OZ.AU!fulcrum.oz.au!steve From: steve@fulcrum.oz.au (Steve Taylor) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10 billion watt laser Message-ID: <1992Jun23.032944.759@fulcrum.oz.au> Date: 23 Jun 92 03:29:44 GMT References: <0eFQlaH0BwwG86fJ4Q@transarc.com> Organization: The Fulcrum Consulting Group Lines: 15 In <0eFQlaH0BwwG86fJ4Q@transarc.com> Chris_Hendy@transarc.com writes: >One of the investigatory news programs (Primetime Live, 20/20 - I can't recall >which) did a piece on Pork barrel spending. One of the projects mentioned >was a laser aimed up at the sky - its purpose was to attempt to extract >energy from the magnetic field associated with the aurora borealis - hence >the project name AURORA. A giant laser to suck energy out of the earths magnetic field? This *must* be alt.alien.visitors! Steve Xref: news.uiowa.edu sci.skeptic:26229 alt.alien.visitors:6586 Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd2.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@nntpd2.enet.dec.com (Steve Timpson) Subject: Re: Alien/U.S. Gov't Collusion Message-ID: <1992Jun23.122942.29642@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Sender: usenet@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation References: Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1992 13:29:07 GMT Lines: 28 In article , anson@netcom.com (Anson Kennedy) writes... >Below is the text of a flyer someone sent me detailing the latest alien/ >U.S. government collusion theory. It is apparently a compilation of Bill >Coooper's stuff with a few Lear tidbits thrown in for spice. The flyer >itself did not name the original source for this stuff, so if anyone has >info on just *who* put out this flyer, I'd appreciate it if you'd let me >know. > >BEGIN FLYER > > THIS INFORMATION COULD SAVE YOUR LIFE AND FREEDOM > ....[drival deleted].... Big YAWN! The paranoic level of this posting is so great that I would have to believe that Gary Stollman posted this. Hey Gary when are you going to repost your INVASION note again. With the exception of the above drival this file is getting dry. Steve Food_for_the_Greys Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!wellison From: wellison@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10 billion watt laser Message-ID: <1992Jun23.085500.40968@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> Date: 23 Jun 92 08:54:56 CDT Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services Lines: 51 > > I'm skeptical that they are into gigawatt lasers yet. I've seen >footage of military lasers in the thousands of watts. The discussion was >on how impracticle they are to shoot through an atmosphere. There has to >be a terrific wind, because otherwise the air heats up too much and causes There is a laser sitting at Los Alimos (sp?) called 'SHIVA'. It is three HUGE CO2 lasers pulsed together that produces 24 terawatts (That's trillion guys, not billion) ! ! It produces this amount of power over a period of about 40 nanoseconds (40 billionths of a second) It's original purpose was to research fusion reactions. I have also heard of tabletop (large table ;-) Exicmer lasers that produce pulsed gigawatt beams. However, to date the largest CW laser, which again is a CO2, produces about 100KW. Lasers for weaponry though is another story. People think of a laser, they tend to imagine good guys and bad guys duking it out in little spaceships in a galaxie far, far away, thanks to the over imaginitive movie producers. Real lasers are far less destructive. It is true that the military has produced a laser that could be used as a missile killer (a hydrogen-floride dynamic gas laser) and it is small enough to fit into a converted KC-135. But one big problem exist with using lasers in the atmosphere. The beam is dispersed by particles (I.E., smoke, water, dust, ect.) as it fired from the laser head. The effective range is reduced the further the beam goes. In space, they would be ideal, as nothing is in the way to attenuate the beam, which is why the SDI guy's thought they would make good weapons. But a high powered laser is a power hog. One mode of thought that was going around the SDI circles for a while was using a particle beam/laser beam combination. The idea was to fire a powerful particle beam through the atmosphere then follow it a few nanoseconds later by a powerful laser beam. The idea was that the particle beam would blast a hole for the laser beam. Good idea, except for one small problem. Power ! ! The particle beam would take an accelerator that would produce several TEV (Trillion Electron Volts) and would be huge. Next, the laser would also be huge. The optics and boresighting of the laser to the particle beam was an engineering nightmare. Cost was another big factor. Either device, the particle beam or the laser, was considered a weapon in it's own right because of the power they produced. But what is on the drawing boards in some little secret SDI lab and may even be working isn't know by the general public, so I think it may be possible that they have overcome the engineering problems with VERY large lasers. One canidate is the X-ray laser. Yes, such a device does exist, but most of the design of it the military classified. But it is general knowledge in laser circles that one way to build an X-ray laser was to use a hydrogen bomb as the laser pump. By running the laser cavity around the inside of a hydrogen bomb, when it exploded, the radiation produced by it, gamma and X-rays, would be focused through the cavity and produce an increadeably powerful laser beam, for about a trillionth of a second, before it was vaporized. Not very cost effective though ;-) So the designers went on to more conservitive means of producing it. I wish I could get my hands on the info of how they are planning to do it now, but no such luck. But lasers can do some pretty amazing things and don't be to surprised at what may lurk behind some secret lab's door ;-) -=-=- Wes =-=-= Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!nstar!towers!npal!dcook From: dcook@npal.rn.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Miller Lite Aliens Message-ID: <6524@npal.rn.com> Date: 22 Jun 92 10:34:15 GMT Organization: PalNet -- Indianapolis, Indiana Lines: 12 A new Miller Lite Beer commercial shows a house and a dog. A cooler opens and cans of beer fly out the door and into a field. The dog follows. In the field are TONS of 'near-grey' aliens, all dancing and drinking Miller Lite beer... some with 'wigs' and 'clothes'. At the end of the commerical, a B&W shot of a cameraman talking about the 'new crop circles' which appears to be the word 'Lite' spelled out in a field, by the 'greys'. Are we getting this close to the 'invasion'? :-) -- Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!news2me.ebay.sun.com!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr From: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: UFOs and The Secret Govt (was ANNOUNCEMENT...) Date: 22 Jun 1992 03:15:06 GMT Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Lines: 68 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <3S9371L@zelator.in-berlin.de> Reply-To: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com This is a partial summary of the meeting of 06/20/92 at the Berkeley Conference Center in Berkeley, California, sponsored by the 2020 Group. There were perhaps 100 attendees. The first part of the meeting, from about 10:00 AM to about 1:30 PM, was a summary of the UFO subject, including much of the reported material on things like Roswell, alien abductions, etc. Reasonably well done. Most of the new material consisted of audiotapes of interviews with witnesses who were not identified but who sounded convincing, about the involvement of relatives in government coverup of its relationship and activities involving UFOs and aliens. The first was with the alleged "husband of the daughter-in-law of a recently deceased high NASA official", both of whom were not identified. There was a reference to the son of Gen. Nathan Twining perhaps offering testimony in the future to the effect that his father was on the scene at Roswell and had a direct telepathic contact with one of the injured aliens. The most riveting testimony was provided by a young lady named Wendy (last name withheld), who reported that she had had repeated visits from aliens in her home, and that after she attempted to report this incident to government authorities, she was harassed, kidnapped, intimidated, and drugged by what appeared to be US government military types. On the skeptical side one would have to point out that identities were withheld, so that we have only verbal testimony of anonymous persons (except for Wendy, who was physically present). No physical evidence. One factor that I noted was that the staging of the entire event was suspiciously like a religious revival meeting. Very polished, carefully planned, on schedule, with fairly high production values. On the other hand, if it were primarily a money-making scheme, then the price of admission ($25 in advance, $35 at the door) plus revenue on books, pamphlets, etc., were hardly enough to do much more than cover costs, which speaks to the credibility of the sponsors. Could this be a way to hook followers for future fleecing? Any such effort should be approached with some skepticism, although nothing in the messages offered were particularly extreme or on the fringe as UFO gatherings go, unless you would consider all suggestions of government collusion with aliens for no good purpose to be such. The basic message, that there may be a sinister conspiracy of an international elite against the bulk of humanity, somehow involving aliens, and that we (the non-elite) need to "take back our world" sound disturbingly like the exhortations of revolutionaries who want to use popular discontent to seize power (and then perhaps abuse it themselves). Of course, they may also be right, and entirely well-intentioned. What speaks well of them is the way they encouraged members of the audience to act indepenently of them to uncover the truth and take back control of the reins of power. A common ploy of revolutionaries, but also what one would expect of sincere reformers. Interesting, but like so much else in this field, disturbingly elusive and insubstantial. --- jdr@starflight.corp.sun.com, starflt@uunet.uu.net Jon Roland Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A, Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!news2me.ebay.sun.com!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr From: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party Date: 22 Jun 1992 04:10:37 GMT Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Lines: 80 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: Reply-To: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com In article 92Jun18113416@onion.cmu.edu, gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston) writes: > There is NO scientifically valid evidence, what-so-ever, to suggest > that our planet has been visited by extra-terrestrial beings. Does > this mean that I believe that we are the only sentient race in the > universe. NO! The two are quite unrelated. However, I will state > that we are probably the only sentient race within our galaxy (or > maybe even with the local galactic cluster), because otherwise we > should have already seen clear evidence of their presense. Why? > Because they might be a billion years ahead of us... plenty of time to > have taken over all planets that are suitable to their needs. Well, there is no publicly-accessible evidence. That there may be evidence that is being withheld from most of the scientific community is one of the principal themes of this subject. I have argued in previous postings that an abundance of spacefaring species would not necessarily be clearly evident. Many tend to assume without thinking that long-duration civilizations would live on the surfaces of planets the way we do, but an analysis of the physical requirements of survival over periods of more than a few thousand years indicates that such civilizations would have to house themselves and their economic activities in cities designed and operated like multigeneration starships, compact, sealed, self-sufficient, and probably sited underground. If they did not discover faster-than-light propulsion, they could still explore the galaxy, or even travel to other galaxies, in such starships, but when they arrived at planets like ours, their economies and their cultures would favor underground sites for their cities. As it turns out, the best places in the Universe for life to flourish (although not to first appear) are the interiors of planetary bodies that contain enough radioisotopes to maintain a long-duration thermal gradient between their molten interiors and their surfaces, not the surfaces of planets, or asteroids in deep space. Planetary interiors offer many advantages besides a source of long-lasting energy: protection from radiation, from weathering and corrosion, and from the temptation to waste scarce materials by using them in ways that risk their loss. We need posit only one other technology to account for not seeing clear evidence of their presence: the ability to interpenetrate matter. This could involve some kind of cross-plane or wormhole physics, but it is also possible that it could be done using more conventional physics through a process I call bosonic propulsion, in which an entire vehicle would be put into a bosonic state, like the Cooper pairs of electrons in superconductivity, so that they could pass between their underground cities and outer space without having to have access ports through the ground, and, indeed, to be invisible while traveling in that mode. Such a life-style would probably leave no trace on the surfaces of the planets they inhabit, unless there was some side-effect like crop circles. We could have a million underground alien cities, each housing a million aliens, and never know it if they chose not to reveal themselves. They could have been here for billions of years. If one looks at the physics and economics of long-duration civiliza- tions, then it becomes more difficult to explain the absence of such underground cities than their presence. As for why none of the alien races that might inhabit our planet choose to reveal themselves to us, why do the passengers and crew of a cruise ship not reveal themselves to the barnacles infesting the ship's hull. Unless and until we become to problem to them, we are likely to be ignored. And that may be the hardest thing to take -- that we are simply too insignificant to merit contact, even though we live only a few kilometers away. If this scenario is valid, then it hardly makes sense to call the others "aliens" or "visitors". They have have been here a lot longer than we have, and may call Earth home. --- jdr@starflight.corp.sun.com, starflt@uunet.uu.net Jon Roland Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A, Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!ubc-cs!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani From: spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and The Secret Govt (was ANNOUNCEMENT...) Message-ID: <1992Jun23.191652.29736@mprgate.mpr.ca> Date: 23 Jun 92 19:16:52 GMT References: <3S9371L@zelator.in-berlin.de> Sender: news@mprgate.mpr.ca Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada Lines: 27 In article , jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) writes: |> This is a partial summary of the meeting of 06/20/92 at the Berkeley |> Conference Center in Berkeley, California, sponsored by the 2020 Group. |> There were perhaps 100 attendees. Thanks for posting the article. Does anyone have any more information on the 2020 group? [...] |> --- |> |> jdr@starflight.corp.sun.com, starflt@uunet.uu.net |> Jon Roland |> Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A, |> Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141 |> -- *********************************************************************** | Leonard E. Spani | //!?\\ | (disclaimer-p) | | spani@mprgate.mpr.ca | \\?!// | t | *********************************************************************** Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!apsicc.aps.edu!jim From: jim@apsicc.aps.edu (frost...) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10billion watt lasar Summary: skeptical Keywords: Aurora Message-ID: <23JUN199213381790@apsicc.aps.edu> Date: 23 Jun 92 20:38:00 GMT Article-I.D.: apsicc.23JUN199213381790 References: <1992Jun18.233107.22814@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <1992Jun19.143442.3361@arizona.edu> <1992Jun22.180452.17178@selway.umt.edu> Distribution: world,local Organization: Albuquerque Public Schools - Career Enrichment Center Lines: 41 News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 In article <1992Jun22.180452.17178@selway.umt.edu>, cs000rdw@selway.umt.edu (Richard D Warner) writes... > > I'm skeptical that they are into gigawatt lasers yet. I've seen Los Alamos is using Lasers of that range and so is its' cooresponding site in California but only in *MASSIVE* units that are being used for fusion power research. You can't take one of these babies out and swing it around for aiming. >footage of military lasers in the thousands of watts. The discussion was >on how impracticle they are to shoot through an atmosphere. There has to >be a terrific wind, because otherwise the air heats up too much and causes >the beam to get wider and loose its intensity. Also, they won't shoot The cloud part I would tend to agree with for the most part but shooting up is a lot easier than shooting a few miles along the ground. The air going up gets geometrically thinner as you go higher and there is less effect on the beam all the time. The Sandia Labs people here in Albuquerque just anounced this last fall that they were using a laser to allign a multiple mirror array by aiming the laser along the line of sight of the mirrors and then reading the turbulence it indicated and making adjustments to the mirrors. The pro- posed use was for an SDI project to assure the best continuity of the beam. Incidentally, at White Sands Missle Range in New Mexico last year a laser was used to blow a stationary missle, which was several feet in diameter, apart. The footage on this made the news and was rather impressive. >through clouds that well. Lastly, I want to say that wasn't a laser beam >on the video. I wish more people had seen it first hand. For one, you >wouldn't be able to see a laser beam going through vacant space, and for >another, it wasn't a beam at all - it was closer to a high-speed comet. On this we are in accord. The beam from any Laser capable of doing damage to anything would be very narrow in nature and of such short duration that it would be unlikely to ever show up in normal camera footage. > >Rich ====================================================================== We are rapidly ascending through prosperity to poverty... Twain Internet: jim@apsicc.aps.edu Albuquerque Public Schools - Instructional System Manager ====================================================================== Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!hri.com!ukma!widener!gvls1!tredysvr!cellar!revpk From: revpk@cellar.org (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10billion watt lasar Keywords: Aurora Message-ID: Date: 23 Jun 92 19:25:47 GMT Article-I.D.: cellar.oH7TmB3w164w References: Sender: bbs@cellar.org (The Cellar BBS) Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system Lines: 22 sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes: > In article <1992Jun20.050334.6924@eskimo.celestial.com> nanook@eskimo.celesti > >In article <1992Jun18.233107.22814@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, wilbur@tuna.cps.msu. > >> > >> As soon as I described what occurred, his eyes fixed on me and said, " I > >> what it was that shot up...a lasar." I said, "A lasar? How do you know t > >> He replied: "They got a lasar that shoots up into space. I've seen actual > >> > >> At Los Alamos National Laboratory is a 20 BILLION WATT LASAR!!! > And in addition to that 20 Gw Lasar thay have one Larged-Mouthed Lazar, who > has been spewing out "secrets" of the supposed "government saucers"..... > -- I also hear that they're working on a rapid-fire, mobile device to be deployed in Hollywood. They're calling it the "Swifty" Lazar... Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano revpk@cellar.org New Sig File Under Construction-- Light and Compact for your Usenet Pleasure. "The recent problem with the satellite retrieval managed to prove one thing; DeVries graduates really _do_ work for NASA." Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!psinntp!cubtosys!news From: Andrew Cohen Subject: Re: Alien/U.S. Gov't Collusion Organization: Cubic Toll Systems, Inc. Date: Tue, 23 Jun 92 11:20:11 GMT Message-ID: <1992Jun23.112011.10577@cubic.com> X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1a2 References: Sender: news@cubic.com Nntp-Posting-Host: andyc.cubic.com Lines: 16 > > Communion, by Whitley Strieber, Wm. Morrow Pub. N.Y. > My signature says it all. As far as this _BS_ goes, sounds alot like the miniseries "V" (isitors). As far as Communion and Strieber go, it seems that he always finds himself involved in the latest unprovable and subjective scandal, as long as it sells books and movie rights. Anyone who cites him destroys their credibility. Torch-On! Cut the crap. Show me the proof. Torch-Off! __________________________________________________________________________ ____^____ So they have gray skin, big almond eyes, and little noses! /__/___\__\ Just remember to ask what method of propulsion they use. _/_ \___/ _\_ If they seem hesitant, offer them some peanuts. - AJ Cohen Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!comp.vuw.ac.nz!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!mercury!nacjack!Peter.David Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Crop Circles in Canterby Message-ID: <1778fe4a@nacjack.gen.nz> From: Peter.David@p0.f140.n772.z3.fido.nacjack.gen.nz (Peter David) Date: 23 Jun 92 22:23:06 GMT Organization: Infoboard BBS - Auckland - (09) 833-8788 - In-Reply-To: Tom.Van.Flandern@p0.f0.n0.z0.fido.nacjack.gen.nz (Tom Van Flandern) Lines: 30 TVF=8>FROM metares@well.sf.ca.us TVF=8>TO All TVF=8>[Must quote FROM address as TO: on 1st line of email replies] TVF=8>Earlier, I wrote: TVF=8>>> Am I describing the same picture you saw? -|Tom|- TVF=8>the picture with its lead story. Thirdly, I edit a small newsletter, the TVF=8>Meta Research Bulletin [P.O. Box 15186, Chevy Chase, MD 20815], which has TVF=8> I don't know anything about posting a scanned copy to a newsgroup. TVF=8>you want to E-mail me directions, I'm willing to experiment. -|Tom|- TVF=8>-- TVF=8>Tom Van Flandern / Washington, DC / metares@well.sf.ca.us TVF=8>Meta Research was founded to foster research into ideas not otherwise TVF=8>supported because they conflict with mainstream theories in Astronomy. Hi Tom just thought I would mention since you do reasearch and I take an interest on a hobby level of this phenomonon. Do you have anything on the Crop Circles that croppped up reportedly in the Canterbury area of New Zealand? I am in Auckland and it seems quiet here for the most part but I am starting to branch out. There is an author who lived here in the area a Bruce Cathie , a retired airline pilot who wrote a couple books on grid lines. I have not had a chance to touch base with him though its possible.Anyway if you have anything on this area I could research for you let me know.By for now. ___ * SLMR 2.0 * This tagline is umop apisdn Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!comp.vuw.ac.nz!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!mercury!nacjack!Peter.David Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Caution for UFO Investig Message-ID: <177901d0@nacjack.gen.nz> From: Peter.David@p0.f140.n772.z3.fido.nacjack.gen.nz (Peter David) Date: 23 Jun 92 22:38:08 GMT Organization: Infoboard BBS - Auckland - (09) 833-8788 - In-Reply-To: Jon.Roland@p0.f0.n0.z0.fido.nacjack.gen.nz (Jon Roland) Lines: 71 JR=8>FROM jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM JR=8>TO All JR=8>[Must quote FROM address as TO: on 1st line of email replies] JR=8>CAUTION JR=8>for UFO Investigators JR=8>Copyright (c) 1991 Jon Roland JR=8>There is an old saying, "Be careful what JR=8>you ask for. You might get it." It applies to JR=8>UFO investigators, most of whom are JR=8>motivated to try to find out what is behind JR=8>what so many people are reporting by a JR=8>mixture of curiosity, fear, and a nagging JR=8>suspicion that we are not being told JR=8>something that we have a right to know. The JR=8>UFO mystery has emerged as perhaps the JR=8>major unsolved mystery of our time that is JR=8>not being openly researched by organized, JR=8>governmentally supported science. JR=8>One family of hypotheses concerning this JR=8>subject, first advanced by Charles Fort, one JR=8>version of which I have discussed elsewhere JR=8>(see "Speculations on UFO Technology and JR=8>Operations"), supposes that at least one, and JR=8>perhaps many, alien races are based in the JR=8>vicinity of Earth, perhaps underground, and JR=8>have been for a long time; and that lifeforms JR=8>on the surface of Earth, including ourselves, JR=8>are the subject of long-term study and JR=8>perhaps experimentation by at least one of JR=8>those races. JR=8>The importance of this hypothesis is that, if JR=8>valid, it could be dangerous to verify it, JR=8>either for the investigator and his friends, or JR=8>even for humanity as a whole. JR=8>Much speculation on alien visitors tends to JR=8>suppose that they are occasional visitors to JR=8>Earth, based elsewhere, who regard us as JR=8>less developed than themselves, but who still JR=8>respect us as fellow sentients that may JR=8>someday join them among the family of JR=8>spacefaring civilizations. This may be JR=8>wishful thinking, a projection of our JR=8>attitudes toward primitive peoples in recent JR=8>history. We must consider the possibility JR=8>that they rather regard us as we regard JR=8>laboratory rats, with little or no sympathy, JR=8>as things which exist for their edification or JR=8>amusement, and which they are prepared to JR=8>manipulate or terminate when it suits their JR=8>purposes to do so. JR=8>If their purposes are scientific, then our JR=8>continued existence may depend on us JR=8>remaining interesting to their scientific JR=8>studies. JR=8>--- oFM v2.0 JR=8> * Origin: Malleus Maleficarum - Nil Mortifi Sine Lucre (199:310/1.0) Well done lets hear more from you. You give this conference area a healthy refreshing outlook with you prudence and pointed observation to this subject. Thanks . Bye . ___ * SLMR 2.0 * hAS ANYONE SEEN MY cAPSLOCK KEY? Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!comp.vuw.ac.nz!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!mercury!nacjack!Peter.Caffell Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Blackbird SR-71 Message-ID: <1776f630@nacjack.gen.nz> From: Peter.Caffell@p0.f140.n772.z3.fido.nacjack.gen.nz (Peter Caffell) Date: 22 Jun 92 9:24:00 GMT Organization: Infoboard BBS - Auckland - (09) 833-8788 - In-Reply-To: Charles.Mcgrew@p0.f0.n0.z0.fido.nacjack.gen.nz (Charles Mcgrew) Lines: 21 |CM> "In July 1976 an SR-71 set an absolute and class world speed | |CM>record of 2,193.6 miles an hour at an altitude record for level flight | |CM>of 85,069 feet. Another dashed from New York to London in less than | |CM>two hours. This has allowed the Strategic Air Command, which operates | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If the SR-71 was so secret up until it was made public in 1990. How come there is film footage of it in films dateing back to 1981. The film "The Man Who Saw Tomorrow" contains footage of the SR-71 taking off. Peter. ___ X MegaMail 2.1b #0: Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10488 sci.skeptic:26260 alt.alien.visitors:6598 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The Only Lesson There Is - Pleiadians 8 Message-ID: <60985@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 92 19:11:35 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <60637@cup.portal.com> Lines: 7 Don, I read about you starting the church called the Pleiadian Group in our posting. If your serious about this then I's like to join. If your not serious and it's like Berney Ward's church on KGO called the Church of the Holy Donut then sign me up also. I hope it cost less than Silvia Brown's church ($5,000). Please put me on the list and give me a number if you have any left. That's all for now. John Winston. I's should be spelled I'd. Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10489 alt.alien.visitors:6599 sci.skeptic:26262 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <60987@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 92 19:21:00 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 6 Dear Arasia I read your posting and it makes a lot of sense to me. I put a letter in the mail to get more information from your group. This thursday I will be having a -- --- and I will be having people on who are aware that they lived some past lives on other planets. We'll see how it comes out. That's all folks. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: NASA footage: 10billion watt lasar Message-ID: <7arlf!=.payner@netcom.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 01:42:13 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1992Jun20.223136.19526@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <1992Jun23.021156.24350@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Keywords: Aurora Lines: 45 In article <1992Jun23.021156.24350@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> wilbur@starfish.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) writes: >In article , payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes: >|> It is difficult to read text that wraps excessively. When I read from my >|> sparc2 at work, I can just widen the window. But my PC at home does not >|> allow for this. >|> >|> The discussion to date is fascinating, but hard to read. So I am >|> asking, politely, that you post in 80 columns. >|> >|> When I gain some confidence in Windows or OS2, and buy one, this may not >|> be a problem. Better yet, when Sun releases S5V4 for DOS, I may buy that. >|> But like the 64K max for postings, it is a better idea to post in a format >|> that the general audience can display. >|> >|> Please do not take this as a flame. >|> >|> Rich >|> >|> payner@netcom.com >|> >|> >Sorry. It's just the program that I use for News. It is an X-windows >environment and it automatically linefeeds. Apparently, it actually doesn't place >a line feed char in the text though..eh? I still do not understand. You cannot just hit RETURN/ENTER/WHATEVER before the end of the screen? A friend of mine used xnews, I will have to take a look. I still use trn, or even rn if I have to. I would still think that xrn would place linefeeds only after a line must wrap. If this is so, just narrow the window a bit. I prefer wide windows for some things, but for posting, 80 columns still seems appropriate. I doubt that xrn will run on my machine, but I have access to several Sun boxes running 4.1.1. I'll try the IPC for a day or 2. >Anyone else using "xrn" have this problem? > >Brick Rich payner@netcom.com Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61006@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 92 21:35:10 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world Lines: 11 Last year I was listening to a radio show from San Franciso over KEST l450 kc AM. On this particular show a person was talking by the name of Shaari. She is a regular person born to parents on Earth just like everybody else. As best I can understand it she was communicating with the space people by ESP and finally made the switch with the space person to take over her body (sort of a walk-on. She now has an intelligence that is controlling her body that was a occupant of a space ship in the Ashtar Command. She has a lot to say about Crop Circles and I'll be trying my best to post some of that information in the future. That's all folks. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bt479 From: bt479@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gary Stollman) Subject: SURE AS SHOOTIN!!! Message-ID: <1992Jun24.065038.8837@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> Sender: news@usenet.ins.cwru.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: cwns1.ins.cwru.edu Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 06:50:38 GMT Lines: 11 SOMEONE deleted my last note!! I sure as hell didn't do it!!! Now, I have discovered that my good old friend Danny Fried was replaced, and they have tried to replace Joan again as well...llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll### -- Gary Stollman GEnie:G.STOLLMAN Internet:garys@bluemoon.rn.com Don't think I'm crazy cause I know twenty computer languages and have stolen more time on computers for free than you know about!! Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!jato!quake!nateh From: nateh@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Nate Hawthorn) Subject: Lets get with the Science Message-ID: <3o5umB3w163w@quake.sylmar.ca.us> Sender: bbs@quake.sylmar.ca.us Organization: Quake Public Access Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1992 07:44:37 GMT Lines: 36 OK, I have been doing some research and I now will release this information because I am sick and tired of people sitting around thinking that they can't possibly do what UFO's are doing. We really are not that far from doing what they are, we just need to look at things that other's have passed over. For those of you with a background in RF, if you want to tell WHERE a UFO is in the sky, take a spectrum analyser and connect it to a computer, watch a small section of spectrum (depending on your antenna mostly) for the NOISE LEVEL. If you point the antenna at the UFO you will find that your NOISE level rises up a bit. YOU WILL NOT FIND A CERTIAN "FREQUENCY" that goes up and down, its WIDEBAND NOISE as far as we understand it. If you understand the basics I am talking about here, then you will understand how to construct an antenna that the computer runs that will sweep around and locate the UFO. Try it at area 52 (I expect after all the TV coverage about area 52 that they have moved the operation anyway), it will be very usefull over the fields that Crop Circles have been found too! Once you understand that it's wide band noise, you might even get a idea of how you can do what they are doing!! More info may be available at (805) 259-6407 in the "UFO" section. (modem) Please post this information on ANY system you know of that has TEXT section for Space. Please feel free to write me so that we can get together and discuss the Science behind all this. Please, no "gross alien" type people, I think LOGICALLY and want to talk SCIENCE PLEASE! Nate.. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!ukma!widener!dsinc!ub!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Closed Abductee Conference Message-ID: <138782.2A479C12@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 23 Jun 92 21:08:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - But seriously, if abduction research is going even *more* underground, > then > it is becoming more and more like alchemy in the Middle Ages. Every > researcher > will have his own secret base of knowledge and will keep it under as > much > control as possible to avoid anyone else attaining the Philosopher's > Stone > of abduction research (whatever *that* turns out to be). > > I find it rather disgusting. It does nothing to garner abductionists > the > legitimacy they so desperately seem to crave and *does* tend to give the > impression that even *they* feel the subject isn't as valid as they want > us > to believe. I second this. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!ukma!widener!dsinc!ub!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Opinion Poll - Intruders Message-ID: <138783.2A479C14@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 23 Jun 92 21:11:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - Date: 24 Jun 92 11:31:40 GMT Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Lines: 17 Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com Hello anybody, Has anyone done any further checking on Bob Lazars' background? I was curious if anyone has any information on him,good,bad or whatever.Any info would be appreciated. Also,has anyone seen the video that he put together on the advanced technology that he alledgedly worked on? Thanks, Rod -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Closed Abductee Conference Message-ID: <1992Jun24.115020.19483@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: 24 Jun 92 11:50:20 GMT References: <138782.2A479C12@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Lines: 32 Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com > But seriously, if abduction research is going even *more* underground, > then > it is becoming more and more like alchemy in the Middle Ages. Every > researcher > will have his own secret base of knowledge and will keep it under as > much > control as possible to avoid anyone else attaining the Philosopher's > Stone > of abduction research (whatever *that* turns out to be). > > I find it rather disgusting. It does nothing to garner abductionists > the > legitimacy they so desperately seem to crave and *does* tend to give the > impression that even *they* feel the subject isn't as valid as they want > us > to believe. >>I second this. >>Mike ME TOO. There seems to be alot of repulsive information hording in this field. As a matter of fact at the regional M.U.F.O.N. meetings recently Video & Audio recordings are now prohibited because the information is so sensative,what a joke.I thought we were supposed exposing what ever is going on ,not trying to hide it. Seems people in the know are doing exactly what they accuse the government of doing. What a sad state of affairs. Rod -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Xref: news.uiowa.edu sci.skeptic:26282 alt.alien.visitors:6608 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!mips!mips!munnari.oz.au!metro!mama!andy From: andy@research.canon.oz.au (Andy Newman) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Alien/U.S. Gov't Collusion Message-ID: <1992Jun24.064259.27289@research.canon.oz.au> Date: 24 Jun 92 06:42:59 GMT References: Sender: news@research.canon.oz.au Organization: Canon Information Systems Research Australia Lines: 5 I think the text got corrupted in the way to Oz. The bit about JFK being killed because he was going to tell the world about the aliens (BTW, Reptoids is a great name - weren't they in V?) was missing ;-) -- Andy Newman (andy@research.canon.oz.au) Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!APOLLO.HP.COM!nelson_p From: nelson_p@APOLLO.HP.COM Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: re Caution for UFO investig Message-ID: <9206241322.AA20401@xuucp.ch.apollo.hp.com> Date: 24 Jun 92 12:50:34 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Lines: 27 >JR=8> The >JR=8>UFO mystery has emerged as perhaps the >JR=8>major unsolved mystery of our time that is >JR=8>not being openly researched by organized, >JR=8>governmentally supported science. Oh, ca-ca. A serious mystery has to have something concrete to investigate. Like, "The body in the drawing room" --- at least you have a dead body as evidence, and can proceed from there to determine the cause of death, the time of death, the identity of the person involved, etc. There ARE major "mysteries" in our time -- or at least topics which are of compelling scientific and societal interest: acid rain, global climate, AIDS, etc. All of these have major areas of mystery in the sense that there are major aspects to these issues which require deeper understanding and more study. UFO's are purely speculative. NO concrete evidence has ever been presented that we are dealing with anything real. Until that happens it is a topic only for sociologists and psychologists. ---peter Xref: news.uiowa.edu sci.skeptic:26288 alt.alien.visitors:6610 Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!anson From: anson@netcom.com (Anson Kennedy) Subject: Re: Alien/U.S. Gov't Collusion Message-ID: <#1rl-m-.anson@netcom.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 15:05:32 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1992Jun23.122942.29642@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Lines: 50 timpson@nntpd2.enet.dec.com (Steve Timpson) writes: >In article , anson@netcom.com (Anson Kennedy) writes... >>Below is the text of a flyer someone sent me detailing the latest alien/ >>U.S. government collusion theory. It is apparently a compilation of Bill >>Coooper's stuff with a few Lear tidbits thrown in for spice. The flyer >>itself did not name the original source for this stuff, so if anyone has >>info on just *who* put out this flyer, I'd appreciate it if you'd let me >>know. >> >>BEGIN FLYER >> >> THIS INFORMATION COULD SAVE YOUR LIFE AND FREEDOM >> > ....[drival deleted].... > Big YAWN! > The paranoic level of this posting is so great that I would > have to believe that Gary Stollman posted this. > Hey Gary when are you going to repost your INVASION note again. > With the exception of the above drival this file is getting dry. > Steve Food_for_the_Greys It is unclear from your reply whether you are attempting to answer my request for info on the source of the flyer or if you think that Gary Stollman is somehow masquerading as a member of the Georgia Skeptics. If it is the former, while possible, I don't think Gary was responsible for this particular piece of work. He seems to concentrate on postings to the net and this was originally distributed as an anonymous printed flyer. If you were attempting the latter, then I suggest you stay awake when reading these postings. If you had done so, you would have seen from my .sig that I am a member of the Georgia Skeptics. A clue (albeit possibly too obsucre for some to recognise) that I do not subscribe to the content of the flyer. -- Anson Kennedy anson@netcom.com Secretary of the Georgia Skeptics (but don't even THINK I speak for them!) "If you don't watch the violence, \ "If I had been the Virgin Mary, you'll never get desensitized to it." \ I would have said 'No.'" -Bart Simpson \ -Margaret "Stevie" Smith (1902-1971) Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!mcnc!borg!monet!davidson From: davidson@monet.cs.unc.edu (Drew Davidson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Caution for UFO investigators Message-ID: <13268@borg.cs.unc.edu> Date: 24 Jun 92 16:38:00 GMT References: <9206241322.AA20401@xuucp.ch.apollo.hp.com> Sender: news@cs.unc.edu Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill Lines: 51 In article <9206241322.AA20401@xuucp.ch.apollo.hp.com> nelson_p@APOLLO.HP.COM writes: > >>JR=8> The >>JR=8>UFO mystery has emerged as perhaps the >>JR=8>major unsolved mystery of our time that is >>JR=8>not being openly researched by organized, >>JR=8>governmentally supported science. > > Oh, ca-ca. A serious mystery has to have something > concrete to investigate. So I guess a missing person report is not a serious mystery. Heck, the person's missing so there's nothing concrete to investigate! Hey, wait a minute, my wallet's gone! Oh well, nothing I can do, there's nothing concrete to investigate. :-) > UFO's are purely speculative. NO concrete evidence has ever > been presented that we are dealing with anything real. Until > that happens it is a topic only for sociologists and psychologists. Not necessarily true. I became interested in the "UFO phenomenon" after reading a few interesting posts on the net. I am a die-hard skeptic when it comes to pseudo-sciences. I would *love* to see proof of extraterrestrial life. But so far I haven't. What I *have* seen, however, is absolute proof that the US government is (to put it mildly) much more interested in the UFO phenomenon than the public is led to believe. This proof has been acquired through FOIA and published in several books. I am *very* interested in government secrecy and coverups, especially when it involves lying to the public. What do all the other skeptics on this newsgroup think about government secrecy? It is clearly not proof of UFO reality, but it *is* important in and of itself. How free is a nation when its government lies to its people? UFOs themselves are a secondary interest to me (until I get abducted :-). If I hear one more abduction story or see one more video of a stationary bright light in the sky I think I'll hurl. What really interests me (and is arguably more important until the proverbial White House Lawn Landing) is the abuse of power here on Earth. Comments? Drew -- Drew Davidson \\ HELP FULLY INFORM JURORS! TELL YOUR FRIENDS: davidson@cs.unc.edu \\ As a juror, you have the right to vote NOT GUILTY ** LEGALIZE TRUTH ** \\ if you believe the law broken is unjust or wrongly * FULLY INFORM JURORS * \\ applied, regardless of the facts of the case. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party Message-ID: <#6rl3v+.payner@netcom.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 18:15:26 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: Lines: 96 In article jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM writes: >As it turns out, the best places in the Universe for life to flourish >(although not to first appear) are the interiors of planetary bodies >that contain enough radioisotopes to maintain a long-duration thermal >gradient between their molten interiors and their surfaces, not the >surfaces of planets, or asteroids in deep space. Planetary interiors >offer many advantages besides a source of long-lasting energy: protection >from radiation, from weathering and corrosion, and from the temptation >to waste scarce materials by using them in ways that risk their loss. While this would provide a self-heating enviornment, I have a question. Where will they get fresh water and food? I am not aware of any way to produce organics from rock, so unless that can consume rock, there must be some supporting (carbon?) cycle and some sort of water purification cycle. There are some built-in assumptions here, but fewer I think than those required for extended survival underground. >We need posit only one other technology to account for not seeing clear >evidence of their presence: the ability to interpenetrate matter. This >could involve some kind of cross-plane or wormhole physics, but it is Both of these are at this point pure speculation, for which there is no supporting evidence. "cross-plane" physics may have no real meaning, although SF has developed the concept. >also possible that it could be done using more conventional physics >through a process I call bosonic propulsion, in which an entire vehicle >would be put into a bosonic state, like the Cooper pairs of electrons >in superconductivity, so that they could pass between their underground >cities and outer space without having to have access ports through the >ground, and, indeed, to be invisible while traveling in that mode. >Such a life-style would probably leave no trace on the surfaces of the >planets they inhabit, unless there was some side-effect like crop >circles. Do you really think that this is the case, or are you just speculating out loud? (so to speak) >We could have a million underground alien cities, each housing a >million aliens, and never know it if they chose not to reveal >themselves. They could have been here for billions of years. If they are organic, what do they eat? And where does a billion years of waste go? Re-cycling is not 100% efficient, there must be some waste, and some requirement for new materials. >If one looks at the physics and economics of long-duration civiliza- >tions, then it becomes more difficult to explain the absence of such >underground cities than their presence. It has yet to be shown that underground cities are viable. You are extrapolating well beyond the known. Or do you know of some underground cities? If so tell me about their economics. >As for why none of the alien races that might inhabit our planet choose >to reveal themselves to us, why do the passengers and crew of a cruise >ship not reveal themselves to the barnacles infesting the ship's hull. >Unless and until we become to problem to them, we are likely to be >ignored. Some say that the aliens do not reveal themselves because we would blow them out of the sky at the first oppurtunity. You say that we are as barnacles, presumably unintelligent, and uninteresting to any extraterrestial intelligences. We have a wide range of options to choose from. It would seem to me that -if- such an ET race had gone to all the trouble to get here, they would likely show -some- interest in the local's, even if they considered them to be animals. >And that may be the hardest thing to take -- that we are simply too >insignificant to merit contact, even though we live only a few >kilometers away. These are strong conclusions to base upon speculation. And like the mother-earth crowd, it seems rather anti-human. >If this scenario is valid, then it hardly makes sense to call the >others "aliens" or "visitors". They have have been here a lot longer >than we have, and may call Earth home. The meaning of "aliens" and "visitors" is unchanged. If they are not native to earth, then they are and always will be alien. However, if they have homesteaded, then "visitors" may not apply. >--- > >jdr@starflight.corp.sun.com, starflt@uunet.uu.net >Jon Roland >Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A, >Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141 > Rich (wondering abour the "Starflight Corporation") payner@netcom.com Xref: news.uiowa.edu sci.skeptic:26298 alt.alien.visitors:6613 Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd2.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@nntpd2.enet.dec.com (Steve Timpson) Subject: Re: Alien/U.S. Gov't Collusion Message-ID: <1992Jun24.182611.3449@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Sender: usenet@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation References: <1992Jun23.122942.29642@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> <#1rl-m-.anson@netcom.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1992 19:12:57 GMT Lines: 61 In article <#1rl-m-.anson@netcom.com>, anson@netcom.com (Anson Kennedy) writes... ]>>BEGIN FLYER ]>> ]>> THIS INFORMATION COULD SAVE YOUR LIFE AND FREEDOM ]>> ]> ....[drival deleted].... ]> Big YAWN! ]> The paranoic level of this posting is so great that I would ]> have to believe that Gary Stollman posted this. ]> Hey Gary when are you going to repost your INVASION note again. ]> With the exception of the above drival this file is getting dry. ]> Steve Food_for_the_Greys ]It is unclear from your reply whether you are attempting to answer my ]request for info on the source of the flyer or if you think that Gary ]Stollman is somehow masquerading as a member of the Georgia Skeptics. ]If it is the former, while possible, I don't think Gary was responsible ]for this particular piece of work. He seems to concentrate on postings ]to the net and this was originally distributed as an anonymous printed ]flyer. ]If you were attempting the latter, then I suggest you stay awake when ]reading these postings. If you had done so, you would have seen from my ]..sig that I am a member of the Georgia Skeptics. A clue (albeit possibly ]too obsucre for some to recognise) that I do not subscribe to the content ]of the flyer. ]-- ]Anson Kennedy anson@netcom.com ]Secretary of the Georgia Skeptics (but don't even THINK I speak for them!) Well the reference to Gary Stollman was a dig at Gary Stollman. I new quite well that Gary did not write it. My reply was to the topic. It was pure drivel and I only got part way into it before I felt the bile rising in my throat so I began my reply at that point. As to your original posting there was nothing in the beginning to indicate you were a skeptic. If you expected me to read the whole posting just to find out your a skeptic you have another thing coming. You should say at the begining of the posting that you do not buy into this stuff and that you are posting it for pure entertainment only. Otherwise people will think that you are yourself buying into it. Most of the stuff in this news line is not worth reading more than a few lines before rejection and your posting was one. Chill out sport! Steve Food_for_the_Greys Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10496 alt.alien.visitors:6614 sci.skeptic:26300 talk.bizarre:62431 alt.cascade:1322 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!mips!sdd.hp.com!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!ames!nsisrv!usenet From: bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,talk.bizarre,alt.cascade Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Jun24.192920.6945@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> Date: 24 Jun 92 19:29:20 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <60911@cup.portal.com> <60919@cup.portal.com> Sender: usenet@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov (Usenet) Followup-To: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,talk.bizarre,alt.test,alt.cascade Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center Lines: 7 Nntp-Posting-Host: ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov In article <60919@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >I spelled encourage with an i (incourage). Sorry about that. > > >John Winston. Well, we'll let 'ya slide this time but, don't let it happen again. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6615 sci.skeptic:26302 alt.paranormal:5324 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers! Message-ID: <-7rljwb.sheaffer@netcom.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 18:56:44 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <10704705@1992Jun18.003218.7153@bilver.uuc> <422800031@peg> Lines: 35 Today is the 45th anniversary of the birth of UFOs, or, as they were called in those days, "flying Saucers." On June 24, 1947, pilot Kenneth Arnold reported seeing a group of objects shaped roughly like boomerangs, flying in the vicinity of Mt. Rainier in Washington state, that "skipped like a saucer" tossed over water. Notice that people did not report seeing what Arnold SAID he saw - objects having a sort of boomerang-like shape - but rather what they THOUGHT he said he saw, "flying saucers." It didn't look like a saucer, but rather it behaved like one, yet this didn't seem to matter. From this popular misimpression, "flying saucers" (later UFOs) were born. People "saw" what they had been told they might "see." Of course, after 45 years of chasing after "saucers", we have no more solid evidence about this supposed phenomenon than we did in 1947. I wonder how many more years the "flying saucers" will continue to avoid unambiguous detection? And I wonder how many more years the UFOlogists will be able to convince themselves that there's really something "out there" to be proven? -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the table like a card cheat." - Martin Gardner (writing in "Free Inquiry", Spring, 1992) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!convex!convex!swarren From: swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party Message-ID: <1992Jun24.203708.11489@news.eng.convex.com> Sender: usenet@news.eng.convex.com (news access account) Nntp-Posting-Host: neptune.convex.com Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA References: <#6rl3v+.payner@netcom.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1992 20:37:08 GMT X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and not necessarily those of CONVEX. Lines: 43 In article <#6rl3v+.payner@netcom.com> payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes: >If they are organic, what do they eat? And where does a billion years >of waste go? Re-cycling is not 100% efficient, there must be some >waste, and some requirement for new materials. In my opinion, the most serious problem for long-term underground dwelling (millions-billions of years) is not materials waste, but heat waste. If your civilization depends upon the heat differential between the core of the planet and the surface for its energy needs, then it must not heat the planetary surface at a faster rate than the heat can be dissipated by the surface. Obtaining work (what most people mean when they say energy) from heat involves transferring heat from the heat source (core) to a lower temperature sink (surface). This results in a net rise in temperature at the sink. Presumably there is already a heat transfer occuring naturally as heat diffuses from the core to the surface. In order to obtain work one would have to perform additional heat transfer, resulting in a higher surface temperature. As the surface temperature rises, the efficiency of the energy conversion drops, requiring more heat to be transferred to the surface per unit of work performed. For small amounts of work the effect would be negligible. But considering how quickly temperatures go up as one moves into the interior of a planet, it seems that the energy requirements for air-conditioning the living spaces alone would be enormous for a vast civilization living underground. Then add to this the energy requirements of the daily life of this hypothetical civilization (such as transportation, manufacturing, etc.). If there happens to develop a green-house like effect on the surface due to large quantities of carbon dioxide (which can come from volcanic venting, large animal populations, or industrial wastes), the capacity of the surface to shed heat would drop off rapidly. Therefore, if for no other reason than self-interest, underground civilizations would be expected to display a keen interest in the life forms dwelling on the planetary surface. Global warming could spell the end of their civilization. -- _. --Steve ._||__ Welcome to the World's First GaAs Supercomputer Warren v\ *| ----------------------------------------------- V Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!APOLLO.HP.COM!nelson_p From: nelson_p@APOLLO.HP.COM Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Caution for UFO investigators Message-ID: <9206242133.AA22202@xuucp.ch.apollo.hp.com> Date: 24 Jun 92 20:49:21 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Lines: 82 From: davidson@monet.cs.unc.edu (Drew Davidson) >>>JR=8>UFO mystery has emerged as perhaps the >>>JR=8>major unsolved mystery of our time that is >>>JR=8>not being openly researched by organized, >>>JR=8>governmentally supported science. >> >> Oh, ca-ca. A serious mystery has to have something >> concrete to investigate. > >So I guess a missing person report is not a serious mystery. Heck, >the person's missing so there's nothing concrete to investigate! >Hey, wait a minute, my wallet's gone! Oh well, nothing I can do, Don't be silly. Wallets and people are actual physical entities. The only way a missing person report would be equivalent to a UFO report would be if investigation suggested that maybe there WAS no person to begin with. I.e., if nobody had been issued the alleged person's social security number, his alleged address turned uot to be a vacant lot, etc. But assuming there was no reasonable doubt that the person existed in the first place, then there is no parallel. >> UFO's are purely speculative. NO concrete evidence has ever >> been presented that we are dealing with anything real. Until >> that happens it is a topic only for sociologists and psychologists. > >Not necessarily true. What's not necessarily true? The evidence or the relevant field of study? The first one is absolutely true -- NOBODY has presented any physical evidence. Notice how even the intrepid poster who recently claimed that artifacts had been removed from the noses of "abductees" has failed to come forward to substantiate his claim after I publically requested details or evidence. I'd be willing to grant that meteorologists, science fiction writers, in addition to others may have an interest in UFO sightings. >I became interested in the "UFO phenomenon" after reading a few >interesting posts on the net. I am a die-hard skeptic when it comes to >pseudo-sciences. I would *love* to see proof of extraterrestrial life. >But so far I haven't. What I *have* seen, however, is absolute proof >that the US government is (to put it mildly) much more interested in the >UFO phenomenon than the public is led to believe. This is too vague a statement to be meaningful. What is this "ab- solute proof"? (like I expect to get a useful answer . . .) Have you seen any of this "absolute proof" yourself, or are you just basing your opinion of stuff you read on the net? >What do all the other skeptics on this newsgroup think about government >secrecy? It is clearly not proof of UFO reality, but it *is* important >in and of itself. How free is a nation when its government lies to its >people? If UFO enthusiasts would have less of a fixation with events at Air Force bases in Nevada or New Mexico they might not find so much cause to complain about government secrecy! I'm sorry but common sense suggests that the government claims about military secrets at Air Force bases are a tad more believable than UFO hunter's claims that there are LGM's on ice there. >stationary bright light in the sky I think I'll hurl. What really >interests me (and is arguably more important until the proverbial White >House Lawn Landing) is the abuse of power here on Earth. > >Comments? Then why are you posting in alt.alien.visitors? I agree that the question of government secrecy is an interesting political and philosophical topic, but what does it have to do with UFO's? It sounds like an appropriate subject for talk.politics. ---peter Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!convex!convex!swarren From: swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) Subject: Re: Caution for UFO investigators Message-ID: <1992Jun24.223208.10744@news.eng.convex.com> Sender: usenet@news.eng.convex.com (news access account) Nntp-Posting-Host: neptune.convex.com Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA References: <9206242133.AA22202@xuucp.ch.apollo.hp.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1992 22:32:08 GMT X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and not necessarily those of CONVEX. Lines: 26 In article <9206242133.AA22202@xuucp.ch.apollo.hp.com> nelson_p@APOLLO.HP.COM writes: [...] > Then why are you posting in alt.alien.visitors? I agree that the > question of government secrecy is an interesting political and > philosophical topic, but what does it have to do with UFO's? > It sounds like an appropriate subject for talk.politics. The previous poster states that the government is intimately and secretly involved in studying UFO's and in covert operations against private citizens in the USA who are also studying UFO's, and your reply is: "What does that have to do with UFO's?" Pretty lame, Peter. I think he posted it because you asked about hard evidence, and this is one area in the subject of UFO's where there is hard evidence (not of the existence of extraterrestrials per-se - but of a lot of surreptiteous scurrying around by US intelligence personel who seem very paranoid about people who believe in them). The evidence is documented through official FOA reports from the government. Seems pretty straightforward to me. What is obscure about the connection? -- _. --Steve ._||__ Welcome to the World's First GaAs Supercomputer Warren v\ *| ----------------------------------------------- V Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!gumby!yale!yale.edu!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!snapper.cps.msu.edu!wilbur From: wilbur@snapper.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Blackbird SR-71 Message-ID: <1992Jun24.232314.10287@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Date: 24 Jun 92 23:23:14 GMT References: <1776f630@nacjack.gen.nz> Sender: wilbur@snapper.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University Lines: 29 In article <1776f630@nacjack.gen.nz>, Peter.Caffell@p0.f140.n772.z3.fido.nacjack.gen.nz (Peter Caffell) writes: |> |> |> |CM> "In July 1976 an SR-71 set an absolute and class world speed | |> |CM>record of 2,193.6 miles an hour at an altitude record for level flight | |> |CM>of 85,069 feet. Another dashed from New York to London in less than | |> |CM>two hours. This has allowed the Strategic Air Command, which operates | |> +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |> |> If the SR-71 was so secret up until it was made public in 1990. |> |> How come there is film footage of it in films dateing back to |> 1981. |> |> The film "The Man Who Saw Tomorrow" contains footage of the |> SR-71 taking off. |> |> Peter. |> ___ |> X MegaMail 2.1b #0: Ok, who knows when the blackbird was presented to the general public? It must have been before 1990. Because I got a 1984( or 1986) World Records book that states that the blackbird set a speed record back then. Brick Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!snapper.cps.msu.edu!wilbur From: wilbur@snapper.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: re Caution for UFO investig Message-ID: <1992Jun24.235732.15757@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Date: 24 Jun 92 23:57:32 GMT References: <9206241322.AA20401@xuucp.ch.apollo.hp.com> Sender: news@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University Lines: 50 In article <9206241322.AA20401@xuucp.ch.apollo.hp.com>, nelson_p@APOLLO.HP.COM writes: |> |> >JR=8> The |> >JR=8>UFO mystery has emerged as perhaps the |> >JR=8>major unsolved mystery of our time that is |> >JR=8>not being openly researched by organized, |> >JR=8>governmentally supported science. |> |> Oh, ca-ca. A serious mystery has to have something |> concrete to investigate. Like, "The body in the drawing |> room" --- at least you have a dead body as evidence, and |> can proceed from there to determine the cause of death, the |> time of death, the identity of the person involved, etc. |> |> There ARE major "mysteries" in our time -- or at least topics |> which are of compelling scientific and societal interest: |> acid rain, global climate, AIDS, etc. All of these have major |> areas of mystery in the sense that there are major aspects to |> these issues which require deeper understanding and more study. |> |> UFO's are purely speculative. NO concrete evidence has ever |> been presented that we are dealing with anything real. Until I have one question for you. Can you prove to me or anyone else that we, the United States, has actually been to the moon? Concrete proof?? You say, "Oh sure, there are plenty of photos and footage!" Devil advocate response: They could have been manufactured...fake. Come on show me some concrete proof!! If you cant, I guess we never went to the moon. |> that happens it is a topic only for sociologists and psychologists. |> |> |> ---peter |> |> How many years did it take for some people to actually, finally, believe that we had put someone on the moon. My great grandma didn't believe it for 4 or 5 years. Think about it Peter. The general public could never prove it. So basically, I guess we never actually landed on the moon. I cant prove it. Can anyone out there (besides you NASA employees) prove it?? Brick Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61047@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 18:53:25 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <61006@cup.portal.com> Lines: 11 Subject: Crop Circles. After hearing about Shaari on the radio I contacted a friend of by the name of Dr. David Kamitser who was planning some seminars with her and he gave me her address in Canada. I wrote her and she copy of one of her tapes that was talking about crop circles. I will now attempt to take the information off of her tape. The parts that I couldn't lunderstand will be put in brackets, like this{ }. Transmission from SHAARIand her friends Abraham and Malaya. P.O. Box 22040 Brentwood Bay, B.C. Canada. VOS IRO ((604-652-3118) I'll have to stop for now. John Winston Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!tuna.cps.msu.edu!linebaug From: linebaug@tuna.cps.msu.edu (Kurt P Linebaugh) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Caution for UFO investigators Message-ID: <1992Jun25.004914.24547@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Date: 25 Jun 92 00:49:14 GMT References: <9206241322.AA20401@xuucp.ch.apollo.hp.com> <13268@borg.cs.unc.edu> Sender: news@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University Lines: 29 |> >> [arguments about lack of concrete evidence deleted] |> I became interested in the "UFO phenomenon" after reading a few |> interesting posts on the net. I am a die-hard skeptic when it comes to |> pseudo-sciences. I would *love* to see proof of extraterrestrial life. |> But so far I haven't. What I *have* seen, however, is absolute proof |> that the US government is (to put it mildly) much more interested in the |> UFO phenomenon than the public is led to believe. This proof has been |> acquired through FOIA and published in several books. I am *very* |> interested in government secrecy and coverups, especially when it |> involves lying to the public. Actually, I would go so far as to say that there is almost irrefutable evidence to the existence of UFO's. I am NOT saying there is evidence of extraterrestrial life, but of unidentified flying objects. There have been numerous reports (thousands) where the government cannot explain occurances even on some of their own military (missile) bases. Read 'Clear Intent' if you don't believe me. The government MUST be very much interested in this topic if for no other reason than national security! Why won't our government tell us the truth? Can anyone e-mail me the names of any books or articles about the government cover-up of the UFO phenomenon? -- linebaug@cps.msu.edu Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6623 alt.conspiracy:16044 sci.skeptic:26319 talk.religion.newage:10504 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.newage Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys From: garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) Subject: INVASION!!! Message-ID: Sender: bbs@bluemoon.rn.com (BBS Login) Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024]) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 07:58:51 EDT Lines: 9 I AM NOW UNABLE TO GET THROUGH TO THIS BBS VIA MY PC-PURSUIT ACCESS...WHEN I TRY IT SAYS "NO DIAL TONE", WHEN THE LINE IS OPEN AND CLEAR...I AM USING REGULAR PHONE SERVICE TO MAKE THIS CALL...BEWARE, HUMANS!!! BE AWARE!!! Gary Stollman This is from garys@bluemoon.rn.com who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6624 alt.conspiracy:16045 sci.skeptic:26320 talk.religion.newage:10505 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.newage Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys From: garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) Subject: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <8HiVmB1w164w@bluemoon.rn.com> Sender: bbs@bluemoon.rn.com (BBS Login) Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024]) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 08:42:54 EDT Lines: 254 ? ************ Topic 12 Sun Aug 04, 1991 G.FAIRCHILD [DEATHJESTER] at 20:09 EDT Sub: UFO's and Close Encounters Topic for discussing UFO's, "Close Encounters", and for people to talk about what they believe, and what governments are holding back from the public. Anyone remember "Hanger 18"? 791 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 7, Topic 12 Message 522 Tue May 19, 1992 MARCUS at 02:09 EDT ------------ Category 4, Topic 29 Message 103 Thu Aug 22, 1991 G.STOLLMAN [Gary] at 23:55 EDT I have waited a while before I placed the stuff on here that will prove to all that my story is true...There were reasons for this! However, now it can be told... [Two paragraphs here removed by Marcus.] I started in computers in 1977, when my mom showed me an advertisment in the L.A. Times about a computer fair at USC...She knew about my interest in computers from my spending all my spare time at computer stores (what few there were at that time), and buying up everything I could lay my hands on about the subject...I had searched for many years for something which would utilize the fine mind I was gifted with... So it was one weekend that summer that I first walked into the Keck Computer Center at USC...The place was packed to the walls with people of all ages (mostly kids) sitting at and standing behind terminals hooked up to the college's main-frame computer...They were deeply involved in playing computer games of every size and shape, limited though they were by the technology of the time...As soon as I got a chance at one of the terminals, I was hooked for life...I vowed that I would come back there after the fair was over and learn everything about their system that I could... The next day I was back, but this time with knowledge that would enable me to access the computers without having "legal" access to them...The Keck Center was one of those unique places where ANYONE could just walk in and use the computers, as the signon information was handily placed on the blackboard in the room...When I discovered that this information was NOT enough to give me the highest level of access I needed, it was nothing to me to merely steal someone elses password...I was on a "holy quest for knowledge", and would let nothing stand in my way...Stealing passwords is pretty easy if you have little morals about going about it...The easiest way is to simply stand behind someone elses terminal when they are logging in, and watch them type in their password...Even if you don't see the exact keys they hit, you can make a mental note of the general area they strike, and then it is merely a process of elimination... After I had a signon which would allow me to make print-outs on the main line printer without anyones knowledge, I printed up copies of the manuals for EVERY computer language available at that time...Also, the Keck Center had a full tutorial at my disposal that taught the Basic computer language, one of the first languages that a person starts with...It only took me a few weeks to learn Basic through this method... Around this time, I discovered that there were several other computer sites at USC which I could access...One was the Salvatori Computer Center, a few blocks down the street from the Keck Center...This system was much more advanced than the Keck's, being a Tops-10 system...If you think I am a kind of scoundrel for what I did, think of this...The first day I walked into the Salvatori Center, there were maybe 5 little kids sitting there playing games on their system, using passwords stolen from students going there...One of them offered me a password, and I was on my way... I learned everything about the Tops-10 system that could be known over the next few weeks...I learned how to copy files from other users accounts, even the system operators...After a while, there was little that I couldn't do or gain access to... I had fun, but I was still expanding, reaching for more and more knowledge...It was at this time that I made what would become one of the most important friends in my life...I was sitting around the Santa Monica Computer Store, one of the few computer stores at the time, playing some game which I can't even remember to this day...A guy walked in, and bought a disk drive, and started to walk out...He stopped and looked at the game I was playing..."That's a pretty nice game, isn't it!," he said to me...I was anxious to impress him..."Oh, have you ever seen Adventure?!," I asked him...Adventure was a "brand-new" main-frame game that I played at a special computer set up at the Salvatori Center..."Have you ever seen Zork!!??," he responded..."ZORK!!!," I excitedly answered..."What's ZORK!!??"...He then told me if I would like to come by his office the next day, he would gladly show me...This was like asking the snake if it would like a bite of the Apple...I immediately agreed, and he told me how to get to his office... When I arrived at Rick Shiffman's office the next day, he happily welcomed me into the world of the Arpanet (Advanced Research Project Network), sponsored by the Department of Defense...This is a huge computer network linking some 300-350 college, research, and defense computers around the nation...Rick sat me down at the terminal in his office, and began to demonstrate just what he was into...It turned out that not only was he partially responsible for creating the language (Muddle) that Zork used, but his signon was one of the most powerful on the Arpanet...He let me play Zork alone in his office for a few hours, than sadly told me that I would have to leave...I thanked him, and asked him if I could come back sometime in the future...He agreed, as long as he had time available...I then walked out of the building, but as I was not one to be turned away by any kind of security, I made a note of the methods that people used to gain access to the building... That weekend, I walked into the USC-ISI (Informational Sciences Institute) building, signed my name in the book at the guard's desk, and took the elevator to the top floor of the South tower of the Bank of America buildings in Marina Del Rey...I rang the bell of the door, which was locked and had only a peephole through which you were looked at, and the door opened only if you were someone who should be there...A voice asked who I was, and I told the voice that I was a friend of Ricks'...The door swung open, and Larry Fye, one of the operators of the site who would become my greatest ally on the network, invited me in... Larry took me into the computer room, and told me that he couldn't let me use his signon to play games...Then he had a thought (luckily for me), and got Rick Shiffman on the phone...He told Rick I was there and wanted to play Zork, and would he give me the password to his account...Rick agreed, and I took the phone, and entered the mysterious inner workings of the Arpanet... I spent the entire day and night there, on one of the terminals in someone's office playing Zork...At about 2am or so, I decided I couldn't look at the screen any longer, and asked Larry if I could come back the next day, sometime in the afternoon...As it was a Sunday, and he was working weekends, he agreed...I walked out the doors, signed out at the guard's station downstairs, and the guard asked me if I was tired working so late, and I just told him no, that I was used to it by now...I laughed all the way to my car... The next day, I rang the bell at the 12th floor, and Larry opened the door and greeted me as if I was one of his best friends for years...It does get pretty lonely, baby-sitting a computer by yourself for hours on end...This time, Larry started to introduce me to some of the neat tricks of the trade of being an operator...He showed me how to load the tape decks and disk packs, and how to run the whole system...It was just this kind of intimate knowledge that would lead to my downfall... I spent the next TWO YEARS, DAY AND NIGHT, at the site...I didn't have much of a social life during this time, but I made up for it in knowledge...I learned the inside and out of the Arpanet, and using Ricks signon and authority, I began to gain access to all the other computers on the network...It was really quite easy...I would simply send a "E-mail" note to a site, saying I was a associate of Ricks, and needed the signon for a project I was working on...I usually put down that I was investigating the intellectual aspect of computer game-playing as a social function, just for the laugh...Because of the priority of the signon I was using, the next day a note would come back saying, "All set up!"...In some cases, if the operator had knowledge of Rick, the signon was created while I watched...I never told Rick of this aspect of my "game-playing"... It wasn't long before I had discovered how to access the Pentagon's computers, and figured out how to decifer the protected files that were on there...It was SO damn easy, it was really unbelievable...It was at this time that I began to have problems with one of the people at the site...The office which I had been using had some top-secret data sitting on the shelves, which I used to go through, but always returned it exactly as I found it...Somehow, the guy whose office it was got wind that his stuff had been tampered with, and I was forced to move to another office...Darn! Anyways, I was hanging around the Keck Center one day, when I didn't want to go to ISI some weekend, and I noticed this kid sitting at a new special terminal playing a game on the computer at Cal Tech in Pasadena over a modem...I knew this had to be impossible, but I queried him and he told me that it was a secret, and he couldn't give out the info because it was "dangerous"...I stood behind him and tried to see what number he was dialing, but he was as sharp as I was, and covered his hand while dialing...I was able to find out from him after a few more times there that there was a special number called a TIP number (Terminal IMP Processor), which connected to a computer in the basement of the Pentagon, and allowed one to access ANY computer on the Arpanet through any modem...The number was kept a close secret, though, but I am a determined guy, and although it took me almost a year to learn the number, I did it... I found the number on the wall next to the first Plato terminal I ever saw...I had been told by one of the regular kids at the Salvatori Center that if I wanted to see some REAL games, I should go over to a certain building near USC, and get a signon on the Plato computer system...When I walked into the room containing three Plato terminals hooked up to CERL (Computer Education Research Lab) at the University of Illinois in Urbana, Illinois, there was a large piece of paper on the wall which said USC-TIP and the number underneath...I simply couldn't believe it...Top-Secret phones numbers sitting around for all to see!!! I asked the head guy there and was given a signon to CERL... For the next two weeks, I spent day and night at the place, playing a true fighter simulation called Airfight...Then the site went down, and the terminals were taken out...I made a note of the TIP number, and started dialing out to the Arpanet from the modems at the Keck Center...I spent a few memorable weeks doing this... Then, something happened which scared the H**L out of me...Larry Fye was showing off his skills to me one night at ISI, when he suddenly asked me if I would like to see him knock one of the other sites off the face of the earth...I told him I would have to see it to believe it, so he opened the bottom drawer of the operators desk there, and took out a book which had some interesting writing on it...It said that it was a Federal Offense to OPEN the book, and the penalty was a 20-year prison term or $50,000, whichever came first! He flipped the huge book open to some page, then copied down some numbers that were on the page...Then he signed on to SRI (Stanford Research Institute), did a couple of things, typed in the numbers, hit the return key, and said, "THEY'RE GONE!!!"...I looked on in amazement as the message "SRI is not ready..." came over the screen...This meant that SRI was GONE...It had been knocked off the air...I didn't believe it was possible, so I tried logging on through Telnet...Sure enough, the system had gone down...Larry told me that this could be done to ANY computer if you knew the right codes...I thought of what could happen to the real important computers on the Arpanet if that got out somehow...I was truly scared... A few nights later, something happened...I learned about it the next day from Rick...He came up to me as I was coming in, and rudely demanded to know where I had been the night before...I told him I had not been there, and after a few moments, he confided in me what had happened the previous night...It seems that Rick had been working late and had seen some people he didn't recognize standing in the dark...When he called out to them, they took off, and ran down the stairs and out of the building...Rick then called security and when they searched the offices, it turned out that something of a Top-Secret nature had been taken...Rick said he couldn't tell me what it was, for reasons I well knew...He said I could not come to the site any longer like I had been doing...I said I was sorry something had been taken, and told him goodbye... Not being one to lose a million-dollar opportunity, I went to the Keck Center and signed on to the Arpanet on one of my signons...Suddenly, the operator did a Talk to me, and asked me who I was...When I beat around the bush, he got ENRAGED and DEMANDED to know who had authorized my signon...I got scared and broke the connection...I practically ran out of the place... The next day, being too curious for my own good, I came back to the Keck Center and tried to log onto one of my various signons...It was GONE!!! I tried signon after signon, and EVERY one was gone...Suddenly, the connection went dead...When I dialed the TIP number, I heard a strange pulsating tone coming over it that was not normal...I went home... The next day, I came back, and when I tried the TIP number, IT was GONE!!! I was scared to death, and went home, making sure that nobody saw me leave the place...I knew that something REAL big had happened, if they had disconnected the TIP number itself...It was pretty frightening...I imagined in my mind government officials like the CIA and FBI pouring over ISI with a fine tooth comb to learn exactly what I had been into...And what about those people standing in the dark, who had taken something so important and secret that Rick wouldn't tell me about it...How had they gotten in??? I was the ONLY person outside of the people working there that had access to the place...Did they somehow have knowledge of my access and used that to their advantage??? I just didn't know...I was scared and worried about other computer "crimes" that I had committed...Anyways, that is how this all REALLY started... Gary ------------ This is from garys@bluemoon.rn.com who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6625 alt.conspiracy:16046 sci.skeptic:26321 talk.religion.newage:10506 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.newage Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys From: garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) Subject: INVASION!!! Message-ID: Sender: bbs@bluemoon.rn.com (BBS Login) Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024]) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 10:22:08 EDT Lines: 18 As I was saying in my previous message before it got deleted...Joan and I had a good time in Yosemite, the REAL one, that is...When we got back, things started happening...I have been calling Joan on my Sprint phone card, as I can't get the real one using the regular Pacific Bell lines...When I called her up after dropping her off at her apartment, the Sprint operator told me that she couldn't put my call through because her computer terminal was frozen...I tried again...Then there were a series of loud clicks, and the line went dead...Once again...This time the call went through, only there was a warbling pulsating tone along with the ringing...When the REAL Joan answered, there was a loud CLICK, and then her voice changed...The FAKE one...On a different line...I think you get the picture... Gary Stollman This is from garys@bluemoon.rn.com who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6626 alt.conspiracy:16047 sci.skeptic:26325 talk.religion.newage:10508 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy!vancleef From: vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.newage Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <12704.2a491adb@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> Date: 25 Jun 92 01:01:15 EDT References: Lines: 25 In article , garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) writes: > I AM NOW UNABLE TO GET THROUGH TO THIS BBS VIA MY PC-PURSUIT ACCESS...WHEN > I TRY IT SAYS "NO DIAL TONE", WHEN THE LINE IS OPEN AND CLEAR...I AM USING > REGULAR PHONE SERVICE TO MAKE THIS CALL...BEWARE, HUMANS!!! BE AWARE!!! > > Gary Stollman > > This is from > garys@bluemoon.rn.com > who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet Is it just me, or is this guy ^^^ obsessed with the telephone or what? Jeez, get a life dude! -Garrett (Actually, I am Garrett's clone, the real Garrett is on vacation) Yeah, un-huh, right... Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6627 alt.conspiracy:16048 sci.skeptic:26326 talk.religion.newage:10509 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy!vancleef From: vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.newage Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <12705.2a491be7@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> Date: 25 Jun 92 01:05:42 EDT References: Lines: 30 In article , garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) writes: > As I was saying in my previous message before it got deleted...Joan and I > had a good time in Yosemite, the REAL one, that is...When we got back, > things started happening...I have been calling Joan on my Sprint phone > card, as I can't get the real one using the regular Pacific Bell > lines...When I called her up after dropping her off at her apartment, the > Sprint operator told me that she couldn't put my call through because her > computer terminal was frozen...I tried again...Then there were a series of > loud clicks, and the line went dead...Once again...This time the call went > through, only there was a warbling pulsating tone along with the > ringing...When the REAL Joan answered, there was a loud CLICK, and then > her voice changed...The FAKE one...On a different line...I think you get > the picture... > > Gary Stollman > > This is from > garys@bluemoon.rn.com > who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet I'll bet this guy seriously spazzed out 2 years ago when AT&T's west coast network went down due to a software error! Have you taken your medicine today Gary? Hmm?? -Garrett Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61064@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 22:37:57 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61047@cup.portal.com> Lines: 0 Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6629 alt.conspiracy:16051 sci.skeptic:26327 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.n Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!isis.cs.du.edu!arsmith From: arsmith@isis.cs.du.edu (alan smith) Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <1992Jun25.053807.17190@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users. Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account) Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. References: Date: Thu, 25 Jun 92 05:38:07 GMT Lines: 22 In article garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Sto lman) writes: >I AM NOW UNABLE TO GET THROUGH TO THIS BBS VIA MY PC-PURSUIT ACCESS...WH N >I TRY IT SAYS "NO DIAL TONE", WHEN THE LINE IS OPEN AND CLEAR...I AM USI G >REGULAR PHONE SERVICE TO MAKE THIS CALL...BEWARE, HUMANS!!! BE AWARE!!! > > Gary Stollman > > This is from > garys@bluemoon.rn.com >who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet Yeah, now he has to have his post watched by the aliens/government/really bad dudes like the rest of us. (Hey, somebody have his origional (sp?) post somewhere? I want a copy. See how many people believe it. We'd all probably be surprised.) Big Al Who has to type out their own obnoxious signature by hand. X Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!psgrain!percy!agora!krowell From: krowell@agora.uucp (Keith Rowell) Subject: Re: UFOs and The Secret Govt (was ANNOUNCEMENT...) Message-ID: <1992Jun25.044437.2341@agora.uucp> Organization: Open Communications Forum References: <3S9371L@zelator.in-berlin.de> <1992Jun23.191652.29736@mprgate.mpr.ca> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1992 04:44:37 GMT Lines: 30 Michael Lindemann edited and introduced the recent book UFOs and the Alien Presence published by The 2020 Group, Visitors Investigation Project, Santa Barbara, CA, 1991. The book consists of six interviews with Friedman, Linda Howe, Bob Lazar, Budd Hopkins, "Tom" (an abductee?), and Donald Ware, a MUFON investigator involved with Gulf Breeze. From his introduction: "In December of 1989, I launched the Visitors Investigation Project as a special focus of my future-studies organization, the 2020 Group; and in March of 1990, I published a brief summary of initial findings titled UFOs and the Alien Presence: Time for the Truth." "... there are numerous researchers who belong to what I will call the liberal wing of ufology. I include myself in this group..." We believe: " o The alien presence is real. Evidence overwhelmingly supports the basic claim that intelligent non-human beings are present on the earth. o The alien presence is substantial. There are not just a few compelling cases, but hundreds or thousands, suggesting that alien entities are here in large numbers. o The alien presence is active and purposeful. ..." Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6631 alt.conspiracy:16059 sci.skeptic:26340 talk.religion.newage:10511 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.newage Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys From: garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) Subject: INVASION!!! Message-ID: Sender: bbs@bluemoon.rn.com (BBS Login) Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024]) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 92 05:53:29 EDT Lines: 24 I am up late tonight, and just thought I would let you all know what I am planning on doing...If and when I get the real Joan back, we are going to go back to Tallahassee together again...When I get there, I will immediately file a complaint with the police against the hospital that cut up my dick...Then I will look around for a lawyer who will help me with my lawsuit against all the hospitals and the government...I don't really care if I find one who will help me or not, because I will still file in Federal Court, and I will ask them to appoint me an attorney if need be...I don't plan on holding anything back, I am suing everyone who ever looked at me cross-eyed...The Secret Service is also involved in this, as way back when this all started, I called them to report a threat made on the presidents life by a classmate of mine, and the next day they told me the agent had gone on vacation, and that I was crazy and to go check myself into a mental hospital...It is more invoved than that...Maybe I will upload some of my stuff from the Writers BB on GEnie later tonight...The most important thing right now is that the CIA be destroyed...Utterly!!! Completely!!! They are responsible for making the clones, and working with the aliens who have the power to do it... Gary Stollman This is from garys@bluemoon.rn.com who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!mcover From: mcover@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark Coverdill) Subject: Re: Blackbird SR-71 Message-ID: <1992Jun25.125311.27454@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Sender: news@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: top.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Organization: The Ohio State University References: <1776f630@nacjack.gen.nz> <1992Jun24.232314.10287@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1992 12:53:11 GMT Lines: 49 In article <1992Jun24.232314.10287@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> wilbur@snapper.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) writes: >In article <1776f630@nacjack.gen.nz>, Peter.Caffell@p0.f140.n772.z3.fido.nacjack.gen.nz (Peter Caffell) writes: > >|> >|> >|> |CM> "In July 1976 an SR-71 set an absolute and class world speed | >|> |CM>record of 2,193.6 miles an hour at an altitude record for level flight | >|> |CM>of 85,069 feet. Another dashed from New York to London in less than | >|> |CM>two hours. This has allowed the Strategic Air Command, which operates | >|> +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ >|> >|> If the SR-71 was so secret up until it was made public in 1990. >|> >|> How come there is film footage of it in films dateing back to >|> 1981. >|> >|> The film "The Man Who Saw Tomorrow" contains footage of the >|> SR-71 taking off. >|> >|> Peter. >|> ___ >|> X MegaMail 2.1b #0: > > >Ok, who knows when the blackbird was presented to the general public? > >It must have been before 1990. Because I got a 1984( or 1986) World Records book >that states that the blackbird set a speed record back then. > >Brick I am not sure of the exact unveiling date of the SR-71 Blackbird but it goes well back to the 1950's I believe. Two of the recon aircraft, the SR-71 (Strategic Recon) and U-2 (or TR-2 (Tactical Recon)) have been around for years and years. I don't have the full text of the message that generated the discussion about the SR being secret until 1990 but I think what you are referring to is the F-117 Stealth fighter that went public (a few months?) prior to Desert Storm. This program was black for about 10 years and had an operational squadron of aircraft for many of those years. After several crashes and the impending trouble oversea I guess the decision was finally made to bring it public. -- Mark Coverdill The Ohio State University Internet: markc+@osu.edu Columbus, Ohio Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!ucbvax!APOLLO.HP.COM!nelson_p From: nelson_p@APOLLO.HP.COM Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Caution for UFO investigators Message-ID: <9206251309.AA24902@xuucp.ch.apollo.hp.com> Date: 25 Jun 92 12:43:33 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Lines: 48 From: swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) I think he posted it because you asked about hard evidence, and >this is one area in the subject of UFO's where there is hard >evidence (not of the existence of extraterrestrials per-se - >but of a lot of surreptiteous scurrying around by US intelligence >personel who seem very paranoid about people who believe in them). >The evidence is documented through official FOA reports from the >government. Seems pretty straightforward to me. What is obscure >about the connection? Because he didn't make one! He didn't offer any evidence that the government has any special interest in UFO research, *per se*. As I said before, there is nothing startling about the government having a special interest in people who snoop around Air Force bases with sophisticated camera or video equipment, or who are constantly filing for FOIA documents related to same. Moreover, we have, and have had in the past, a very snoopy government who maintain files on all kinds of groups and individuals. I'll bet most of us who post anything political or controversial on Usenet, or who have been activist members of any of a number of political or special interest organizations have files somewhere in Washington. So this proves nothing about any connection with UFO's. And to the other poster who thought we'd never been to the moon -- When UFO enthusiasts come up with video footage as good as NASA provided, come up with a story credible enough to fool all the major networks, provide physical evidence as good as the "moon rocks" that NASA came up with, and leave other physical evidence as good as the LASER inferometer left on the moon that any lab with a decent LASER can get a bounce from, then get back to us. Until then: get real! ---peter Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!wellison From: wellison@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Blackbird SR-71 Message-ID: <1992Jun25.100444.41047@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> Date: 25 Jun 92 10:04:44 CDT Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services Lines: 23 >Ok, who knows when the blackbird was presented to the general public? >It must have been before 1990. Because I got a 1984( or 1986) World Records book >that states that the blackbird set a speed record back then. >Brick The SR-71 was known by the general public as far back as the early 70's. Revell model company had some nasty litigation against them for making a detailed plastic model of it without the Air Force's approval. Of course, that blew over (as I have one hanging up in my basement ;-) It might be interesting to note that prior to the SR being known about, it was logged as a UFO by radar operators who would see it streak across their screens at mach 3+ which at that time (late 50's and early 60's), no other aircraft known by the public could attain that kind of speed, so what is it ? A UFO of course. The SR was kept from the public eye for nearly 14 years after it was developed and flown (1956 to 1970). Makes one wonder what else is being kept from the public eye in 1992, doesn't it ? -=-=- Wes =-=-= Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!uwm.edu!csd4.csd.uwm.edu!markh From: markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark William Hopkins) Subject: Re: UFOs and The Secret Govt (was ANNOUNCEMENT...) Message-ID: <1992Jun25.153812.20253@uwm.edu> Sender: news@uwm.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee References: <1992Jun23.191652.29736@mprgate.mpr.ca> <1992Jun25.044437.2341@agora.uucp> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1992 15:38:12 GMT Lines: 15 In article <1992Jun25.044437.2341@agora.uucp> krowell@agora.uucp (Keith Rowell) writes: >We believe: > >" o The alien presence is real. Evidence overwhelmingly supports the basic > claim that intelligent non-human beings are present on the earth. > > o The alien presence is substantial. There are not just a few compelling > cases, but hundreds or thousands, suggesting that alien entities are > here in large numbers. > > o The alien presence is active and purposeful. ..." o The purpose of their visitation is to locate Al Bundy so that they can take his used socks in order to fuel their ships to help stave off a cosmic catastrophe. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!yale.edu!yale!gumby!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!lynx!apsicc.aps.edu!jim From: jim@apsicc.aps.edu (frost...) Subject: Re: Blackbird SR-71 Message-ID: <25JUN199210072471@apsicc.aps.edu> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 92 17:07:00 GMT Organization: Albuquerque Public Schools - Career Enrichment Center References: <1776f630@nacjack.gen.nz> <1992Jun24.232314.10287@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <1992Jun25.125311.27454@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Lines: 65 In article <1992Jun25.125311.27454@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, mcover@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark Coverdill) writes... >In article <1992Jun24.232314.10287@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> wilbur@snapper.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) writes: >>In article <1776f630@nacjack.gen.nz>, Peter.Caffell@p0.f140.n772.z3.fido.nacjack.gen.nz (Peter Caffell) writes: >> >>|> >>|> >>|> |CM> "In July 1976 an SR-71 set an absolute and class world speed | >>|> |CM>record of 2,193.6 miles an hour at an altitude record for level flight | >>|> |CM>of 85,069 feet. Another dashed from New York to London in less than | >>|> |CM>two hours. This has allowed the Strategic Air Command, which operates | >>|> +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ >>|> >>|> If the SR-71 was so secret up until it was made public in 1990. >>|> >>|> How come there is film footage of it in films dateing back to >>|> 1981. >>|> >>|> The film "The Man Who Saw Tomorrow" contains footage of the >>|> SR-71 taking off. >>|> >>|> Peter. >>|> ___ >>|> X MegaMail 2.1b #0: >> >> >>Ok, who knows when the blackbird was presented to the general public? >> >>It must have been before 1990. Because I got a 1984( or 1986) World Records book >>that states that the blackbird set a speed record back then. >> >>Brick > >I am not sure of the exact unveiling date of the SR-71 Blackbird but it >goes well back to the 1950's I believe. Two of the recon aircraft, the >SR-71 (Strategic Recon) and U-2 (or TR-2 (Tactical Recon)) have been >around for years and years. > >I don't have the full text of the message that generated the >discussion about the SR being secret until 1990 but I think what you >are referring to is the F-117 Stealth fighter that went public (a few >months?) prior to Desert Storm. > >This program was black for about 10 years and had an operational squadron >of aircraft for many of those years. After several crashes and >the impending trouble oversea I guess the decision was finally made to >bring it public. > >-- >Mark Coverdill The Ohio State University >Internet: markc+@osu.edu Columbus, Ohio I believe that the 1990 date is actually referring to the time the Air Force announced that the SR-71 was going to be retired from service as the modern satelites could do photography and recon as well or better than the Blackbird. Then about a year ago it was announced that one of the Blackbirds was going to the Smithsonian or some such museum and that roughly two others were to be made available to NASA for high altitude research. Jim Skeba ====================================================================== We are rapidly ascending through prosperity to poverty... Twain Internet: jim@apsicc.aps.edu Albuquerque Public Schools - Instructional System Manager ====================================================================== Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6637 alt.conspiracy:16075 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!mips!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!ames!riacs!pan.arc.nasa.gov!kory From: kory@pan.arc.nasa.gov (don korycansky) Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <1992Jun25.163442.16127@riacs.edu> Sender: news@riacs.edu Organization: NASA-Ames Research Center References: Date: Thu, 25 Jun 92 16:34:42 GMT Lines: 13 In article garys@bluemoon.rn.com (`Gary Stollman') writes: [...] >REGULAR PHONE SERVICE TO MAKE THIS CALL...BEWARE, HUMANS!!! BE AWARE!!! > > Gary Stollman > Wait, now I'm confused...is this the real Stollman, or the clone? -- Me? NASA? Heh! kory@anarchy.arc.nasa.gov "You can't pull *my* wool over the ice!" --Albert Alligator "Idiots, explosives, and falling anvils" --Calvin Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6638 sci.skeptic:26354 alt.paranormal:5330 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!sgigate!rutgers!ub!dsinc!bagate!baarsa!bb6d9cj From: bb6d9cj@baarsa.bell-atl.com (Kretmar) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers! Message-ID: <1992Jun25.145602.210@baarsa.bell-atl.com> Date: 25 Jun 92 14:56:02 GMT References: <10704705@1992Jun18.003218.7153@bilver.uuc> <422800031@peg> <-7rljwb.sheaffer@netcom.com> Organization: Bell Atlantic Lines: 38 In article <-7rljwb.sheaffer@netcom.com> sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes: >Today is the 45th anniversary of the birth of UFOs, or, as they were >called in those days, "flying Saucers." On June 24, 1947, pilot Kenneth >Arnold reported seeing a group of objects shaped roughly like boomerangs, >flying in the vicinity of Mt. Rainier in Washington state, that "skipped >like a saucer" tossed over water. >Notice that people did not report seeing what Arnold SAID he saw - objects >having a sort of boomerang-like shape - but rather what they THOUGHT he said >he saw, "flying saucers." It didn't look like a saucer, but rather >it behaved like one, yet this didn't seem to matter. From this popular >misimpression, "flying saucers" (later UFOs) were born. People "saw" >what they had been told they might "see." >Of course, after 45 years of chasing after "saucers", we have no more >solid evidence about this supposed phenomenon than we did in 1947. >I wonder how many more years the "flying saucers" will continue to >avoid unambiguous detection? And I wonder how many more years the >UFOlogists will be able to convince themselves that there's really >something "out there" to be proven? 1 year, 4 months, 21 days (see you then). >-- > > Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com > > Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! > "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed > by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no > charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No > professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the > table like a card cheat." > - Martin Gardner (writing in "Free Inquiry", > Spring, 1992) Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6639 alt.conspiracy:16077 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!news.bbn.com!ingria From: ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: Date: 25 Jun 92 17:03:46 GMT References: Reply-To: ingria@BBN.COM Lines: 9 NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com In-reply-to: garys@bluemoon.rn.com's message of Wed, 24 Jun 92 10:22:08 EDT In article garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) writes: As I was saying in my previous message before it got deleted...Joan and I had a good time in Yosemite, the REAL one, that is... You mean the aliens have replaced Yosemite, too? The fiends! -30- Bob Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!zazen!psl.wisc.edu!gorski From: gorski@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu (Tom Gorski) Subject: Re: Blackbird SR-71 Message-ID: <1992Jun25.170040.8114@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu> Organization: University of Wisconsin Physical Sciences Lab References: <1992Jun25.100444.41047@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 92 17:00:40 GMT Lines: 37 In article <1992Jun25.100444.41047@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wellison@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes: > > >>Ok, who knows when the blackbird was presented to the general public? > >>It must have been before 1990. Because I got a 1984( or 1986) World Records book >>that states that the blackbird set a speed record back then. > >>Brick > > >The SR-71 was known by the general public as far back as the early 70's. Revell >model company had some nasty litigation against them for making a detailed >plastic model of it without the Air Force's approval. Of course, that blew over >(as I have one hanging up in my basement ;-) [...] >-=-=- Wes =-=-= When I was a little tyke of 4 or 5 back in the mid-60's, my Dad brought me home a little promotional plastic airplane model that he'd received at work. I guess the heavy forge shop that he worked at made the thrust nozzles or some similiar such part for some aircraft, as a subcontractor. I still remember the designator for this airplane: YF-12A For those of you who don't know, this is the aircraft which later became the SR-71. To sum it all up, the existence of the aircraft itself has been common knownledge for at least 25 years or so. The bird's just too #$@! big to hide on the ground. IT'S PERFORMANCE, however, has always been and still remains a closely guarded secret. --Tom Gorski Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu!wb9omc From: wb9omc@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Blackbird SR-71 Message-ID: Date: 25 Jun 92 16:59:24 GMT References: <1776f630@nacjack.gen.nz> <1992Jun24.232314.10287@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Sender: news@noose.ecn.purdue.edu (USENET news) Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network Lines: 83 wilbur@snapper.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) writes: >Ok, who knows when the blackbird was presented to the general public? >It must have been before 1990. Because I got a 1984( or 1986) World Records book >that states that the blackbird set a speed record back then. The A12 Blackbird (first version) was publically announced by President Lyndon Johnson in, I think, mid-1964. The press release included the wrong photo, which was actually of a YF12 (second version, designed as a high speed interceptor with look-down, shoot-down capability using the XAIM-47 Falcon missile, now descended into the AIM54 Phoenix used on the F14 Tomcat). If memory serves me correctly (I don't have my Crickmore here.....) LBJ also spilled his guts on the SR71 the following year, 1965. Interestingly enough, the designation was *supposed* to be the RS71, for Recon. Strike - but LBJ screwed up his speech and called it the SR71. Nobody wanted to go against him and correct him, so SR71 it became; and it was eventually pointed out that "SR" could stand for Strategic Recon., which was closer to the mission anyhow. So anyone who was paying attention knew about the Blackbirds in the middle sixties....but knew almost *nothing* about them. The corresponding projects recently have been the F117A Nighthawk, which we knew nothing about for the first several years of its existance. Now it is the AURORA/pulser/whatnot that is out tearing around at Mach-god-only-knows and setting off seismographs in the process.... Something to keep in mind - the Blackbird was originally conceived to *replace* the U2 in its role of Soviet overflights. The 1960 shootdown of Francis Gary Powers' U2 made it plainly obvious that the Soviets could reach the U2's, so something that could fly higher and considerably faster was needed. By the time the US had promised to make no more *manned* overflights, the Blackbirds were well on their way. The mission was thus altered, essentially to go overfly other folks! And they did. The CIA's A12 Blackbirds DID overfly North Vietnam for a short time before the SR71's became operational. It is quite possible that some A12's flew operational missions elsewhere, although much about the A12's has never been made public. We *do* know that there was some interest in using them over Cuba in 1964. That was scrubbed and U2's continued to be used in that area. In 1965 the idea was to use them over Communist China. That was evidently back-burnered in 1965 when the North Vietnamese began putting up SAM missile sites around Hanoi. It became brutally obvious that the aerial recon. mission in that area was going to have to change..... On May 16, 1967 President Johnson gave the go ahead for deployment to Kadena, Okinawa for Operation BLACK SHIELD - the airlift began the next day. The first deployed A12 flew to Kadena on May 22, non-stop, in 6 hours and 6 minutes. The unit was operational by May 29th and the first mission is claimed to have been flown on May 31st. It lasted 3 hours and 39 minutes with cruise legs flown at mach 3.1 at 80,000 feet. 70 of the 190 known SAM sites in North Vietnam were photographed as well as nine "other" targets. No radar signals were detected, which suggests that the NV were seriously caught with their pants down. :-) During the A12's deployment, missions were also flown over North Korea. The first of these coincided with the Pueblo incident. In March 1968, the A12's began to be phased out as the SR71's arrived to take over the BLACK SHIELD commitment. By June, most of the A12's went into storage, where they have remained until their recent distribution to museums along with many of the SR71's. As a twist of the language, the CIA referred to the A12 using the code-name OXCART.... Most of the information I have given you here comes from a document "...entitled OXCART History (DON:SC-86-010115), has been UNCLASSIFIED according to Senior Crown Security Class Guide dated 11/01/89, approved and dated 25 Feb. 91." As for where *I* got it from, well, I guess I'll quote the character of Col. Flagg from M*A*S*H* who said, "I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you." :-) Duane Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ucla-cs!ucla-se!seashell!mitch From: mitch@seashell.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Blackbird SR-71 Message-ID: <7496@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> Date: 25 Jun 92 18:57:06 GMT References: <1776f630@nacjack.gen.nz> <1992Jun24.232314.10287@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Sender: news@SEAS.UCLA.EDU Organization: SEASnet, University of California, Los Angeles Lines: 20 In article <1992Jun24.232314.10287@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> wilbur@snapper.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) writes: >Ok, who knows when the blackbird was presented to the general public? A few weeks ago I was invited to a tour of the NASA facility at Edwards AFB. There was an SR-71 on display. We were told that the Blackbird was first made public by LBJ in '64 or '65. Actually, it was originally called the RS-71, but LBJ got it wrong, so the designation was changed so LBJ wouldn't look like a fool. (Hard to imagine that sort of thing happening these days.) At any rate, you guys are confusing the _existance_ of the SR-71 being classified with its performance stats being so. -- DISCLAIMER: | Bob Mitchell "Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown | mitch@ea.ucla.edu "Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman | DOD#[classified] "Computers are ruining this country." --Al Bundy | 1987 VT700c Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6643 alt.conspiracy:16084 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!stanford.edu!leland.Stanford.EDU!edremy From: edremy@leland.Stanford.EDU (eric remy) Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <1992Jun25.194146.27296@leland.Stanford.EDU> Sender: news@leland.Stanford.EDU (Mr News) Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA References: Date: Thu, 25 Jun 92 19:41:46 GMT Lines: 21 In article ingria@BBN.COM writes: >In article garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) writes: > > As I was saying in my previous message before it got deleted...Joan and I > had a good time in Yosemite, the REAL one, that is... > >You mean the aliens have replaced Yosemite, too? The fiends! We're looking at this all wrong: let's see if we can get the greys to build us a few more Yosemites to reduce the overcrowding in the park. Perhaps we should even appoint one of them head of the Park Department... (If they could build one a bit closer to San Jose, I'd really appreciate it.) -- Eric R. edremy@d31ha0.Stanford.EDU Department of Chemistry -1/2\nabla^2\psi_{T-72} Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!demon!cix.compulink.co.uk!asm332 From: asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk (Sean Eaton) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and The Secret Govt (was ANNOUNCEMENT...) Message-ID: Date: 25 Jun 92 20:51:00 GMT Reply-To: asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk Lines: 18 In article , Jon Roland writes: >Most of the new material consisted of audiotapes of interviews with >witnesses who were not identified but who sounded convincing, about the >involvement of relatives in government coverup of its relationship and >activities involving UFOs and aliens. The first was with the alleged >"husband of the daughter-in-law of a recently deceased high NASA >official", both of whom were not identified. Isn't that simply the NASA official's son ? -Sean. --- warlock%spuddy@uknet.ac.uk | as_m332@titan.kingston.ac.uk asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk | sean@mirkwood.kingston.ac.uk -Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatus nunc- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!news!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!cpdw.enet.dec.com!rosch From: rosch@cpdw.enet.dec.com (Ray Rosch) Subject: Re: Blackbird SR-71 Message-ID: <1992Jun25.193216.21663@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> Sender: usenet@nntpd.lkg.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1992 20:29:30 GMT Lines: 15 In article <1992Jun25.170040.8114@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu>, gorski@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu (Tom Gorski) writes... >In article <1992Jun25.100444.41047@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wellison@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes: >> >> >>>Ok, who knows when the blackbird was presented to the general public? >> The SR-71 was introduced to the public by President LB Johnson in the mid 1960's - '66? at the 'skunkworks' **** Disclaimer: Opinions expressed do not in any way reflect those of my employer **** Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6646 alt.conspiracy:16095 sci.skeptic:26374 talk.religion.newage:10520 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!rtfm.mlb.fl.us!john From: john@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (John Blasik) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.newage Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <1992Jun25.225152.17731@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> Date: 25 Jun 92 22:51:52 GMT References: Organization: We don't need no stinkin' batches! Lines: 1 Gary, why does your period (.) key stick? Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6647 alt.conspiracy:16096 sci.skeptic:26375 talk.religion.newage:10521 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.newage Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!rosevax!aquarius!grante From: grante@aquarius (Grant Edwards) Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <1992Jun25.215747.490@rosevax.rosemount.com> Sender: news@rosevax.rosemount.com (USENET News administrator) Nntp-Posting-Host: aquarius Organization: Rosemount, Inc. References: Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1992 21:57:47 GMT Lines: 25 garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) writes: > [] doing...If [] again...When [] dick...Then [] government...I [] > be...I [] cross-eyed...The [] hospital...It [] that...Maybe [] > tonight...The [] destroyed...Utterly [] it... ([] denotes where I deleted stuff) ding-ding-ding-ding -- We've just had a winner in the "Posting With The Most Ellipses Per Line" category. Gary has set a NEW WORLD'S RECORD with a stunning 0.61 !! This guy sounds like a paranoid cross between Zippy The Pinhead and Chris Peterson from "Get A Life." Better yet, I bet Gary is really an elisp program that generates these postings when somebody hits ctrl-X meta-7. (Damn, I suppose he's going to sue me too.) -- Grant Edwards |Yow! WHO sees a BEACH BUNNY Rosemount Inc. |sobbing on a SHAG RUG?! | grante@aquarius.rosemount.com | Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!milkwy.enet.dec.com!trandolph From: trandolph@milkwy.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: re Caution for UFO investig Message-ID: <1992Jun25.220839.3611@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Date: 26 Jun 92 00:59:49 GMT References: <9206241322.AA20401@xuucp.ch.apollo.hp.com> <1992Jun24.235732.15757@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Sender: news@ryn.mro4.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 14 In article <1992Jun24.235732.15757@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, wilbur@snapper.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) writes... >So basically, I guess we never actually landed on the moon. I cant prove it. >Can anyone out there (besides you NASA employees) prove it?? > >Brick What would you accept as proof, short of Moon rocks in your hand? And yes, I could show that those rocks are not likely of Earth origin. There are also the retro-reflectors left on the Lunar surface. All you need is a big laser, and a way to detect the reflection. -Tom R. milkwy.enet.dec.com!trandolph Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!metro!cluster!swift!peg!qolight From: qolight@peg.pegasus.oz.au Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: GULFBREEZE: Don's GB Sighting Repor Message-ID: <422800032@peg> Date: 25 Jun 92 08:19:00 GMT References: <10704705@1992Jun18.003218.7153@bilver.uuc> Lines: 11 Nf-ID: #R:1992Jun18.003218.7153@bilver.uuc:-1070470575:peg:422800032:000:276 Nf-From: peg.pegasus.oz.au!qolight Jun 25 03:19:00 1992 dear Rod Beckwith.... A sincere thanks for the chuckle @ 3:20am here in Melbourne Australia... .....Ah the Illusion of Knowledge..... A reminder that true scientific wisdom come's to those who know how to say..... I Don't Know........... Regards (No Fancy Sig) Photon Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!balrog!ctron.com From: smith@ctron.com (Larry Smith) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party Message-ID: <4429@balrog.ctron.com> Date: 25 Jun 92 21:36:47 GMT References: Sender: root@balrog.ctron.com Reply-To: smith@ctron.com Organization: Cabletron Systems, Inc. Lines: 21 Nntp-Posting-Host: glinda In article , dford@cix.compulink.co.uk (David Ford) writes: > >UFOs DO exist. I am a pilot and can honestly say I have seen a few. The thing >I cannot decide apon is weather these UFOs are regular aircraft that for some >reason appear distorted, or secret milatary aircraft that shouldn't be >recognised, or genuine extra terreatrial space/aircraft. I fall into cat.3 David, when a true believer says "ufo" he means "an alien spacecraft", he does NOT mean "an unidentified flying object that might possibly be an alien space- craft but might also be a weather balloon. That's why I never capitalize the word "ufo", and I pronounce it "you-foe". We really need a word that means what "UFO" used to, the way you used it above, but let's face it, "ufo" has been annexed. I'd suggest NAO, for Non-categorized Ariel Object. Sounds more neutral and less mysterious. Larry Smith (smith@ctron.com) No, I don't speak for Cabletron. ------------------------------------------------------------- Daily I'd go over to Congress - that grand old benevolent national asylum - and report on the inmates there. Never seen a body of men with tongues more handy, or information more uncertain. If one of those men had been present when the Diety was on the point of saying "Let there be light" we never would've had it. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6651 alt.conspiracy:16103 sci.skeptic:26379 talk.religion.newage:10522 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!uqcspe!cs.uq.oz.au!rhys From: rhys@cs.uq.oz.au (Rhys Weatherley) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.newage Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <9126@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> Date: 26 Jun 92 00:42:16 GMT References: Sender: news@cs.uq.oz.au Reply-To: rhys@cs.uq.oz.au Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Lines: 18 In garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) writes: >I am up late tonight, and just thought I would let you all know what I am >planning on doing...If and when I get the real Joan back, we are going to >go back to Tallahassee together again...When I get there, I will >immediately file a complaint with the police against the hospital that cut >up my dick...Then I will look around for a lawyer who will help me with my >lawsuit against all the hospitals and the government...I don't really care Unfortunately Gary, your lawyer has already been cloned, so you don't have a chance. Rhys. P.S: :-) -- Rhys Weatherley, University of Queensland, Australia. rhys@cs.uq.oz.au "I'm a FAQ nut - what's your problem?" Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!sys6626!gstimp From: gstimp@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Gary Stollman (computer hacking) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 25 Jun 92 19:15:29 CST Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB Lines: 9 Interesting story, Gary. You should get together with Cliff Stoll, you'd make a great team. Hey, amazing.. your last names start with "Stoll"! Hmm.. Gary ;--- (Gary Stimpson) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64 ;E-mail: gstimp@sys6626.bison.mb.ca ;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8 Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6653 alt.conspiracy:16112 sci.skeptic:26393 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.n Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!isis.cs.du.edu!arsmith From: arsmith@isis.cs.du.edu (alan smith) Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <1992Jun26.043220.14917@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users. Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account) Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. References: <1992Jun25.215747.490@rosevax. Date: Fri, 26 Jun 92 04:32:20 GMT Lines: 20 > [Lots of Gary Stollman bashing left out] Gary seems to be something of a tradition around here. (Lord knows, we can't get rid of him). Every week or two he posts one of his INVASION!!! storys and half a dozen people go GaryBashing. Now, I don't pretend to BELIEVE him, (I admit, I once heard a wierd phone click when I was calling for a ride home and I went `oh, no, it's the clones! Hee, hee.') but, since there's no convincing the dude, maybe whe shouldn't make attacks on his person. I have it on good authority (his) that he was in the mental hospital at least twice, so maybe we should give the dude a break. And suggest he take his stuff to alt.conspiracys, they'd like it. Sci.skeptic is kind of a bad forum for him. >> "And sue the hospital that cut up my dick." [something like that] Eeeeew! Ow! Big Al Who doesn't have their signature obnoxious enough yet. (that's Parody, laughing WITH him. I hope) Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy!vancleef From: vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Gary Stollman (computer hacking) Message-ID: <12717.2a4a8a6e@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> Date: 26 Jun 92 03:09:34 EDT References: Lines: 20 In article , gstimp@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) writes: > Interesting story, Gary. You should get together with Cliff Stoll, you'd > make a great team. Hey, amazing.. your last names start with "Stoll"! > Hmm.. > > Gary > > ;--- (Gary Stimpson) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64 > ;E-mail: gstimp@sys6626.bison.mb.ca > ;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8 Un-huh, and your name is Gary! And ends with an -n-. (OH NO, Not ANOTHER CLONE!) *GET AWAY FROM ME, YOU HAVE AIDS!* :) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: Gary Stollman (computer hacking) Message-ID: Organization: Between a rock and a type specimen sheet, Boston. References: Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1992 07:48:21 GMT Lines: 9 In article gstimp@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) writes: >Interesting story, Gary. You should get together with Cliff Stoll, you'd >make a great team. Hey, amazing.. your last names start with "Stoll"! >Hmm.. Isn't Gary Stollman the author of GNU EMACS? -- K. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!uwm.edu!csd4.csd.uwm.edu!markh From: markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark William Hopkins) Subject: Re: Gary Stollman (computer hacking) Message-ID: <1992Jun26.101929.23441@uwm.edu> Sender: news@uwm.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee References: Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1992 10:19:29 GMT Lines: 7 In article gstimp@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) writes: >Interesting story, Gary. You should get together with Cliff Stoll, you'd >make a great team. Hey, amazing.. your last names start with "Stoll"! ... >;--- (Gary Stimpson) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64 Hey, amazing! Your names are practically identical! Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6657 sci.skeptic:26408 alt.paranormal:5332 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!rutgers!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers! Message-ID: <1992Jun26.124830.15610@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: 26 Jun 92 12:48:30 GMT References: <10704705@1992Jun18.003218.7153@bilver.uuc> <422800031@peg> <-7rljwb.sheaffer@netcom.com> <1992Jun25.145602.210@baarsa.bell-atl.com> Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Lines: 15 Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com Kretmar, Where do you get this information?Please respond..... Rod -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6658 alt.conspiracy:16125 sci.skeptic:26409 talk.religion.newage:10527 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.newage Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!tamsun.tamu.edu!zeus.tamu.edu!jmd9888 From: THE PEOPLE OF THE NET Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <26JUN199208435804@zeus.tamu.edu> News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Sender: jmd9888@zeus.tamu.edu (DURHAM, JAMES MICHAEL) Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services References: <12704.2a491adb@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1992 13:43:00 GMT Lines: 20 >In article , garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) writes: >> I AM NOW UNABLE TO GET THROUGH TO THIS BBS VIA MY PC-PURSUIT ACCESS...WHEN >> I TRY IT SAYS "NO DIAL TONE", WHEN THE LINE IS OPEN AND CLEAR...I AM USING >> REGULAR PHONE SERVICE TO MAKE THIS CALL...BEWARE, HUMANS!!! BE AWARE!!! >> >> Gary Stollman >> >> This is from >> garys@bluemoon.rn.com >> who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet To The Garys of the world; I am not sure what it is that you are trying to do....I could care less. However I am concerned when you fell the need for attention and the only why that you can get it is through this pathetic cry. Please stay off the net, your obnoxious even with out a signature. Michael Durham Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!rpi!vccsouth26.its.rpi.edu!useret4 From: me Subject: a different look Message-ID: <#d6wmmc@rpi.edu> Sender: useret4@vccsouth26.its.rpi.edu (Temp3 Usere) Nntp-Posting-Host: vccsouth26.its.rpi.edu Reply-To: useret4@rpi.edu Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY. Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1992 14:16:35 GMT Lines: 15 the only thing this group is doing is trying to fight over things that it doesn't know about. Everything about NASA and reports of ufos can't be proven so you are all beating a dead horse. I believe that there are aliens and unfortunately I belive that I have been abducted. (If I am right it it the scariest experience not because what they do, which is bad, but that you have no controll over it and can't tell when it will happen next). I would use hypnosi s but what if I found out it is true. What can I do to stop it again? But then again maybe there are no such things as aliens and I just had a very ba d dream... The same dream my brother has... only thing I know is I am scared. me Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6660 alt.conspiracy:16131 sci.skeptic:26431 talk.religion.newage:10529 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!torn!cunews!revcan!software.mitel.com!meier From: meier@Software.Mitel.COM (Rolf Meier) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.newage Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <12135@rehder> Date: 26 Jun 92 13:46:18 GMT References: <1992Jun25.215747.490@rosevax.rosemount.com> Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada. Lines: 19 In article <1992Jun25.215747.490@rosevax.rosemount.com> grante@aquarius (Grant Edwards) writes: >This guy sounds like a paranoid cross between Zippy The Pinhead and >Chris Peterson from "Get A Life." >-- >Grant Edwards |Yow! WHO sees a BEACH BUNNY >Rosemount Inc. |sobbing on a SHAG RUG?! You don't get it. How incredible do Gary's postings have to get before you realize that they are a parody of the UFO/alien/invasion cult scene? Heiress to the Vaseline fortune? If that isn't a clue for you then I don't know what is. _____________________________________________________________________ Rolf Meier Mitel Corporation "Everything You Know Is Wrong" Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6661 sci.skeptic:26432 alt.paranormal:5333 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!ukma!widener!dsinc!bagate!baarsa!bb6d9cj From: bb6d9cj@baarsa.bell-atl.com (Kretmar) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers! Message-ID: <1992Jun26.153041.19892@baarsa.bell-atl.com> Date: 26 Jun 92 15:30:41 GMT References: <10704705@1992Jun18.003218.7153@bilver.uuc> <422800031@peg> <-7rljwb.sheaffer@netcom.com> <1992Jun25.145602.210@baarsa.bell-atl.com> <1992Jun26.124830.15610@odin.corp.sgi.com> Organization: Bell Atlantic Lines: 111 In article <1992Jun26.124830.15610@odin.corp.sgi.com> rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: >Kretmar, > Where do you get this information?Please respond..... >Rod The time indicated was a joke, sorry, however, events are currently taking place that will include a greater understanding of UFO's and direct contact with "Space Brothers". These events center around the emergence of a world teacher, Maitreya. *** Re - Post of information regarding Maitreya **** All the great religions posit the idea of a further revelation to be given by a future teacher. Christians hope for the return of the Christ, the Buddhists look for the coming of another Buddha (the Lord Maitreya), while Muslims await the Imam Mahdi, the Hindus a reincarnation of Krishna, and the Jews the Messiah. Students of the esoteric tradition know all these as different names for the same individual - the Lord Maitreya, the World Teacher, the head of the Spiritual Hierarchy of Masters, and they look for His imminent return now. According the British artist, esotericist and author Benjamin Creme, Maitreya emerged from His centre in the Himalayas in July 1977. At that time he took up residence in the Pakistani-Indian community of London. Since this time he has been preparing for the time when he will be able to appear openly in the world. Maitreya does not intend to build a new religion around Himself, nor to create followers, but to teach humanity "the art of Self- realization". The first steps are "honesty of mind, sincerity of spirit and detachment." Maitreya's immediate priorities are an adequate supply of the right food, adequate housing and shelter for all, healthcare and education as a universal right. His social message can be summarized in a few words: "Share and save the world." Benjamin Creme receives his information through a telepathic rapport he shares with a senior member of the hierarchy of the Masters of Wisdom of which Maitreya is the head. He has been trained for his role in the reappearance since 1959. Their are also two journalists, Patricia Pitchon and Brian James, working independently, who have interviews with one of Maitreya's close associates. They provide forecasts of world events given by Maitreya. Many events which we see today are a direct result of the outflow of energy into the world from Maitreya. These include the wave of freedom breaking out around the world demonstrated by the destruction of the Berlin wall and the recent events in the Soviet Union as well as many other occurences in different counties. There are also various spiritual signs for those who need them. Beginning in California and now in various places around the world "Crosses of Light" are appearing in household windows. There is an outbrake of weeping statues and pictures in many places around the world. Also, visions of the Virgin Mary are becoming more numerous and reported by the media. Maitreya has also appeared to many people himself. On June 11th, 1988 Maitreya appeared miraculously, `out of the blue', at an open air prayer/ healing meeting in Nairobi, Kenya. He was photographed addressing (in their own language) thousands of people who instantly recognized Him as the Christ. The occurence was reported on by CNN, and two of Japan's largest newspapers. He now plans to show Himself in this way to large numbers of people in different counties around the world. He has already made various appearances in front of large crowds recently. On September 29th, 1991 and January 29th, 1992 he appeared in front of 500-600 people at religious meetings in Mexico City. On March 1st, 1992 he appeared in Moscow, Russia in front of 700 Orthodox Catholics. In each case he spoke to them in their own language. In Moscow 600 of the people believed he was the Christ, also pictures weCasey Kretmarthe local media was notified. Most recently on Sunday March 22th he appeared in Germany. Maitreya has been pleased with the reactions of his appearances and plans to continue this effort. He expects this to lead to reports of his presence in a greater scale and pressure by the public on the media to investigate his presence. This will lead to the "Day of Declaration". On this day, the satellites will hook up all the networks of the world and Maitreya will appear on TV. We will all see his face on the screen but he will communicate to everyone telepathically, in his/her own language, and let us know why he is here. It will then be up to us to decide whether or not we will accept his help. If we do accept his help he will guide us but it is us who will have to change the world into a more equitable place inplace of one in which millions of people starve in a world of plenty. *************Disclaimer********************** This post in no way relflects the opinions of Bell Atlantc or New Jersey Bell ******************************************** >-- >Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ >Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, >rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." > |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!news.dell.com!dellunix!uudell!bigtex!texsun!cronkite.Central.Sun.COM!news2me.ebay.sun.com!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr From: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party Message-ID: Date: 25 Jun 92 03:07:16 GMT References: <1992Jun24.203708.11489@news.eng.convex.com> Reply-To: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Lines: 32 NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com In article 11489@news.eng.convex.com, swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) writes: >In my opinion, the most serious problem for long-term underground dwelling >(millions-billions of years) is not materials waste, but heat waste. > >If your civilization depends upon the heat differential between the core >of the planet and the surface for its energy needs, then it must not heat >the planetary surface at a faster rate than the heat can be dissipated >by the surface > >Presumably there is already a heat transfer occuring naturally as heat >diffuses from the core to the surface. In order to obtain work one >would have to perform additional heat transfer, resulting in a higher >surface temperature. >For small amounts of work the effect would be negligible >Then add to this the energy requirements of the daily life of this >hypothetical civilization (such as transportation, manufacturing, etc.). Some good points, but the projected energy requirements for my proposed starship-cities would be fairly low. Very little transportation or manufacturing would be needed. It would help if the planet had surface water or an atmosphere to carry away waste heat, but even those things are not essential. It would be possible to build such cities under even such harsh conditions as those that prevail on Venus. Very small energy gradients would be sufficient. --- jdr@starflight.corp.sun.com, starflt@uunet.uu.net Jon Roland Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A, Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!news.dell.com!dellunix!uudell!bigtex!texsun!cronkite.Central.Sun.COM!news2me.ebay.sun.com!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr From: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party Message-ID: Date: 25 Jun 92 02:53:13 GMT References: <#6rl3v+.payner@netcom.com> Reply-To: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Lines: 74 NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com In article payner@netcom.com, payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes: >In article jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM writes: >>As it turns out, the best places in the Universe for life to flourish >>(although not to first appear) are the interiors of planetary bodies >>that contain enough radioisotopes to maintain a long-duration thermal >>gradient between their molten interiors and their surfaces, not the >>surfaces of planets, or asteroids in deep space >While this would provide a self-heating enviornment, I have a question. >Where will they get fresh water and food? I am not aware of any way to >produce organics from rock There may be some regions of the galaxy deficient in metals, which are needed in trace amounts for life, and in larger amounts for a technical economy, and small planets close to stars may be deficient in readily- accessible volatiles, like hydrogen and oxygen, but it can be expected that in most regions of the galaxy, and in planetary systems beyond a certain distance, suitable abundances of necessary elements would prevail. A carbonaceous chondrite is rock, but grind it up and it would make good soil and support a carbon cycle. Most planets will probably be covered by a thick layer of frozen volatiles, including water, ammonia, and methane. Of course, a planet deficient in metals would also not have a molten interior or a thermal gradient to support life. >>also possible that it could be done using more conventional physics >>through a process I call bosonic propulsion, in which an entire vehicle >>would be put into a bosonic state, like the Cooper pairs of electrons >>in superconductivity, so that they could pass between their underground >>cities and outer space without having to have access ports through the >>ground, and, indeed, to be invisible while traveling in that mode. >>Such a life-style would probably leave no trace on the surfaces of the >>planets they inhabit, unless there was some side-effect like crop >>circles. > >Do you really think that this is the case, or are you just speculating >out loud? (so to speak) It is informed speculation, based on a working knowledge of the physical theory. I have run it by more advanced physicists, who have not come back with any immediate rejection of the possibility on theoretical grounds. >>We could have a million underground alien cities, each housing a >>million aliens, and never know it if they chose not to reveal >>themselves. They could have been here for billions of years. > >If they are organic, what do they eat? And where does a billion years >of waste go? Re-cycling is not 100% efficient, there must be some >waste, and some requirement for new materials. As I have proposed in other postings, near-100% recycling efficiency is possible and is recommended for future starship-cities, whether traveling through space or stationed on a planet. Such efficiency is easier if the cities are sited underground. It does not require radically new technology, just good design and careful operation. >It would seem to me that -if- such an ET race had gone >to all the trouble to get here, they would likely show -some- interest >in the local's, even if they considered them to be animals. They may not need to reveal themselves to study us, and indeed, we might lose much of our value as subjects if they did. Less mature members of their communities (their "kids") might be less attentive to this protocol. >Rich (wondering abour the "Starflight Corporation") The Starflight Corporation is my computer consulting firm. --- jdr@starflight.corp.sun.com, starflt@uunet.uu.net Jon Roland Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A, Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141 Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6664 sci.skeptic:26438 alt.paranormal:5334 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers! Message-ID: <1992Jun26.181833.26763@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: 26 Jun 92 18:18:33 GMT References: <10704705@1992Jun18.003218.7153@bilver.uuc> <422800031@peg> <-7rljwb.sheaffer@netcom.com> <1992Jun25.145602.210@baarsa.bell-atl.com> <1992Jun26.124830.15610@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1992Jun26.153041.19892@baarsa.bell-atl.com> Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Lines: 14 Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com HA?HA? Thanks for the quick response.Although there seems to be more joking on this group than serious research. Oh well...........can't teach an old dog new tricks. Then again Rome wasn't built over night. Rod -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6665 sci.skeptic:26440 alt.paranormal:5335 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!ames!agate!overload.lbl.gov!s1.gov!lip From: lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: End-of-the-world messiahs? (Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers!) Message-ID: <1992Jun26.182514.8869@s1.gov> Date: 26 Jun 92 18:25:14 GMT References: <1992Jun25.145602.210@baarsa.bell-atl.com> <1992Jun26.124830.15610@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1992Jun26.153041.19892@baarsa.bell-atl.com> Sender: usenet@s1.gov Organization: LLNL Lines: 31 Nntp-Posting-Host: s1.gov Buddhist Maitreya == Hindu Krishna == Muslim Mahdi == Jesus Christ's Second Coming... I think that this identification will be a big surprise to advocates of some of these creeds. Christian Fundies certainly do not think that Jesus Christ is any of these other folk, to put it mildly. The same for Muslims about the Imam Mahdi. And what will happen for Marxists? Will Karl Marx, Friedrich Engels, and Vladimir Lenin rise from the dead? And what about religions without prophesied messiahs, which include most pagan ones? Was there a classical Greek Messiah? An Old Norse Messiah? An Egyptian Messiah? A Mesopotamian Messiah? And Hinduism itself? Its earliest works are rather short on Messiah figures. And let us not forget the Native American Ghost Dance. This movement, which started among late 19th cy. Midwestern Native Americans whose land had been overrun and whose buffalo had been slaughtered, taught that NA's should reject the Palefaces' ways, especially alcohol. Its rituals involved dancing to commune with the ghosts of the dear departed ancestors, and also to get a glimpse of the future -- a world in which all those Palefaces would be gotten rid of. Some of the Ghost Dancers thought that the ghost shirts that they danced in were bulletproof, only to receive an unpleasant surprise when confronted with actual bullets. (Yes, I know, I know, this movement sounds like Sister Souljah :-) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!darwin.sura.net!convex!convex!swarren From: swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party Message-ID: <1992Jun26.184613.18628@news.eng.convex.com> Sender: usenet@news.eng.convex.com (news access account) Nntp-Posting-Host: neptune.convex.com Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA References: <1992Jun24.203708.11489@news.eng.convex.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1992 18:46:13 GMT X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and not necessarily those of CONVEX. Lines: 32 In article jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM writes: >It would help if the planet had surface water or an atmosphere to carry >away waste heat, but even those things are not essential. It would be >possible to build such cities under even such harsh conditions as those >that prevail on Venus. Very small energy gradients would be sufficient. No, the heat has to escape the whole planet, which means anything between the planet and the vacuum of space is not helping, it is acting as an insulator to keep the heat in. Planets cool by radiating. Atmospheres reflect/absorb radiation at varying rates, depending on the elements and densities in the atmosphere. And I still maintain that the biggest bill will be tha airconditioning bill. >Very little transportation or manufacturing would be needed. OK, you posit an advanced civilization whose very survival depends on massive heat engines and airconditioning, as well as all sorts of other devices (for farming, for recreation, for excavation, etc.) The entire environment would be 100% artificial. Then you say, "Very little transportation or manufacturing would be needed." I don't think you have a very realistic concept of the energy requirements of a civilization in which not "very little," but everything, is manufactured. -- _. --Steve ._||__ Welcome to the World's First GaAs Supercomputer Warren v\ *| ----------------------------------------------- V Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!darwin.sura.net!convex!convex!swarren From: swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party Message-ID: <1992Jun26.185232.29152@news.eng.convex.com> Sender: usenet@news.eng.convex.com (news access account) Nntp-Posting-Host: neptune.convex.com Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA References: <#6rl3v+.payner@netcom.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1992 18:52:32 GMT X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and not necessarily those of CONVEX. Lines: 15 In article jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM writes: [...] >It is informed speculation, based on a working knowledge of the physical >theory. I have run it by more advanced physicists, who have not come back >with any immediate rejection of the possibility on theoretical grounds. I'm afraid that theoretical physics is not going to help you much when attempting to understand if it is feasible to build a huge comglomeration of technology such as you are suggesting. This is an engineering problem (Actually an incredibly large number of engineering problems). -- _. --Steve ._||__ Welcome to the World's First GaAs Supercomputer Warren v\ *| ----------------------------------------------- V Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!news2me.ebay.sun.com!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr From: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and The Secret Govt (was ANNOUNCEM Date: 26 Jun 1992 00:35:12 GMT Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Lines: 23 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: Reply-To: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com In article 492684@cix.compulink.co.uk, asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk (Sean Eaton) writes: > >In article , Jon Roland writes: > >>Most of the new material consisted of audiotapes of interviews with >>witnesses who were not identified but who sounded convincing, about the >>involvement of relatives in government coverup of its relationship and >>activities involving UFOs and aliens. The first was with the alleged >>"husband of the daughter-in-law of a recently deceased high NASA >>official", both of whom were not identified. > >Isn't that simply the NASA official's son ? No, apparently the daughter-in-law remarried, and her new husband became friends with the father of his wife's previous husband. --- jdr@starflight.corp.sun.com, starflt@uunet.uu.net Jon Roland Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A, Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!arizona.edu!skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu!lippard From: lippard@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu (James J. Lippard) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <26JUN199212554296@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu> Date: 26 Jun 92 19:55:00 GMT Article-I.D.: skyblu.26JUN199212554296 References: <9126@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Distribution: world,local Organization: University of Arizona Lines: 21 Nntp-Posting-Host: skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 In article <9126@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au>, rhys@cs.uq.oz.au writes... >In garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) writes: > >>I am up late tonight, and just thought I would let you all know what I am >>planning on doing...If and when I get the real Joan back, we are going to >>go back to Tallahassee together again...When I get there, I will >>immediately file a complaint with the police against the hospital that cut >>up my dick...Then I will look around for a lawyer who will help me with my >>lawsuit against all the hospitals and the government...I don't really care > >Unfortunately Gary, your lawyer has already been cloned, so you don't have >a chance. Don't pay any attention to all that talk of complaints and lawsuits--that's the fake Gary talking. You can tell by the clicking noise your computer makes right before the message comes up. Jim Lippard Lippard@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU Dept. of Philosophy Lippard@ARIZVMS.BITNET University of Arizona Tucson, AZ 85721 Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!msus1.msus.edu!msus1.msus.edu!news Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Blackbird SR-71 (pilot) Message-ID: <1992Jun26.161628.776@msus1.msus.edu> From: Stafford@Vax2.Winona.MSUS.EDU (John) Date: 26 Jun 92 16:16:27 -0600 Distribution: world Organization: msus Nntp-Posting-Host: stafford.winona.msus.edu Lines: 11 One of the Blackbird pilots is from here, a brother of one of our staff members. From what I've heard, there was little thrill in flying one of them but a great thrill to say you _have_ flown one. It appears that all attention is to the instruments (why'd they even put a window on this thing?) and that at speed the plane's altitute could vacillate as much as 3,000 feet. (His name is Sam Gudmonson.) more trivia, humm. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6671 sci.skeptic:26457 alt.paranormal:5336 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!ncar!noao!arizona!tzf From: tzf@cs.arizona.edu (Theron Friedman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: End-of-the-world messiahs? (Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers!) Message-ID: <18457@optima.cs.arizona.edu> Date: 26 Jun 92 21:45:08 GMT References: <1992Jun25.145602.210@baarsa.bell-atl.com> <1992Jun26.124830.15610@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1992Jun26.153041.19892@baarsa.bell-atl.com> <1992Jun26.182514.8869@s1.gov> Sender: news@cs.arizona.edu Reply-To: tzf@csl.biosci.arizona.edu Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Organization: U of Arizona, CS Dept, Tucson Lines: 38 In article <1992Jun26.182514.8869@s1.gov>, lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes: |> |> And what will happen for Marxists? Will Karl Marx, Friedrich |> Engels, and Vladimir Lenin rise from the dead? |> |> And what about religions without prophesied messiahs, which |> include most pagan ones? |> |> Was there a classical Greek Messiah? An Old Norse Messiah? An |> Egyptian Messiah? A Mesopotamian Messiah? And Hinuism itself? Its |> earliest works are rather short on Messiah figures. |> ..... a truly big-hearted messiah would redeem everyone, whether they wanted to believe in Her or not. So Benjamin Creme is still around is he? He was going around lecturing in the mid '80's about Maitreya's imminent (re-)appearance. But the day when he was supposed to make himself known and simultaneously broadcast on all networks, to each in hir own language, was well before 1985 (Hmm, my memory for exact dates is dim: I may have heard him lecture even before 1980, in which case the predicted arrival might have even been in the late '70's). Anyhow, the announced date came & went, no Maitreya nohow. Finally Creme held a press conference, announced that instead of going public as originally announced Maitreya had alit in the immigrant communities in London and expected the world's reporters to come and hunt him out. I was dragged to a Creme lecture by one of my friends, and he was quite explicit about a "no later than" date when Maitreya would manifest - I may forget the dates (hey, who bothers to remember no-shows?) but am definite about the promises. And the missed deadline. As I remember, a little (usually not very skeptical) publication titled "New Age" or "New Age Journal" had an article or two during and after the missed appearance, in case anyone is interested in looking it up. - terry friedman Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6672 alt.conspiracy:16153 sci.skeptic:26458 talk.religion.newage:10530 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!udel!gvls1!tredysvr!cellar!revpk From: revpk@cellar.org (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.newage Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: Date: 26 Jun 92 18:44:25 GMT References: Sender: bbs@cellar.org (The Cellar BBS) Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system Lines: 12 garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) writes: > I AM NOW UNABLE TO GET THROUGH TO THIS BBS VIA MY PC-PURSUIT ACCESS...WHEN > I TRY IT SAYS "NO DIAL TONE", WHEN THE LINE IS OPEN AND CLEAR...I AM USING > REGULAR PHONE SERVICE TO MAKE THIS CALL...BEWARE, HUMANS!!! BE AWARE!!! > Be still, my beating heart... Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano revpk@cellar.org New Sig File Under Construction-- Light and Compact for your Usenet Pleasure. "The recent problem with the satellite retrieval managed to prove one thing; DeVries graduates really _do_ work for NASA." Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!oyster.cps.msu.edu!wilbur From: wilbur@oyster.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Caution for UFO investigators Message-ID: <1992Jun26.210615.14431@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Date: 26 Jun 92 21:06:15 GMT References: <9206251309.AA24902@xuucp.ch.apollo.hp.com> Sender: news@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University Lines: 72 In article <9206251309.AA24902@xuucp.ch.apollo.hp.com>, nelson_p@APOLLO.HP.COM writes: |> |> |> |> From: swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) |> |> I think he posted it because you asked about hard evidence, and |> >this is one area in the subject of UFO's where there is hard |> >evidence (not of the existence of extraterrestrials per-se - |> >but of a lot of surreptiteous scurrying around by US intelligence |> >personel who seem very paranoid about people who believe in them). |> >The evidence is documented through official FOA reports from the |> >government. Seems pretty straightforward to me. What is obscure |> >about the connection? |> |> Because he didn't make one! He didn't offer any evidence |> that the government has any special interest in UFO research, |> *per se*. As I said before, there is nothing startling about |> the government having a special interest in people who snoop |> around Air Force bases with sophisticated camera or video |> equipment, or who are constantly filing for FOIA documents |> related to same. |> |> Moreover, we have, and have had in the past, a very snoopy |> government who maintain files on all kinds of groups and |> individuals. I'll bet most of us who post anything political |> or controversial on Usenet, or who have been activist members |> of any of a number of political or special interest organizations |> have files somewhere in Washington. So this proves nothing about |> any connection with UFO's. |> |> |> |> And to the other poster who thought we'd never been to the moon -- |> |> When UFO enthusiasts come up with video footage as good as NASA |> provided, come up with a story credible enough to fool all the |> major networks, provide physical evidence as good as the "moon |> rocks" that NASA came up with, and leave other physical evidence |> as good as the LASER inferometer left on the moon that any lab |> with a decent LASER can get a bounce from, then get back to us. |> Until then: get real! |> |> |> |> ---peter |> |> |> Guys, (I'm still playing devils advocate) You still dont show me proof! You say that, *they say* there is a laser inferometer left on the moon. Prove to me that we left something on the moon. You are telling me what other people say is so. As for the video footage as good as NASA's. Don't you think that they could manufacture that kind of fake footage?? I've seen soom really good fake UFO picts. But they are made to look real. Still no proof has been demonstrated, by you, the general public, that we have been on the moon... Brick Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!oyster.cps.msu.edu!wilbur From: wilbur@oyster.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: re Caution for UFO investig Message-ID: <1992Jun26.211800.16497@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Date: 26 Jun 92 21:18:00 GMT References: <9206241322.AA20401@xuucp.ch.apollo.hp.com> <1992Jun24.235732.15757@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <1992Jun25.220839.3611@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Sender: news@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University Lines: 30 In article <1992Jun25.220839.3611@ryn.mro4.dec.com>, trandolph@milkwy.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) writes: |> |> In article <1992Jun24.235732.15757@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, wilbur@snapper.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) writes... |> >So basically, I guess we never actually landed on the moon. I cant prove it. |> >Can anyone out there (besides you NASA employees) prove it?? |> > |> >Brick |> |> What would you accept as proof, short of Moon rocks in your hand? |> And yes, I could show that those rocks are not likely of Earth origin. Devil advocate: Could these rocks be manufactured here on earth, and stated that these are the *kind* of rock that are *really* on the moon? Because, we, the general public, would never be able to prove that these rocks didnt come from the moon. |> |> There are also the retro-reflectors left on the Lunar surface. All you need is |> a big laser, and a way to detect the reflection. DA: Who's to say that there aren't natural rocks on the moon that could reflect laser light back to earth? |> |> -Tom R. milkwy.enet.dec.com!trandolph We still haven't proved that we have been to the moon. Brick Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rice!ricevm1.rice.edu!LINSCOT From: LINSCOT@ricevm1.rice.edu (Stephen M. Linscott) Subject: Re: re Caution for UFO investig Message-ID: <16812FF67.LINSCOT@ricevm1.rice.edu> Sender: news@rice.edu (News) Organization: Rice University, Houston, TX References: <9206241322.AA20401@xuucp.ch.apollo.hp.com> <1992Jun24.235732.15757@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <1992Jun25.220839.3611@ryn.mro4.dec.com> <1992Jun26.211800.16497@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1992 23:09:15 GMT Lines: 19 In article <1992Jun26.211800.16497@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> wilbur@oyster.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) writes: > >In article <1992Jun25.220839.3611@ryn.mro4.dec.com>, trandolph@milkwy.enet.dec.om (Tom Randolph) writes: >|> >|> In article <1992Jun24.235732.15757@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, wilbur@snapper.cps.mu.edu (Richard Wilbur) writes... >|> [stuff deleted] > > >We still haven't proved that we have been to the moon. > >Brick > Brick - Can you prove (ON THE NETWORK) that you exist? - Steve - Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!rpi!palmj From: palmj@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Jyri L. Palm) Subject: NASA UFO video on Larry King Message-ID: <-y6w_bl@rpi.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: marcus.its.rpi.edu Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1992 01:05:51 GMT Lines: 7 I hope this gets posted in time to alert some people...the NASA UFO thing is going to be covered on Larry King about 9:25 PM on CNN. Details to follow after the show... This is tonight...now...Friday June 26... Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6677 alt.conspiracy:16162 sci.skeptic:26476 talk.religion.newage:10531 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.newage Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!rosevax!aquarius!grante From: grante@aquarius (Grant Edwards) Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <1992Jun26.233540.2422@rosevax.rosemount.com> Sender: news@rosevax.rosemount.com (USENET News administrator) Nntp-Posting-Host: aquarius Organization: Rosemount, Inc. References: <12135@rehder> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1992 23:35:40 GMT Lines: 27 meier@Software.Mitel.COM (Rolf Meier) writes: : grante@aquarius (Grant Edwards) writes: : : >This guy sounds like a paranoid cross between Zippy The Pinhead and : >Chris Peterson from "Get A Life." : : You don't get it. : : How incredible do Gary's postings have to get before you realize that : they are a parody of the UFO/alien/invasion cult scene? : I got it. Like Zippy and Chris aren't parodies? I realized after the second posting that Gary's INVASION stuff is satire, but it's more fun if you play along a little. On the other hand, there's no rule that prevents schizophrenics from having access to usenet either, so I must admit that there is a very slim chance that Gary believes what he posts. -- Grant Edwards |Yow! I'm having an EMOTIONAL Rosemount Inc. |OUTBURST!! But, uh, WHY is |there a WAFFLE in my PAJAMA grante@aquarius.rosemount.com |POCKET?? Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!mips!pacbell.com!att!rutgers!uwm.edu!caen!hellgate.utah.edu!csn!boulder!ucsu!cubldr.colorado.edu!crago_l From: crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Closed Abductee Conference Message-ID: <1992Jun26.152316.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> Date: 26 Jun 92 22:23:16 GMT References: <138782.2A479C12@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Sender: news@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (USENET News System) Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Lines: 44 Nntp-Posting-Host: gold.colorado.edu In article <138782.2A479C12@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>, Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) writes: > > > But seriously, if abduction research is going even *more* underground, > > then > > it is becoming more and more like alchemy in the Middle Ages. Every > > researcher > > will have his own secret base of knowledge and will keep it under as > > much > > control as possible to avoid anyone else attaining the Philosopher's > > Stone > > of abduction research (whatever *that* turns out to be). > > > > I find it rather disgusting. It does nothing to garner abductionists > > the > > legitimacy they so desperately seem to crave and *does* tend to give the > > impression that even *they* feel the subject isn't as valid as they want > > us > > to believe. > > I second this. > > Mike > If I understand correctly, the reason for the closed and secretive nature of the conference at MIT was because of the generally hostile environment for people who claim abductions. That hostility includes, of course, ridicule, announcements that it couldn't possibly have happened, et al. Perhaps the way to insure that research doesn't become fragmented and non-legitimate is to work on the present climate surrounding people who go public about their experiences. I think we see the same syndrome on this net. I have spoken privately with a number of people by e-mail who would not post their experiences on the net because of the rude and intolerant debunkers and nay-sayers. The bottom line, IMHO,is that vigorous debunking actually destroys data. IN the sense that it prevents those who have it from making it available. Regards, Lou Crago > -- > Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 > UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name > INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61155@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 92 19:50:49 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61047@cup.portal.com> Lines: 0 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61156@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 92 19:52:22 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61047@cup.portal.com> Lines: 0 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61157@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 92 19:54:19 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61047@cup.portal.com> Lines: 2 CONTOL C OK Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61158@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 92 20:01:50 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <61006@cup.portal.com> Lines: 0 Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6683 sci.skeptic:26477 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Subject: Re: VCR Alert: NASA UFO Debate w/ Oberg, Eckert on "Larry King Live" Message-ID: <-dvl6tl.sheaffer@netcom.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 92 03:18:17 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 27 Better late than never. Not quite two hours ago, James Oberg (skeptic) and Larry Eckert of "UFO Magazine" were the guests on "Larry King Live" (approx 6:30 PM PDT, 9:30 EDT Friday 6-26). The subject was the alleged "NASA Space Shuttle UFOs" that had earlier been seen on Hard Copy. If you saw the show, you know who won the debate. According to my TV listings, "Larry King Live" will be repeated from 1-2 AM PDT (4-5 AM EDT) tomorrow morning. Hopefully it's the same show. The UFO debate is in the second half. -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the table like a card cheat." - Martin Gardner (writing in "Free Inquiry", Spring, 1992) Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6684 sci.systems:104 alt.society.futures:409 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!ames!sun-barr!male.EBay.Sun.COM!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr From: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.systems,alt.society.futures Subject: Starship-Cities (was: Questions from an interested party) Date: 27 Jun 1992 04:34:46 GMT Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Lines: 59 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <1992Jun26.184613.18628@news.eng.convex.com> Reply-To: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com In article 18628@news.eng.convex.com, swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) writes: >In article jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM writes: >>It would help if the planet had surface water or an atmosphere to carry >>away waste heat, but even those things are not essential. It would be >>possible to build such cities under even such harsh conditions as those >>that prevail on Venus. Very small energy gradients would be sufficient. > >No, the heat has to escape the whole planet, which means anything between >the planet and the vacuum of space is not helping, it is acting as an >insulator to keep the heat in. Planets cool by radiating. Atmospheres >reflect/absorb radiation at varying rates, depending on the elements >and densities in the atmosphere. Underground cities would create "hot spots" on the surface, not heat the entire surface, and fluids such as air or water on the surface would disperse the heat by convection and evaporation, creating a larger radiative area. >And I still maintain that the biggest bill will be tha airconditioning >bill. It indeed would be a significant factor but a manageable one. >>Very little transportation or manufacturing would be needed. > >I don't think you have a very realistic concept of the energy requirements >of a civilization in which not "very little," but everything, is manufactured. Designs for such compact cities have been worked out in some detail. The key is that most subsystems are designed for durability and complete recovery of wastes. Much of what we manufacture today would be obviated by the design. No motor vehicles, no highways, no new shelters, little clothing, no newspapers, no disposable containers, no pet products, no paper mail, no household air conditioners, few if any aircraft, little furniture, only a few replacement applicances and consumer electronics and optics, few baby products, no paper books, no printers, copiers, or fax machines, no fencing or landscaping products, little if any luggage, no lumber products, little heavy moving equipment, little packaging products, no pest control products, no film-photographic products, few plastic products, no smoking products, ... Indeed, if you go through the Yellow Pages of any large city, you will find few occupations that will have any place in such cities. Mostly those requiring advanced professional skills. Most of the things most of us do for a living are based on the prevail pattern of scattered living, as are most of the ways we are depleting critical resources and destroying the environment. This subject has been discussed in more detail in the newsgroups sci.environment, sci.systems, and alt.society.futures. If there is sufficient interest, I can post a list of sources of further information on this subject. --- jdr@starflight.corp.sun.com, starflt@uunet.uu.net Jon Roland Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A, Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141 Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6685 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1810 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!news2me.ebay.sun.com!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr From: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Bosonic Transport (was: Questions from an interested party) Date: 27 Jun 1992 04:42:05 GMT Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Lines: 29 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <1992Jun26.185232.29152@news.eng.convex.com> Reply-To: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com In article 29152@news.eng.convex.com, swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) writes: >In article jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM writes: > [...] >>It is informed speculation, based on a working knowledge of the physical >>theory. I have run it by more advanced physicists, who have not come back >>with any immediate rejection of the possibility on theoretical grounds. > >I'm afraid that theoretical physics is not going to help you much when >attempting to understand if it is feasible to build a huge comglomeration >of technology such as you are suggesting. This is an engineering problem >(Actually an incredibly large number of engineering problems). No, but theoretical objections can at least help us avoid fruitless lines of inquiry. In the absence of such objections, one can feel assured that thoughts along this line may someday lead to something useful. In any case, an idea doesn't have to be good to be useful. Some of the best scientific ideas were bad ideas that inspired the development of good ideas. If there is interest in this subject of bosonic transport, I can post a more detailed discussion of the idea. --- jdr@starflight.corp.sun.com, starflt@uunet.uu.net Jon Roland Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A, Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141 Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6686 alt.conspiracy:16169 sci.skeptic:26479 talk.religion.newage:10532 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.newage Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!unislc!erc From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) Subject: Re: INVASION!!! References: <1992Jun26.233540.2422@rosevax.rosemount.com> Message-ID: <1992Jun27.042952.21867@unislc.uucp> Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1992 04:29:52 GMT Lines: 11 grante@aquarius (Grant Edwards) writes: : On the other hand, there's no rule that prevents schizophrenics from : having access to usenet either, so I must admit that there is a very : slim chance that Gary believes what he posts. One never knows, does one? :) He just might! :) -- Ed Carp erc@apple.com <-- preferred email address! "In wildness is the preservation of the world." - John Muir ** Member, Linux port team - uucp division ** :) Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!ubc-cs!unixg.ubc.ca!kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!sys6626!gstimp From: gstimp@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Gary Stollman (computer hacking) Message-ID: <36q1mB1w164w@sys6626.bison.mb.ca> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 92 00:38:01 CST References: <12717.2a4a8a6e@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB Lines: 27 vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes: > In article , gstimp@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Ga > > Interesting story, Gary. You should get together with Cliff Stoll, you'd > > make a great team. Hey, amazing.. your last names start with "Stoll"! > > Hmm.. > > > > Gary > > > > Un-huh, and your name is Gary! And ends with an -n-. (OH NO, Not ANOTHER > CLONE!) > > *GET AWAY FROM ME, YOU HAVE AIDS!* > > :) Shut up, you're ruining the plan! Gary PS: I'm really a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone.. :-) ;--- (Gary Stimpson) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64 ;E-mail: gstimp@sys6626.bison.mb.ca ;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8 Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6688 sci.skeptic:26495 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!Germany.EU.net!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo From: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: VCR Alert: NASA UFO Debate w/ Oberg, Eckert on "Larry King Live" Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System Date: Sat, 27 Jun 92 11:36:17 GMT Message-ID: References: <-dvl6tl.sheaffer@netcom.com> Lines: 39 In <-dvl6tl.sheaffer@netcom.com> sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes: >Better late than never. Not quite two hours ago, James Oberg (skeptic) >and Larry Eckert of "UFO Magazine" were the guests on "Larry King Live" >(approx 6:30 PM PDT, 9:30 EDT Friday 6-26). The subject was the alleged >"NASA Space Shuttle UFOs" that had earlier been seen on Hard Copy. If >you saw the show, you know who won the debate. >According to my TV listings, "Larry King Live" will be repeated from >1-2 AM PDT (4-5 AM EDT) tomorrow morning. Hopefully it's the same >show. The UFO debate is in the second half. >-- > > Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com > Hmm, why are these announcement not posted earlier, so everybody interested in UFOs ahs a chance to watch it ! Over here we do get CNN on our Cable system in Berlin, Germany, so please could somebody post such announcement earlier, when there is something about UFOs on CNN ? I missed it ! Best regards Stefan Hartmann. email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de -- ************************************************************* * Stefan Hartmann This is how to contact me: * * EMAIL: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de * * Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 * ************************************************************* Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Subject: Re: BOB LAZAR? Message-ID: Date: Sat, 27 Jun 92 16:52:49 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1992Jun24.113140.19181@odin.corp.sgi.com> Lines: 59 In article <1992Jun24.113140.19181@odin.corp.sgi.com> rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: >Hello anybody, > >Has anyone done any further checking on Bob Lazars' background? I was curious if >anyone has any information on him,good,bad or whatever.Any info would be appreciated. Also,has anyone seen the video that he put together on the advanced technology that he alledgedly worked on? > I did find this posted somewhere: Robert Lazar Court Case Results _______________________________ Las Vegas Physicist Robert Lazar has sucessfully obtained his W-2 form from Naval Intelligence which verifies his formal employment with them but this isn't helping his court case much.... Originally scheduled for August 6, his sentencing was postponed to August 13th and once more delayed until August 17th. Lazar, with no known criminal record, could have been sentenced to up to 6 years in the Nevada State Prison. Lazar first gained attention by publicly disclosing claims of his one-time involvement in UFO/ET projects in the reputed S-4 section of "Dreamland" [aka, The Skunk Works, Area 51] in the Nevada desert, a highly protected test site of the U.S.' advanced military craft. Lazar says he was hired by the military to replace a member of the crew which was working on a extraterrestrial spacecraft. The Physicist whom Lazar was replacing was allegedly killed in a nuclear mishap resulting from a bomb test utilizing the fuel "115" used by one of the extraterrestrial ships. Lazar left the program out of disgust over the plodding pace of the program. Then trouble with the law began. As a result of a plea bargain with the Clark County District Attorney, Lazar pleaded guilty to one charge of pandering, for admitting that he set up a computer, programmed the software, and helped install a security system for an operating brothel in Clark County. While prostitution is legal in some areas of Nevada, it is illegal in Clark County. Lazar was given 6 months probation for the charge of pandering but for some reason, his passpost was taken away from him and never returned. Early on, Lazar was being charged with having manufactured methamphetimines but this charge was thrown out of court during the preliminary hearings. -> Virtual Reality Info. BBS <---- offline 8/91 206.323.7578 - 14,400 BPS -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the table like a card cheat." - Martin Gardner (writing in "Free Inquiry", Spring, 1992) Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6690 sci.skeptic:26502 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Subject: NASA UFO Debate w/ Oberg, Eckert on "Larry King Live" Message-ID: Date: Sat, 27 Jun 92 17:25:47 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <-dvl6tl.sheaffer@netcom.com> Lines: 42 In article <-dvl6tl.sheaffer@netcom.com> sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes: > >Better late than never. Not quite two hours ago, James Oberg (skeptic) >and [Don] Ecker of "UFO Magazine" were the guests on "Larry King Live" >(approx 6:30 PM PDT, 9:30 EDT Friday 6-26). The subject was the alleged >"NASA Space Shuttle UFOs" that had earlier been seen on Hard Copy. If OK, now I have seen the show, and the "famous" NASA UFO video. Gee, I was absolutely UNDERWHELMED by the "UFO"! It is so obviously a tiny piece of debris floating alongside the orbiter. Then there is a flash, representing either a water dump or the brief firing of an attitude- control thruster (both frequent). The piece of debris is pushed outward from the craft by the force of this. A few seconds later, a second piece is also pushed outward. (That's the "secret weapon sent up to intercept it!".) Anyone who thinks that these little pieces of debris are "alien spacecraft" is ready to enlist in the funny farm. Ecker came on strong against Oberg in prosecutorial form, asking him questions that imply his role in a "government cover-up." Larry King had to restrain Ecker several times. Please, UFOlogists, help out the "debunkers". Jump on the bandwagon of this "NASA UFO Video," and proclaim it's "genuine evidence" of aliens! Then everyone will be able to see how credulous you really are! :) -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the table like a card cheat." - Martin Gardner (writing in "Free Inquiry", Spring, 1992) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!shoup From: shoup@netcom.com (Richard Shoup) Subject: Seeking victims of alien abduction Message-ID: <88vl#q=.shoup@netcom.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 92 20:17:08 GMT Organization: netcom Keywords: alien abduction Lines: 20 [I am posting this for a friend. Please do not reply to me, but to her at the phone number given below. Thanks.] ---------------------- ABDUCTED? Did you have a frightening experience? Does not being believed make it worse? I want to help. I am researching the social and psychological aftermath of UFO abduction. I will hear your story with respect and kindness and a sympathetic ear. You will have absolute confidentiality. Help me to translate your experience into words that help both you and others to better understand what you are going through. Please call me now. Lisa Gladstone, 408-288-7554. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!oyster.cps.msu.edu!wilbur From: wilbur@oyster.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: re Caution for UFO investig Message-ID: <1992Jun27.220117.24715@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Date: 27 Jun 92 22:01:17 GMT References: <9206241322.AA20401@xuucp.ch.apollo.hp.com> <1992Jun24.235732.15757@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <1992Jun25.220839.3611@ryn.mro4.dec.com> <1992Jun26.211800.16497@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <16812FF67.LINSCOT@ricevm1.rice.edu> Sender: news@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University Lines: 25 In article <16812FF67.LINSCOT@ricevm1.rice.edu>, LINSCOT@ricevm1.rice.edu (Stephen M. Linscott) writes: |> In article <1992Jun26.211800.16497@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> |> wilbur@oyster.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) writes: |> |> > |> >In article <1992Jun25.220839.3611@ryn.mro4.dec.com>, trandolph@milkwy.enet.dec.om (Tom Randolph) writes: |> >|> |> >|> In article <1992Jun24.235732.15757@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, wilbur@snapper.cps.mu.edu (Richard Wilbur) writes... |> >|> |> [stuff deleted] |> > |> > |> >We still haven't proved that we have been to the moon. |> > |> >Brick |> > |> |> Brick - Can you prove (ON THE NETWORK) that you exist? |> |> - Steve - Good one, Steve... Quick, Inventive. I give it a...(7.5). Brick Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:6693 sci.skeptic:26509 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!news.claremont.edu!nntp-server.caltech.edu!SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU!CARL From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) Subject: Re: VCR Alert: NASA UFO Debate w/ Oberg, Eckert on "Larry King Live" Message-ID: <1992Jun27.223819.22752@cco.caltech.edu> Sender: news@cco.caltech.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera References: <-dvl6tl.sheaffer@netcom.com>, Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1992 22:38:19 GMT Lines: 19 In article , leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) writes: >Hmm, >why are these announcement not posted earlier, so everybody interested >in UFOs ahs a chance to watch it ! >Over here we do get CNN on our Cable system in Berlin, Germany, >so please could somebody post such announcement earlier, when there is >something about UFOs on CNN ? >I missed it ! Well, the television listings frequently don't give enough detail for someone to know what topic is going to be discussed until he watches the show. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL Disclaimer: Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS. That's what I get paid for. My understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below). So unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my organization responsible for it. If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61227@cup.portal.com> Date: 28 Jun 92 05:05:21 GMT References: <61006@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 7 Good news spacefans. Many years ago we thought that when more than 50% of the people believed in UFOs then the government would tell what they knew about UFOs. A few years back we reached 51% but no word from the government. Now 79% of the people in American believe in UFOs but no word yet although they are leaking a little bit of the truth (The Intruders). John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!mips!mips!decwrl!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61234@cup.portal.com> Date: 28 Jun 92 14:54:46 GMT References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61047@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 11 Sorry about those postings with nothing on them. I have a lot of this information on floppy disk and am having difficulty posting it. I'll have someone help me to get it on but in the present I'll just type it out. The following is from Sharri. MYSTERIOUS MARKINGS ON EARTH'S SURFACE. Well, it's quite a delight being with everyone again, and tonight's topic is the Mysterious Markings on the Earth's Surface. I would like to welcome you all to this recording and without further ado let's just go straight into our lecture. Thank you. And so these markings are not necessarily circular markings in the {corn} fields that many of you ahve seen on Unsolved Mysteries and Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!ucbvax!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: Date: 28 Jun 92 18:07:57 GMT References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61227@cup.portal.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 30 In article <61227@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Good news spacefans. Many years ago we thought that when more than >50% of the people believed in UFOs then the government would tell >what they knew about UFOs. A few years back we reached 51% but no >word from the government. Now 79% of the people in American believe >in UFOs but no word yet although they are leaking a little bit of the >truth (The Intruders). >John Winston. Saying that one "believes" in UFO's is about as usefull as saying that one believes in peanut butter. Penut butter exists, any belief I may have in the matter is irrelevant. And similiarly, people see things in the sky that they cannot identify. This is a fact, any belief that they do or do not is irrelevant (gee, I sould like a Borg :^), resistance is futile). This does show that when the acronym UFO is used, that what is meant is not Unidentifed Flying Object, but rather Exteraterristrial Spaceship, or something similiar. This causes a great deal of confusion. When people mean differently while using the same word or acronym communication is not the most likely result. Rich payner@netcom.com Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61258@cup.portal.com> Date: 28 Jun 92 23:33:28 GMT References: <61006@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 1 C Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61259@cup.portal.com> Date: 28 Jun 92 23:38:57 GMT References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61227@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 4 Yes Rick. I will agree that UFO does mean different things to different people. I think most people take it to mean something not of our known whole that is coming into our reality. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61279@cup.portal.com> Date: 29 Jun 92 13:25:36 GMT References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61227@cup.portal.com> <61259@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 3 I made a mistake. In place of whole I should have used the word world. Sorry about that. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61280@cup.portal.com> Date: 29 Jun 92 13:35:28 GMT References: <61006@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 7 A person by the name of Al C. loaned me copies of the magazine UfO Journal of Facts (spring and autumn 1991) and it mentioned the fact a lady from Venus called Omnec Onec lectured in Tucson, Arizona. She was at the First World UFO Congress on May 7, 1991. Source of information: The UFO Library, 11684,Ventura Blvd. Suite 708, Studio City Cal 91604. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61281@cup.portal.com> Date: 29 Jun 92 13:51:41 GMT References: <61006@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 11 another person that spoke at the First World UFO Congress is a lady that I know personally by the name of Tarna Halsey. She lived on Venus in a previous life. She used to call into the Herb Jepko radion talk show and was married to a former wrestler called The Crusher who died a few years back. Tarna before that time was married to Dr. Wallace Halsey the nephew to the famous Navy Admiral Bull Halsey of World War 2 fame. Wallace Halsey was an investigator of UFOs and was seen by Tarna at The Giant Rock Airport in the presence of a person from space. Tarna wanted to get a picture of the two of them together and the person from spaace informed her that she wouldn't be able to get a picture of him (the spaace man) because he and Wallace had been talking about Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines] Message-ID: <61282@cup.portal.com> Date: 29 Jun 92 14:01:22 GMT References: <61006@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 11 I can't seem to get this computer to go to the next page so please be patient with me. As I was saying the space person told her that she wouldn't be able to get a picture of him because he had been talking to Wallace about very high thoughts and his frequency was such that he wouldn't come out on film. She didn't believe him and sure enough he only came out as a bright light on film. Later the space man told her that she could take a picture of him and it would come out because he and Wallace had been talking about some normal things. She took the picture and it did turn out normal. The space people gave Tarna a lot of training and later she herself was able to do the same thing. That's all folks. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party Message-ID: <61283@cup.portal.com> Date: 29 Jun 92 14:35:02 GMT References: <74137@ut-emx.uucp> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 11 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6681 sci.skeptic:26489 This seems like a good discussion. May I please put me two cents worth in this conversation. Before I was 22 years old ( and I'm 60 now) I didn't give UFO's a serious thought, then on the sides of an Atlas missile at Vandenbery AFB in Caif. I got the idea that there was something I had to find or do. I went to Alaska and didn't find it and then came back to the San Francisco Bay Area and met a person that became my teacher. He taught we many things about UFOs, ESP and other things. To answer one of your questions as to why UFOs are important to us I believe you'll find as thousand of people are now finding out that all of us existed before on other planets and dimensions and it is wake up time. That's all folks. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Opinion Poll - Intruders Message-ID: <61284@cup.portal.com> Date: 29 Jun 92 14:47:46 GMT References: <138783.2A479C14@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 11 You asked what people think about the movie Intruders. Please let me tell you what I think about another movie first. It seems that our government a few years back wanted to get us ready to meet the space people by giving us nice movies like Incounters of the Third Kind and ET. This was all well and good because at that time our government was getting along pretty good with the Greys. Now things have changed. Just lately we have lost some of our best service men in a fight with the Grays to try to recapture a certain level in an underground test center underneath Dulce, New Mexico. Our Government now wants to tell the truth about the abductions of the Greys and it is coming out in the movie Intruders. That's all folks. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Seeking victims of alien abduction Message-ID: <61285@cup.portal.com> Date: 29 Jun 92 15:05:09 GMT References: <88vl#q=.shoup@netcom.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 9 That sounds very interesting. I recently had an interview with a UfO study group of people and some of the people had been abducted. They also have a therapist that they go to relive these experiences. After you get through the first few abductions it seem that some of these people have very good encounters. Sometimes they find that the people doing the abducting are actually friends of the abductees and are trying to get them to wake up to their true identity. I'll pass Lisa's phone number on to them and the UFO Study Group's number is 408-297-4557. That's all folks. John Winston. Encounters with Greys are not so good. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!csc.ti.com!tilde.csc.ti.com!fstop.csc.ti.com!tidss1!alanj From: alanj@dadd.ti.com (Alan Jones,AMJ1,) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: NASA UFO clip on Larry King Live Message-ID: <1992Jun29.162615.10341@csc.ti.com> Date: 29 Jun 92 16:26:15 GMT Sender: usenet@csc.ti.com Reply-To: alanj@dadd.ti.com Organization: Texas Instruments, Inc. Lines: 40 Nntp-Posting-Host: tidss1.dadd.ti.com I finally saw the much discussed NASA UFO clip on Larry King Live last week. For those of you who *still* have not seen it, I thought I'd add some more details to the story. I am really surprised that some of this had not been brought up before. 1. The footage takes place when the shuttle is on the dark side of the Earth. Thus you can't see any details of Earth, except the brightly lit outline of the horizon. Because of the darkness, the film is quite dark and grainy. 2. During the 10-15 second clip, you see bright spots above the horizon (some of which are surely stars), and about 10 bright spots below the horizon (certainly not stars). These bright spots are of various sizes, but all quite small and indistinct, and most of them move throughout the clip. The size of the objects is comparable to the size of the stars above the horizon. The movement of the objects varies in speed and direction. The object suspected of being a vehicle is moving the fastest. 3. About halfway thru the clip there is a distinct flash to the left. Immediately afterwards, almost all of the objects change their direction and speed. The change is most dramatic for the object suspected of being a vehicle. 4. Included in the object movement is the appearance of another object which seems to "streak" from the lower part of the screen to the top. The streak to me seemed to be a result of the streaking object's movement, and did not look anything at all to me like a propulsion streak. 5. Another thing left out of the discussion here before was that another object streaked parallel to the other streaking object, although this one was fainter and towards the lower right of the screen. My first impression of the clip was debris. After playing it over and over again on my VCR I still think it's debris. I saw no evidence of camera movement. I don't see how enhancing the picture helps because the light is so low and the picture is so grainy. What happens when you enhance a fuzzy picture of a faraway star? Finally, I find it hard to believe that anyone would think this is ETI, or *any* kind of vehicle. --- sincerely, Alan Jones / Texas Instruments, Dallas, TX / email=alanj@dadd.ti.com Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!ucbvax!STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM!lpb From: lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Send a Message To GOD Message-ID: <9206291744.AA12717@echidna.swdc.stratus.com> Date: 29 Jun 92 17:44:00 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Lines: 64 STAND UP AND BE COUNTED Declare Spiritual Independence July 4, 1992 GLOBAL INDEPENDENCE '92 Urgent Global Activation Day This is a day of celebration of our independence from all of the constraints that bind us in any way and do not allow us to be the glorious beings we are meant to be. We are recommending old-fashion picnics in the park, family reunions and general community gatherings. This is a day of fun and joyful events for all. Inquiries are invited and packets are available to help you plan your day. A wave of light from torches (flashlights) and other forms of light shining skyward will proclaim our unity and oneness before and with each other, our elder family who has gone before us, and our Creator. The lights will be lit at 9 p.m. your local time sequentially around the globe. Spirit has initiated this activity as a way of activating light workers on the planet into a plan- ned activity that can be networked around the globe in a short period of time. This global celebration is for everyone of any belief system who believes in life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for all planetary citizens. It does not matter which of the great spiritual teachers a person or group follows. We are all planetary citizens. This is an activity to help us reach out, reach up, come out of the closet and remember our heritage and accept our destiny a global and universal citizens under God, by whatever name the Creator is known. We acknowledge that we belong to a greater life stream than is visible to our normal vision. We are part of the family of man and the family of God. The time is past when any of earth's citizenry can act alone without serious consequences being shared by the totality of the Creation. We acknowledge that these is a guiding force behind the events that are manifesting on the planet, and they are a part of what the prophets of old called, "the end times." We believe at the end of "the end" times there can be peace on earth as man resumes his rightfule place in the cosmic scheme and that can happen now. We acknowledge that there is assistance available to us from these higher beings. They will avail themselves to us to assist us in healing our planet. They are not our rescuers or saviors, but merely or elder brothers and sisters. We invite all of the family of man to accept the magnificent gift that was originally given to the United States of America, the Declaration of Independ- ence, for safekeeping until the time was right. THE TIME IS NOW! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you wish further information, please contact: Arasia, Ambassador-at-Large Antahkarana, The Star People Connection 501 No. 36th #140, Seattle, WA 98103 Telephone 206/634-2017 ----- End Included Message ----- Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!rpi!sarah!newserve!bingsuns!vu0208 From: vu0208@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (!) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party Message-ID: <1992Jun29.172426.22961@newserve.cc.binghamton.edu> Date: 29 Jun 92 17:24:26 GMT References: <74137@ut-emx.uucp> <61283@cup.portal.com> Sender: usenet@newserve.cc.binghamton.edu (Mr News) Organization: State University of New York at Binghamton Lines: 17 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6686 sci.skeptic:26501 Nntp-Posting-Host: bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu In article <61283@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >This seems like a good discussion. May I please put me two cents worth >in this conversation. Before I was 22 years old ( and I'm 60 now) I didn't >give UFO's a serious thought, then on the sides of an Atlas missile at >Vandenbery AFB in Caif. I got the idea that there was something I had to >find or do. I went to Alaska and didn't find it and then came back to >the San Francisco Bay Area and met a person that became my teacher. He >taught we many things about UFOs, ESP and other things. To answer one >of your questions as to why UFOs are important to us I believe you'll >find as thousand of people are now finding out that all of us existed >before on other planets and dimensions and it is wake up time. >That's all folks. John Winston. Wake up time! were we sleeping before...! And do what after we are awakened?? Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!news.nd.edu!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu!wb9omc From: wb9omc@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Blackbird SR-71 (pilot) Message-ID: Date: 29 Jun 92 17:47:31 GMT References: <1992Jun26.161628.776@msus1.msus.edu> Sender: news@noose.ecn.purdue.edu (USENET news) Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network Lines: 48 Stafford@Vax2.Winona.MSUS.EDU (John) writes: >One of the Blackbird pilots is from here, a brother >of one of our staff members. From what I've heard, >there was little thrill in flying one of them but >a great thrill to say you _have_ flown one. It >appears that all attention is to the instruments >(why'd they even put a window on this thing?) and >that at speed the plane's altitute could vacillate >as much as 3,000 feet. (His name is Sam Gudmonson.) >more trivia, humm. This is backed up by most every serious reference work on the aircraft. A number of interesting effects have been reported that are related to this phenomenon. One that hasn't gotten a great deal of publicity - it appears that at the rated Mach 3.2, the fuselage forebody would "flex" as the altitude would change. The shock waves coming back off the front of the plane would then vary across the inlet of the engine nacelle - and that variation would cause engine disturbances, sometimes including the hated "unstart". An unstart was, in a nutshell, an occurrence that unbalanced the engine thrust and caused the plane to yaw to one side or the other and back and forth and back and forth.....rather violently. It has been reported that helmets got *cracked* by being smacked against the inside of the cockpit. Most of those unstarts became a thing of the past as the flight control system was improved. For a more precise explanation of an unstart, read one of the books. Crickmore's book is a good place to start. Altitude variations were fairly routine, but interesting nonetheless. The pilot workload in the SR71 was pretty high, but I am told better than the original A12 Blackbird, which had a less capable Flight Control System by most accounts. Keep in mind that the A12 was also a *single-seat* aircraft! The SR71 carried both pilot and RSO, meaning that the pilot could FLY the plane and let the RSO worry about the spook stuff..... To a certain extent, it would appear that one of the only MORE prestigous flying assignments within USAF than doing a tour with the Thunderbirds was to fly the Blackbird. (noting assignments like Air Force One or something like that....) I wonder how many ex-Thunderbirds might have moved up to flying the Blackbird.... :-) Duane Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!apsicc.aps.edu!jim From: jim@apsicc.aps.edu (frost...) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Blackbird SR-71 (pilot) Message-ID: <29JUN199213150490@apsicc.aps.edu> Date: 29 Jun 92 20:15:00 GMT References: <1992Jun26.161628.776@msus1.msus.edu> Organization: Albuquerque Public Schools - Career Enrichment Center Lines: 28 News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 In article <1992Jun26.161628.776@msus1.msus.edu>, Stafford@Vax2.Winona.MSUS.EDU (John) writes... >One of the Blackbird pilots is from here, a brother >of one of our staff members. From what I've heard, >there was little thrill in flying one of them but >a great thrill to say you _have_ flown one. It >appears that all attention is to the instruments >(why'd they even put a window on this thing?) and >that at speed the plane's altitute could vacillate >as much as 3,000 feet. (His name is Sam Gudmonson.) > >more trivia, humm. > There was an article a few years back in Popular Science or some such magazine in which the writer, who was invited along as an observer on a western states test flight, states that the pilot told him that one problem which could cause quite a *thrill* was when one of the planes two engines would alter or lose thrust when an air-intake adjustment cone would be out of proper alignment. The cones in the engines can actually move in and out several feet to affect the speed of the air entering the engines. This would cause the plane to immediately go into a sideways 'slide' through the air and cause much sweating by the crew as they brought it back under control again. ====================================================================== We are rapidly ascending through prosperity to poverty... Twain Internet: jim@apsicc.aps.edu Albuquerque Public Schools - Instructional System Manager ====================================================================== Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61300@cup.portal.com> Date: 29 Jun 92 20:41:46 GMT References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61047@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 9 Through my E-mail I got a request for a copy of a video I made of an interview I had with Harley Bryd the grand nephew of Admiral Byrd the explorer. Harley Byrd had been on the government team that investigated the Roswell UFO crash. I sent the information to Mark Rodeghier, scientific director of the Center for UFO Studies and coordinator of research in the Roswell Event. After listening to the interview with Harley Byrd I noticed again the he mentioned that he was to have a meeting the vice president of the United States last year. I wonder how that came out? That's all folks. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!data.nas.nasa.gov!taligent!apple!selway.umt.edu!cs000rdw From: cs000rdw@selway.umt.edu (Richard D Warner) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: 10 Gigawatt laser Message-ID: <1992Jun29.203542.5651@selway.umt.edu> Date: 29 Jun 92 20:35:42 GMT Organization: University of Montana Lines: 9 Keep my comment about "no known Gigawatt lasers" in perspective - we were talking about military weapons to explain the blip on the shuttle film, not fusion research. As I mentioned, these don't seem so viable for shooting through our dense atmosphere. In space, a chemically pumped high power laser would be fine, but even so probably wouldn't be in the visible spectrum (but certainly feelable:->). Rich Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61302@cup.portal.com> Date: 29 Jun 92 21:57:02 GMT References: <61006@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 8 I've been getting E-mail and it's running very positive. People are asking questions and some of them don't want their names mentioned so that will be my rules in answering them. J. asks where do I live. I live in Milpitas, Calif. J. also asked what I thought of the people I interviewed who claimed they were abducted by the space people? As far as I'm concerned I think they were telling the truth and thousands more are having the same experience. That's all folk. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!pellns.alleg.edu!news From: frisinv@pell50.alleg.edu Newsgroups: talk.bizarre,alt.bizarre,alt.sex.bondage,alt.sex.beasiality,alt.alien.visitors,alt.personals,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.satanism,alt.religion.scientology,alt.beer Subject: alt.sex.bondage Message-ID: <1992Jun30.004303.21855@pellns.alleg.edu> Date: 30 Jun 92 00:43:03 GMT Sender: news@pellns.alleg.edu Organization: Allegheny College Lines: 12 Xref: ns-mx talk.bizarre:63033 alt.sex.bondage:28505 alt.alien.visitors:6692 alt.personals:32669 alt.rush-limbaugh:4007 alt.satanism:1345 alt.religion.scientology:2314 alt.beer:3480 I just had to tell you all that alt.sex.bondage really works. Before I hooked up to Internet, I had all these chains and ropes laying around the house (not to mention the whips, leather masks, felt-lined handcuffs).Then I started posting to the Net and some guy threatened to tie me to a post, duct tape my mouth shut, and sodomize me repeatedly. I thought it sounded like good time so we went out. If I wasn't bound and gagged I could have told Bob - I mean Master- that I really liked him. Our next date was complete with dinner, hog-tying, and floggings. I was in love, and after my bones knit, we're getting married. It'll be just me, Master, and his irish terrier. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!comp.vuw.ac.nz!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!kc From: Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: NASA UFO Debate w/ Oberg, Eckert on "Lar Message-ID: <37726.1819220045@kcbbs.gen.nz> Date: 30 Jun 92 10:28:46 GMT References: Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand Lines: 11 sheaffer@netcom.com(Robert Sheaffer) 27 June 92 17:25:47 GMT types- >>Better late than never.Not quite two hours ago James Oberg(skeptic) >>and [Don] Ecker of "UFO Magazine" were the guests of "Larry King Live" Who is Larry Eckert?. And Larry isn't always. As I was rudely reminded by the U2 album. This makes 3 name connectors. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!centerline!noc.near.net!mars.caps.maine.edu!maine.maine.edu!umasp From: UMASP@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <92181.225338UMASP@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Date: 30 Jun 92 02:53:38 GMT References: <8HiVmB1w164w@bluemoon.rn.com> Organization: University of Maine System Lines: 83 In article <8HiVmB1w164w@bluemoon.rn.com>, garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) says: > >I started in computers in 1977, when my mom showed me an advertisment in the >L.A. Times about a computer fair at USC...She knew about my interest in >computers from my spending all my spare time at computer stores (what few >there were at that time), and buying up everything I could lay my hands on >about the subject...I had searched for many years for something which would >utilize the fine mind I was gifted with... What ever happened to it...cause it ain't still there. > >Around this time, I discovered that there were several other computer sites at >USC which I could access...One was the Salvatori Computer Center, a few blocks >down the street from the Keck Center...This system was much more advanced than >the Keck's, being a Tops-10 system...If you think I am a kind of scoundrel for >what I did, think of this...The first day I walked into the Salvatori Center, >there were maybe 5 little kids sitting there playing games on their system, >using passwords stolen from students going there...One of them offered me a >password, and I was on my way... > I'm real sure they told you outright that they had stolen passwords. > >It wasn't long before I had discovered how to access the Pentagon's computers, >and figured out how to decifer the protected files that were on there...It was >SO damn easy, it was really unbelievable...It was at this time that I began to >have problems with one of the people at the site...The office which I had been >using had some top-secret data sitting on the shelves, which I used to go >through, but always returned it exactly as I found it...Somehow, the guy whose >office it was got wind that his stuff had been tampered with, and I was forced >to move to another office...Darn! > Tampering with Top Secret documents....hmm? So where's your new office.... Ft. Leavenworth, KS ? That's where most federal prisoners end up. > >I found the number on the wall next to the first Plato terminal I ever saw...I >had been told by one of the regular kids at the Salvatori Center that if I >wanted to see some REAL games, I should go over to a certain building near >USC, and get a signon on the Plato computer system...When I walked into the >room containing three Plato terminals hooked up to CERL (Computer Education >Research Lab) at the University of Illinois in Urbana, Illinois, there was a >large piece of paper on the wall which said USC-TIP and the number >underneath...I simply couldn't believe it...Top-Secret phones numbers sitting >around for all to see!!! I asked the head guy there and was given a signon to >CERL... > I'm sure they just handed you a signon with all those 'top-secret' phone numbers lying around. > >Then, something happened which scared the H**L out of me...Larry Fye was >showing off his skills to me one night at ISI, when he suddenly asked me if I >would like to see him knock one of the other sites off the face of the >earth...I told him I would have to see it to believe it, so he opened the >bottom drawer of the operators desk there, and took out a book which had some >interesting writing on it...It said that it was a Federal Offense to OPEN the >book, and the penalty was a 20-year prison term or $50,000, whichever came >first! He flipped the huge book open to some page, then copied down some >numbers that were on the page...Then he signed on to SRI (Stanford Research >Institute), did a couple of things, typed in the numbers, hit the return key, >and said, "THEY'RE GONE!!!"...I looked on in amazement as the message "SRI is >not ready..." came over the screen...This meant that SRI was GONE...It had >been knocked off the air...I didn't believe it was possible, so I tried >logging on through Telnet...Sure enough, the system had gone down...Larry told >me that this could be done to ANY computer if you knew the right codes...I >thought of what could happen to the real important computers on the Arpanet if >that got out somehow...I was truly scared... > And no one figured out who entered the commands, huh? Gary, Gary, Gary please make this believable. [rest of garbage deleted] Sorry folks, I just couldn't hack (pun intended) any more of this. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!centerline!noc.near.net!mars.caps.maine.edu!maine.maine.edu!umasp From: UMASP@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Send a Message To GOD Message-ID: <92181.231009UMASP@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Date: 30 Jun 92 03:10:09 GMT References: <9206291744.AA12717@echidna.swdc.stratus.com> Organization: University of Maine System Lines: 32 In article <9206291744.AA12717@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>, lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM says: > >This is a day of celebration of our independence from all of the constraints >that bind us in any way and do not allow us to be the glorious beings we are >meant to be. We are recommending old-fashion picnics in the park, family >reunions and general community gatherings. This is a day of fun and joyful >events for all. I'm operating a float in the local parade. Does that count as fun and joyful? > >Inquiries are invited and packets are available to help you plan your day. > >A wave of light from torches (flashlights) and other forms of light shining >skyward will proclaim our unity and oneness before and with each other, our >elder family who has gone before us, and our Creator. The lights will be lit >at 9 p.m. your local time sequentially around the globe.... >are all planetary citizens. I'm lighting off some home made fireworks. Will a Saturn V model rocket loaded with a 1/2 pound of ground magnesium make enough light for this? If not, I could add more. The rocket has quite a bit of lift. > >We invite all of the family of man to accept the magnificent gift that was >originally given to the United States of America, the Declaration of Independ- >ence, for safekeeping until the time was right. THE TIME IS NOW! Oops! I goofed. I've been using the Declaration of Independence all along. Why didn't someone tell me I was supposed to WAIT to use it! Good Grief! Now I've screwed up everything for everybody. Sorry folks! :-) Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!chsun!impch!ixgch!chris From: chris@ixgch.uucp (Christoph Eckert) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers! Message-ID: <4323@ixgch.uucp> Date: 29 Jun 92 20:11:56 GMT References: <-7rljwb.sheaffer@netcom.com> Reply-To: chris@ixgch.imp.com (Chris Eckert, XGP Switzerland) Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Organization: XGP Switzerland Lines: 16 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6696 sci.skeptic:26548 alt.paranormal:5345 From article <-7rljwb.sheaffer@netcom.com>, by sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer): > I wonder how many more years the "flying saucers" will continue to > avoid unambiguous detection? And I wonder how many more years the > UFOlogists will be able to convince themselves that there's really > something "out there" to be proven? so you are one of those who DENY the existence of extraterrestrial intelligence? --- Chris Eckert, XGP Switzerland Internet Mail: check@ixgch.imp.com, SRI-NIC: CE13 Phone: +41-61 8115635 (voice/MET), +41-61 8115492 (ixgch) @ Ixgate Switzerland (ixgch.imp.com) / XGP Switzerland Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!ub4b!info-sparc1.info.ucl.ac.be!NewsWatcher From: Meessen@slig.ucl.ac.be (Christophe Meessen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: NASA UFO Debate w/ Oberg, Eckert on "Larry King Live" Message-ID: Date: 30 Jun 92 09:11:45 GMT References: <-dvl6tl.sheaffer@netcom.com> Sender: news@info.ucl.ac.be (News Administrator) Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Organization: Universite Catholique de Louvain (Belgium) Lines: 72 Nntp-Posting-Host: 130.104.58.8 In article , sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) wrote: > > In article <-dvl6tl.sheaffer@netcom.com> sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes: > > > >Better late than never. Not quite two hours ago, James Oberg (skeptic) > >and [Don] Ecker of "UFO Magazine" were the guests on "Larry King Live" > >(approx 6:30 PM PDT, 9:30 EDT Friday 6-26). The subject was the alleged > >"NASA Space Shuttle UFOs" that had earlier been seen on Hard Copy. If > > > OK, now I have seen the show, and the "famous" NASA UFO video. Gee, > I was absolutely UNDERWHELMED by the "UFO"! It is so obviously a tiny > piece of debris floating alongside the orbiter. Then there is a flash, > representing either a water dump or the brief firing of an attitude- > control thruster (both frequent). The piece of debris is pushed outward > from the craft by the force of this. A few seconds later, a second piece > is also pushed outward. (That's the "secret weapon sent up to intercept > it!".) Anyone who thinks that these little pieces of debris are "alien > spacecraft" is ready to enlist in the funny farm. "Obviously" ? What is that for an argument ? How deep was your investigation ? On what informations do you base your assertions ? Can you prove these assertions ? Is "enlist in the funny farm" a scientific argument ? Can you prove that the object seen was a piece of debris ? Where did you get this idear that the flash was a water dump or the brief firing of an attitude- control thruster (both frequent) ? Is the frequence enough to prove that the flash is due to one of your assertions ? Irony has never be a scientifical and productive argument. Why can't we study the phenomenon with a more objectif point of view. Gather facts as much as possible. This video images are facts. Where there other informations that could be used to correlate the images ? It's size .... Every thing else is just noise, no solid and usfull information. > Ecker came on strong against Oberg in prosecutorial form, asking him > questions that imply his role in a "government cover-up." Larry King > had to restrain Ecker several times. This attitude will NEVER lead to a collaboration with the "government". You can be shure that the "government" will avoid people with unwise behaviour. Even if they wished to share informations and a scientifical study of the phenomenon, they can't thrust people with such behaviour. > Please, UFOlogists, help out the "debunkers". Jump on the > bandwagon of this "NASA UFO Video," and proclaim it's "genuine evidence" > of aliens! Then everyone will be able to see how credulous you > really are! :) > > > -- > > Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com > Please, everyone, help out to solve this scientifical problem. Please keep to solid evidence and solid deductions. Keep the wiseness to accept whatever conclusions comes out of these evidences. Please, everyone, avoid irony in one way or the other. This is just noise and shows that you don't have the maturity or the wiseness to enter upon this subject. Take some backward movement first. Bien cordialement, Christophe MEESSEN Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Closed Abductee Conference Message-ID: <138887.2A4FB90E@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 30 Jun 92 00:05:01 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - If I understand correctly, the reason for the closed and secretive > nature > of the conference at MIT was because of the generally hostile > environment > for people who claim abductions. That hostility includes, of course, > ridicule, announcements that it couldn't possibly have happened, et al. > Perhaps the way to insure that research doesn't become fragmented and > non-legitimate is to work on the present climate surrounding people > who go public about their experiences. > > I think we see the same syndrome on this net. I have spoken privately > with a number of people by e-mail who would not post their experiences > on the net because of the rude and intolerant debunkers and nay-sayers. > > The bottom line, IMHO,is that vigorous debunking actually destroys data. > IN the sense that it prevents those who have it from making it > available. Your points are well taken Louise, but I still insist that the research must be conducted in full view of the abduction research community and their peers. While I agree that confidentiality of the witnesses must be a priority, the direction and strategy for attacking the problem does not. As I have stated before, Hopkins has been conducting research into this problem for several years and nothing substantive has emerged. We keep getting the same story, and now it is being embellished with *their* own idea of what is going on. All the while, there is no proof that even the experience perceived by the percipient is the *real* thing and not a screen memory. Since there is no watchdog or peer review of what takes place behind the closed doors, anything can go. The final outcome could be a major embarrassment to the UFO research community, particularly if it is found that a "cult" has formed around the research. There are scientific guidelines and protocols which must be followed. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Seeking Victims Of Alien Abduction Message-ID: <138888.2A4FB911@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 30 Jun 92 00:09:01 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - [I am posting this for a friend. Please do not reply to me, but > to her at the phone number given below. Thanks.] > > ---------------------- > > ABDUCTED? > Did you have a frightening experience? > Does not being believed make it worse? > I want to help. > > I am researching the social and psychological aftermath of UFO > abduction. I will hear your story with respect and kindness and > a sympathetic ear. You will have absolute confidentiality. > Help me to translate your experience into words that help both you > and others to better understand what you are going through. > > Please call me now. > > Lisa Gladstone, 408-288-7554. Hmmm...What are Ms. Gladstone's qualifications for doing this? What will she ultimately do with the data when she gets it? Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!news.cs.indiana.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu!wb9omc From: wb9omc@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Blackbird SR-71 (pilot) Message-ID: Date: 30 Jun 92 14:14:29 GMT References: <1992Jun26.161628.776@msus1.msus.edu> <29JUN199213150490@apsicc.aps.edu> Sender: news@noose.ecn.purdue.edu (USENET news) Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network Lines: 18 jim@apsicc.aps.edu (frost...) writes: [stuff deleted with reference to the 'unstart'] > entering the engines. This would cause the plane to immediately go into > a sideways 'slide' through the air and cause much sweating by the crew > as they brought it back under control again. Yes, of that I have NO doubt. If you get too out of whack at Mach 3.2, the airplane can *disintegrate* from around you. Based on pilot reference, an ejection from 80,000+ feet is quite a dangerous and exciting experience...... Of course, that is what the S1010B pressure suits that Blackbird crews wore/wear is all about - surviving a Mach 3+ ejection and living to tell about it. And they worked..... Duane Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!news.nd.edu!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu!wb9omc From: wb9omc@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: alt.sex.bondage Message-ID: Date: 30 Jun 92 14:20:30 GMT References: <1992Jun30.004303.21855@pellns.alleg.edu> Sender: news@noose.ecn.purdue.edu (USENET news) Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network Lines: 13 [stupid idiotic post deleted] To paraphrase Andy Rooney, did ya' ever wonder why it is that when you try to do a finger on somebody who posts this kind of garbage, it rarely ever works? Hmmm....I always figured if aliens were smart enought to *get* here, they'd at least know which newsgroups to post to.... This guy must have been hatched on Mercury - fried brains.... Duane Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!wupost!uwm.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Blackbird SR-71 Message-ID: Date: 30 Jun 92 14:47:14 GMT References: <1776f630@nacjack.gen.nz> <1992Jun24.232314.10287@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 42 >wilbur@snapper.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) writes: |>Peter.Caffell@p0.f140.n772.z3.fido.nacjack.gen.nz (Peter Caffell) writes: |> |> If the SR-71 was so secret up until it was made public in 1990. |> |> How come there is film footage of it in films dateing back to |> 1981. |> |> The film "The Man Who Saw Tomorrow" contains footage of the |> SR-71 taking off. |> |> Peter. |> ___ |> X MegaMail 2.1b #0: >Ok, who knows when the blackbird was presented to the general public? >It must have been before 1990. Because I got a 1984( or 1986) World >Records book that states that the blackbird set a speed record back >then. >Brick The SR-71 (actually a YF-12) was shown to the public on September 30, 1964. The first 12 SR-71's were ordered on January 30, 1960. As others have mentioned, there were several "models": A-12 (first test test model) SR-71 (origin designation "RS-71", but LBJ messed up in announcing it, and the AF stuck with it - sounds better anyway.) YF-12 (fighter interceptor, with radars, extra ventral fins for stability, and air-to-air missles -- cannons are not very useful at Mach 3!) D-21 (drone version(!)) .... Kelly Johnson's (also designed P-38, F-104, U2) original idea was the fighter version. There was at least one trainer version with a second 'bubble' behind the regular cockpit -- I've seen film of Kelly himself getting to fly in an SR this way. Charles Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu!wb9omc From: wb9omc@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Blackbird SR-71 Message-ID: Date: 30 Jun 92 17:48:18 GMT References: <1776f630@nacjack.gen.nz> <1992Jun24.232314.10287@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Sender: news@noose.ecn.purdue.edu (USENET news) Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network Lines: 91 mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) writes: >The SR-71 (actually a YF-12) was shown to the public on September 30, >1964. The first 12 SR-71's were ordered on January 30, 1960. As To be most specifically correct, on Jan. 30, 1960, Lockheed was authorized to produce 12 A-12 Blackbirds for the CIA. The SR71 came along just a bit later. >others have mentioned, there were several "models": > A-12 (first test test model) Not only was the A12 the *first* Blackbird, but they DID serve as an operational aircraft for the CIA.... There was also a two-seat trainer A12 nicknamed the "Titanium Goose". There were also two M-12's - see the section on the D21 below. > SR-71 (origin designation "RS-71", but LBJ messed up in > announcing it, and the AF stuck with it - sounds > better anyway.) The usual designation is SR71A for the operational version with a pilot and RSO. There were two SR71B dual trainer versions built, one crashed and one survived. After the crash, a second trainer was desired, so a single SR71C was built, the back half from a crashed YF12 and the front half from an engineering test specimen. It flew rather oddly and was not well liked. Nicknamed "The Bastard" it was never used much. > YF-12 (fighter interceptor, with radars, extra ventral fins > for stability, and air-to-air missles -- cannons are > not very useful at Mach 3!) Essentially correct. Of further possible interest here was the fire control radar, the Hughes AN/ASG-18. With some variations, it essentially ended up in the F15 Eagle, such was the excellence of the system. The XAIM-47 Falcon missile is seen today in the very similar AIM-54 Phoenix, used with great relish and success on the F14 Tomcat. > D-21 (drone version(!)) The GTD21 was originally designed to launch from the back of two of the CIA's A12 aircraft. Two were modified to what is often referred to as the M12 configuration. In an M12, the recon. bay behind the pilot was reconfigured to house a second crew member as an LCO, or Launch Control Officer. The GTD21 itself rode on a pylon on the back of the M12. The engine of the GTD21 was a Marquardt RJ43MA11 (hope I got that right, I'm regurgitating from memory here) ramjet that needed to be accelerated to about Mach 2 before it could *start*. The GTD21B version was launched from a modifed B52 underwing pylon using a booster rocket to bring the drone up to ramjet speeds. It is thought that virtually ALL operational missions of the GTD21 were flown from this configuration, owing to an accident during an M12 separation test that not only caused the loss of an M12 but the life of the LCO. GTD21's are reputed to have been used over Afghanistan, and there are rumours of overflights of both the USSR and Communist China. What little is currently known of the GTD21 is that it was rated speeds of Mach 4+ at altitudes of at or exceeding 100,000 feet. It is still difficult to get information on this little unmanned Blackbird...... >... Kelly Johnson's (also designed P-38, F-104, U2) original idea was >the fighter version. There was at least one trainer version with a >second 'bubble' behind the regular cockpit -- I've seen film of Kelly >himself getting to fly in an SR this way. Kelly did in fact get to go up in his brilliant creation. This seems eminently fair. While some of this is rather out of the general overview of alt.aliens.visitors, if anyone ever wants to vote for a man as the greatest US aircraft designer since Wilbur and Orville Wright, Kelly Johnson is probably the best choice. To name a few of his creations, the F80 Shooting Star, our first truly operational jet fighter; the F104 Starfighter, the U2 and all the Blackbirds. His protege' at the Skunk Works, Ben Rich, (who it must be said is a brilliant guy in his own right) is responsible for the F117A Nighthawk. Kelly was the designer for lots of other Lockheed aircraft as well, most notable is probably the P38 Lightning. Note that the operating moniker for the new YF22 is or at least WAS, the Lightning II. Some idiot in the DOD wants to call it the "Superstar" - damn dumbest name I ever heard of...... 1/2 :-) Duane Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!think.com!ames!sun-barr!news2me.ebay.sun.com!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr From: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Bosonic Transport Message-ID: Date: 1 Jul 92 02:33:36 GMT Reply-To: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Lines: 185 Xref: ns-mx alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1841 sci.physics:23134 alt.alien.visitors:6704 NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com One of the more interesting lines of scientific speculation concerns the possibility of getting matter to interpenetrate. Not just at the quantum level, but using bulk matter. The applications for such a capability would be endless. We might be able to operate at high speeds through dense media without being concerned about things like friction or collision. No ordinary enclosure would be immune to penetration. We would build underground cities and pass between them and outer space without having to have access ports or connecting tubes. As it happens we have found one way to get matter to interpenetrate. It is called superconductivity. Elementary particles, the basic constituents of matter, have a property called spin, which is quantized, so that it can only take half-integral values -- 1/2, 1, 3/2, 2, 5/2 .... Particles having fractional spins are called fermions. They include electrons and protons, the most common constituents of ordinary matter. Particles with integral spins are called bosons. The photon, or particle of electromagnetic radiation, is a boson. Greatly simplifying the physics, we can say that fermions can only get so close to one another, even if they are electrically neutral or their charges are neutralized, as they are in a neutral atom. This is why the electrons of an atom do not collapse into the nucleus, why atoms keep their distance from one another, and why atoms and molecules don't easily pass through one another. Bosons can, however, be packed as closely as their electrical charges permit, if they have electrical charges. Photons can pass right through each other without affecting each other in any way. Fermions can also get close to bosons. It is fermions which give ordinary matter its complex structures, such as molecules and men, and which cause it to consist of mostly empty space instead of packing together. This property of fermions is the basis for our perception of material objects as "solid" and inpenetrable. The current favored theory of superconductivity posits that pairs of electrons become bound together, their spins aligned in the same direction, while keeping a certain distance between them, and travel together along parallel paths through the superconducting medium. These pairs, called Cooper pairs after the physicist who proposed the theory, together have a combined integral spin and function as a boson. As a boson, they do not interact with the atoms in the superconducting medium, other than to be confined within that medium, but pass right through the spaces between them without being deflected or slowed down. This can continue as long as the temperature of the medium remains below the critical value, above which the atoms have enough energy to break up the Cooper pairs. In theory, it is possible for arbitrarily large collections of fermions to act as a single boson if they are bound together in spin alignment and there are an even number of them. A golf ball, a space ship, even an entire planet could be a boson, interpenetrating ordinary matter at will. In practice, it is difficult to see how such a collection could be achieved or maintained. Getting pairs of electrons to do so at the temperature of liquid Nitrogen is one thing. One can imagine binding the particles of a large object together by surrounding them in an extremely strong electromagnetic field which would align all their spins, but such a field is likely not to be compatible with life processes or with the structural integrity of the object. If they could be bound, then a bosonic state could be maintained by simply adding one electron as required to make the total number of fermions even. The problem would be to prevent single fermions in the collection from leaving this bound state at random, at a rate that would make it impossible to detect and respond to the need to add a fermion, such as an electron, to keep the number even, or to prevent odd fermions entering the collection randomly from outside. Any field which contained the collection would itself have to have a distinct boundary in order to control a precise number of particles, and perhaps align any fermions that enter its range. If the field were electromagnetic, it would have to consist of an extremely complex sum of oscillating fields which reinforced in a confined volume of space and canceled out everywhere else. Elementary particles themselves can be described as such fields. However, it is not obvious how we could do that for a region of space with a more convenient size or shape. Even if the field could control the entry and exit of low-energy particles, there would still be the problem of perturbation by high-energy particles, such as cosmic rays and natural background radiation. One suspects that it might not be possible to maintain a bosonic state 100 percent of the time, but perhaps only 95 percent of the time, in which case there would remain a significant residue of interaction which might cause some damage to living tissue and to the integrity of structures. If so, it might not be a state in which travelers would want to remain for long periods of time. Bosonic travel would then be something akin to space travel, involving exposure to a low but cumulative level of damage which would cause health problems, increase equipment maintenance costs, and perhaps carry a risk of occasional catastrophic failure. Assuming that bosonic transport could be done, then, it seems likely by this analysis that it might not be a favored mode of transport for most people in the normal course of their lives, but might be confined to expendable robots and to experimental specimens who would not be subjected to it very often or for long periods of time. While in a bosonic state, a vehicle would be nearly invisible from the outside, except perhaps for effects of its passage on matter in the vicinity, which might take the form of a glowing aura or various kinds of disturbances. --- The physicist Enrico Fermi once looked up at the sky and asked "Where are They?" What he meant is that since starfaring seems possible, even though at less than the speed of light it might take many generations for a starship to get from one star to the next, and if there are other civilizations in the galaxy with the technical capability for space flight, then it should be possible for a single such race, pausing at each planetary system to develop and build more starships, to expand through the galaxy at an average rate of .1 lightspeed, which would enable them to visit every star in the galaxy within about 1 million years, a very short timespan in the life of a galaxy. Assuming we are not the first such civilization in this galaxy, then why hasn't Earth been visited before? Based on reasonable estimates of how many suitable planets there are likely to be in the galaxy, we should expect to be visited about every couple of years by members of a new species. The answer may be that starfaring beings live in starships, and that when they station such starships on a planet, they site them underground. If each such starship-city had a million such beings, then we could have a million such cities, each representing a different species, buried beneath our feet, housing trillions of aliens, and never know it. Some of them may have been here for longer than there has been life on earth. On theoretical grounds, it is not surprising that an advanced civilization might be living in subterranean cities, or even that such a civilization might have been doing so for longer than humans have been living on the surface. We think of living in scattered settlements on the surface as normal, but that arises out of our background as first, hunter-gatherers, and then as herder-farmers, depending on other life forms to gather energy in the form of sunshine for us to harvest. That kind of economy requires a dispersed habitation pattern. Unfortunately, once a species gets beyond the hunter-gatherer stage, it becomes destructive of the natural ecosystem. It then has only a limited amount of time to evolve to the next stage, in which it totally separates its life-support system from the natural ecosystem. This necessarily involves withdrawing into cities designed and operated like giant starships, which are sealed from their external environment and which recycle all materials, using only a little energy to maintain normal function. We can imagine starship-cities that could last for millions of years, using only available sources of energy, such as solar or geothermal. A plausible size for such a starship-city might be 1 or 2 kilometers in diameter. Such a city could house perhaps a million beings similar to human beings at a high level of comfort. It can be shown that there is no viable compromise between scattered and compact living. Anything less than sealed cities can last for, at best, a few thousand years before collapse. Even with nanotechnology, there would appear to be a minimum size for such habitats, the size of a city, and therefore only one basic way for members of a civilization to live if it is to last very long. Starship-cities could be built in space, inside asteroids, or on the surface of a planet, but there they would be subject to hazards like radiation, corrosion and weathering. They would last longer and be less expensive to maintain if built underground. A few thousand years after making the transition to living that way, the members of such a civilization might come to find life on the surface of planets disagreeable and abnormal, in much the same way that many people used to living in luxury hotels find camping disagreeable. Human civilization now has only a few decades to make the transition to living in such starship-cities. If it does not, it will collapse, and humanity will descend to the stone age, with only a few scattered bands of nomads living in a desolated wilderness. If at least a few humans do make this transition, then their descendants can have a bright future, and civilization could continue for millions or even billions of years. --- jdr@starflight.corp.sun.com, starflt@uunet.uu.net Jon Roland Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A, Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141 Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!snapper.cps.msu.edu!wilbur From: wilbur@snapper.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: same poll Message-ID: <1992Jul1.023540.11086@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Date: 1 Jul 92 02:35:40 GMT Sender: wilbur@snapper.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) Followup-To: Same poll Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University Lines: 53 Ok Alt.alien.visitors, If you could just send me a mail message that states in your subject line just the statement( for example): poll: 4 That way, I see your response from your subject line without having to actually read your mail. Know what I mean? example 2: U 2 jschaef@nas.nasa.gov Tue Jun 16 22:13 30/1147 Re: Two mysteries ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ just replace with===> Poll: 5 U 3 rhys@cs.uq.oz.au Tue Jun 16 23:39 28/1055 Re: bluemoon (was Re: VCR U 4 nelson_p@apollo.hp.com Wed Jun 17 09:41 35/1535 Silly Internet Adressing ===================================== = Choose ONE of the below options. = ===================================== 0) Believe even though uninformed. 1) Believe UFO's exist, and are vistiting and abducting. 2) Believe UFO's exist, and are visiting. 3) Believe Aliens exist but they aren't visiting. 4) Have slight opinion favoring belief in aliens visiting and abducting. 5) Have slight opinion favoring belief in aliens visiting, but not abducting. 6) Have slight opinion favoring belief in aliens, but not visiting. 7) Haven't heard/seen enough info to form an opinion. 8) Tend to not believe in UFO's, even though uninformed. 9) Don't believe in UFO's, and am informed. 10) I dont believe UFO's don't exist here or elsewhere. 11) I HAVE heard/seen enough to form an opinion, and it is that there is not enough indisputable proof that aliens are visiting Earth, yet according to cosmological theory, they SHOULD exist in the universe. 12) Non of the options fit me. I thank those who have already replied. Brick Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!ox-prg!oxuniv!jdporter From: jdporter@vax.oxford.ac.uk Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <1992Jun30.142119.7191@vax.oxford.ac.uk> Date: 30 Jun 92 13:21:19 GMT References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61227@cup.portal.com> <61259@cup.portal.com> Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster Lines: 27 In article <61259@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Yes Rick. I will agree that UFO does mean different things to > different people. No it doesn't, it means one thing, and one thing only - that is Unidentified Flying Object this doesn't necessarily imply anything at all about the nature of the flying object in question- it can quite easily refer to a bird which does not appear to be of any known type as to an alien space-ship. > I think most people take it to mean something > not of our known whole that is coming into our reality. This doesn't really mean anything, though I gather you're trying to imply that UFO's are not actually part of the physical universe (that is presumably what you mean by 'our reality'). As with so many such claims, this claim of yours is wholly without evidence and is purely your personal *belief*, so you should not put it forward as if it were some kind of accepted interpretation. Julian Porter > John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!ox-prg!oxuniv!jdporter From: jdporter@vax.oxford.ac.uk Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <1992Jun30.142324.7192@vax.oxford.ac.uk> Date: 30 Jun 92 13:23:24 GMT References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61280@cup.portal.com> Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster Lines: 13 In article <61280@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > A person by the name of Al C. loaned me copies of the magazine UfO > Journal of Facts (spring and autumn 1991) and it mentioned the fact > a lady from Venus called Omnec Onec lectured in Tucson, Arizona. > She was at the First World UFO Congress on May 7, 1991. > Source of information: The UFO Library, 11684,Ventura Blvd. Suite 708, > Studio City Cal 91604. > John Winston. That must have been interesting - how did anybody used to living in an atmosphere mostly consisting of sulphuric acid, and in temperatures far in excess of any known on this planet manage to survive here, let alone make a speech? Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!caen!destroyer!ubc-cs!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani From: spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Seeking Victims Of Alien Abduction Message-ID: <1992Jul1.024214.18020@mprgate.mpr.ca> Date: 1 Jul 92 02:42:14 GMT References: <138888.2A4FB911@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Sender: news@mprgate.mpr.ca Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada Lines: 43 In article <138888.2A4FB911@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>, Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) writes: |> |> > [I am posting this for a friend. Please do not reply to me, but |> > to her at the phone number given below. Thanks.] |> > |> > ---------------------- |> > |> > ABDUCTED? |> > Did you have a frightening experience? |> > Does not being believed make it worse? |> > I want to help. |> > |> > I am researching the social and psychological aftermath of UFO |> > abduction. I will hear your story with respect and kindness and |> > a sympathetic ear. You will have absolute confidentiality. |> > Help me to translate your experience into words that help both you |> > and others to better understand what you are going through. |> > |> > Please call me now. |> > |> > Lisa Gladstone, 408-288-7554. |> |> Hmmm...What are Ms. Gladstone's qualifications for doing this? What will she |> ultimately do with the data when she gets it? |> Perhaps I'm overly cynical, but my first guess would be that she wants the information in order to write an "Abduction True Stories" kind of a book and cash in on the "Intruders" generated interest. |> Mike [...] Leonard. -- *********************************************************************** | Leonard E. Spani | //!?\\ | (disclaimer-p) | | spani@mprgate.mpr.ca | \\?!// | t | *********************************************************************** Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!news From: srobiner@pollux.usc.edu (Steve Robiner) Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Bosonic Matter properties ( was: bosonic Transport) Message-ID: Date: 1 Jul 92 03:47:46 GMT References: Sender: srobiner@pollux.usc.edu (Steve Robiner) Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA Lines: 15 Xref: ns-mx alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1845 sci.physics:23136 alt.alien.visitors:6709 NNTP-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu In article jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM writes: > [ much hypothesizing about macro 'bosonic matter states' >While in a bosonic state, a vehicle would be nearly invisible from the >outside, except perhaps for effects of its passage on matter in the >vicinity, which might take the form of a glowing aura or various kinds > Would matter in a bosonic state be affected by gravity? If so, any material acheiving such a state would instatly be sucked into the center of the Earth. Also, if matter in this state cannot interact with other matter, how would one acheive any kind of propulsion? =steve= Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <61371@cup.portal.com> Date: 1 Jul 92 04:00:57 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 11 Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10548 alt.alien.visitors:6710 sci.skeptic:26608 Dear Arasia: Thanks very much for sending me the information about your group. It seems that you have many of the same mentors that have helped me over the years such as Sananda, Michael and Saint Germain. I remember one time I was on the sides of Mt. Shasta with a group of light workers that Sister Thedra had called together. It was raining where we were and snowing a few hundred feet further up the mountain. Everone was a little late getting in place for the session and Michael was talking through a lady. He was really chewing out everybody for being so late. That's all for now. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61373@cup.portal.com> Date: 1 Jul 92 04:16:17 GMT References: <61006@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 10 I was just looking at the latest issue of the pulp magazine called The National Examiner (July 4, l992) and it mentioned a person that I interviewed about 2 months ago by the name of Mr. Harder, who is a retired professor from Berkely University. Mr. Harder lectured at the Whole Lifer Expo in San Francisco this summer about UFOs. He has done a lot of hypnotic work with Betty of the Barney and Betty Hill UFO incident. It also mentioned Edith Fiore who believes as many as 4,000,000 people have had abduction experiences. That's all folks. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: Bosonic Matter properties ( was: bosonic Transport) Message-ID: Date: 1 Jul 92 04:26:18 GMT References: Organization: Between a rock and a type specimen sheet, Boston. Lines: 21 Xref: ns-mx alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1846 alt.alien.visitors:6712 alt.religion.kibology:2846 In article srobiner@pollux.usc.edu (Steve Robiner) writes: >In article jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM writes: >> >[ much hypothesizing about macro 'bosonic matter states' >>While in a bosonic state, a vehicle would be nearly invisible from the >>outside, except perhaps for effects of its passage on matter in the >>vicinity, which might take the form of a glowing aura or various kinds > >Would matter in a bosonic state be affected by gravity? If so, any >material acheiving such a state would instatly be sucked into the >center of the Earth. Also, if matter in this state cannot interact >with other matter, how would one acheive any kind of propulsion? More to the point, how would it taste? Could it pick up pictures from all newspaper comics or only from bosonic ones? Would it convert my ribosomes into ribosobosomes? If you add milk, what would the boson equivalents of "snap", "crackle", and "pop" be? The possibilities for sex toys that can go through "normal" matter are endless! -- K. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!hotcity!kirkm From: kirkm@hotcity.COM (Kirk Marcroft) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Request: Mars face repost! Message-ID: Date: 1 Jul 92 10:32:54 GMT Organization: BBS Lines: 8 Could some one please repost the gif of the Face on Mars?! Thanks Wookie Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!dxcern!dscomsa.desy.de!vxdesy.desy.de!silverstein From: silverstein@vxdesy.desy.de Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Bosonic Transport Message-ID: <1992Jul1.144948.1@vxdesy.desy.de> Date: 1 Jul 92 14:49:48 GMT References: Sender: news@dscomsf.desy.de (USENET News System) Organization: (DESY, Hamburg, Germany) Lines: 26 Xref: ns-mx alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1848 sci.physics:23158 alt.alien.visitors:6714 Nntp-Posting-Host: vxdsya.desy.de In article , jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) writes: ....... > > The applications for such a capability would be endless. We might be > able to operate at high speeds through dense media without being > concerned about things like friction or collision. No ordinary > enclosure would be immune to penetration. We would build underground > cities and pass between them and outer space without having to have > access ports or connecting tubes. > Sorry, but that's not quite correct. Helium in the superfluid state does indeed act like a boson, but even though its superfluidity allows it to flow through the tiniest of pores, it is still contained in its cryogenic vessel. At a small enough range, the effects of the individual fermions which comprise it become significant. So even if you did properly align the spins of all the molecules in a spaceship to make it a boson, it would not be able to penetrate through solid matter. Fun idea, though... Sam Silverstein Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: NASA UFO Debate w/ Oberg, Eckert on "Larry King Live" Message-ID: Date: 1 Jul 92 16:33:00 GMT References: <9206302143.AA21168@echidna.swdc.stratus.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 40 Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:26638 alt.alien.visitors:6715 In article <9206302143.AA21168@echidna.swdc.stratus.com> lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM writes: > >Give it a rest Robert. Because YOU pronounce judgement we are all supposed to >bend over backwards for insertion eh? I saw the tape. I watched a small object >of unknown origin and unknown composition floating gently across the earth's >orbital horizon. It is well-known that spacecraft in orbit are surrounded by small particles of debris (ice, insulation fragments, etc) that hover and drift around them. (Remember John Glenn's "fireflies"?) > As it passed across the shuttle's field of view, it very >suddenly did an approx. 180 degree turn, sped up rapidly and disappeared in the >opposite direction. Immediately after it did the 180 and took off, something >that looked like nothing I ever saw...perhaps a beam, perhaps a small missle, >something.....just shot through the space the object had been. It was very >obvious that this all took place quite a distance away from the shuttle. > Yes, two pieces of debris pushed in the same direction by the firing of an attitude-control thruster. Amazing!!!!!! And how can you *possibly* say that this took place "quite a distance" away? There is NO information in such a video telling us how far away they are. -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the table like a card cheat." - Martin Gardner (writing in "Free Inquiry", Spring, 1992) Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!caen!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!fnal.fnal.gov!raph From: raph@fnala.fnal.gov Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers! Message-ID: <1992Jul1.131100.1@fnala.fnal.gov> Date: 1 Jul 92 19:11:00 GMT References: <10704705@1992Jun18.003218.7153@bilver.uuc> <422800031@peg> <-7rljwb.sheaffer@netcom.com> Sender: news@ctr.columbia.edu (The Daily Lose) Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab Lines: 41 X-Posted-From: fnala.fnal.gov X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu In article <-7rljwb.sheaffer@netcom.com>, sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes: >[...] > Of course, after 45 years of chasing after "saucers", we have no more > solid evidence about this supposed phenomenon than we did in 1947. > I wonder how many more years the "flying saucers" will continue to > avoid unambiguous detection? And I wonder how many more years the > UFOlogists will be able to convince themselves that there's really > something "out there" to be proven? > Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com >[...] From what I can tell there have been thousands of reported cases of "unambiguous detection" and likely far more unreported cases. For instance, we had a neighbor we had known for over 15 years, quite normal, honest, and not given to concocting tall tales. One clear day she and her two sons spotted a UFO hovering several hundred feet away, over a corner of the property. As they watched, a smaller black disk dropped out of the bottom, and proceeded away on a horizontal course. The lareared to be disk-shaped, quite solid, and highly polished and mirror-like. After the smaller object (also disk-shaped, but only about 6 feet in diameter and black) left, the larger object tilted, passed overhead and then angled upwards into the sky where they quickly lost sight of it. As it passed overhead, they all experienced a sudden wave of vertigo. About two weeks later, also during the middle of the day, they were inside the house when they again all experienced a similar vertigo. The younger son exclaimed, "They're back again," and they all ran out, where they saw an identical object in the sky in the same position as before. In a few moments, it banked and flew off. It never returned to the area as far as they could determine after that. Both we and they could only conclude that a UFO was unambiguously detected. It wasn't a fabrication; it wasn't swamp gas or the planet Venus, or a weather balloon. (Just one example) Jim Hawtree ****************** "If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and walks like a duck, it may indeed become necessary to begin to seriously consider the possibility that we are confronting an example of the species _Anas platyrhynchos_." - Douglas Adams Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rphroy!caen!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!stepsun.uni-kl.de!sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de!efes.physik.uni-kl.de!kring From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers! Message-ID: <1992Jul1.203655.2126@rhrk.uni-kl.de> Date: 1 Jul 92 20:36:55 GMT References: <-7rljwb.sheaffer@netcom.com> <4323@ixgch.uucp> Sender: news@rhrk.uni-kl.de Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany Lines: 14 Christoph Eckert writes: >From article <-7rljwb.sheaffer@netcom.com>, >by sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer): > >[skeptical paragraph omitted] > >so you are one of those who DENY the existence of extraterrestrial >intelligence? Is the Pope Catholic? -- -Caddy--(thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany)----- Hey, I found a new witty saying for my .sig! Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!dog.ee.lbl.gov!network.ucsd.edu!network.ucsd.edu!news From: M Maxwell Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Speaking of invasions... Message-ID: <12t7s5INNmj7@network.ucsd.edu> Date: 1 Jul 92 21:25:25 GMT Organization: UC San Diego Lines: 14 NNTP-Posting-Host: irpsws80.ucsd.edu Talking about being close to the invasion, has anyone else out there seen the arcade game called "MAJESTIC TWELVE"? It starts like out Space Invaders, but then moves along to screens of you versus the horrible flying saucers which swoop down and snatch up helpless cattle. And yes, that phase is called "CATTLE MUTILATION"! Personally i think its a plant and plan to stay as far from the game as possible ;-) Matt Maxwell mmaxwell@ucsd.edu Hey you kids! Don't touch that; it's ART! Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!news From: STONE@Zeus.unomaha.edu (Travis R. Stone) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: NASA Video & Occam's Razor Message-ID: <1992Jul1.220354.22063@news.unomaha.edu> Date: 1 Jul 92 22:03:54 GMT Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha Lines: 37 X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11 A sizable amount of debate---not all of it being conducted with the air of cool-tempered dispassion one would like to observe on such an occasion---has been sparked by the NASA video and the explanatory hypotheses put forward by "skeptics" and (for lack of a better term) "not-so-skeptics" alike; the meatiest bone of contention seems to have sprung up over Robert Sheaffer's (sorry, Robert, if I spelt your last name incorrectly) statement/explanation that the video depicts nothing more than a chunk of ice obeying Newton's Laws of motion in response to a burst from an attitude-adjustment rocket on the Shuttle, and his defense thereof from the various counterarguments claiming that combinations of camera/Shuttle motions could not account for the movements seen in the tape. It seems eminently more reasonable to invoke Occam's Razor here and go with the simpler "ice particle" explanation than invoke embattled alien spaceships dodging surface-to-air weaponry as the cause for what is seen in the video, unless careful analysis of the images contained therein demonstrates some sort of motion that cannot possibly be reconciled with Robert's "ice particle/booster rocket" scenario, or some other data that positively mitigates against it---such as a concrete determination of the anomalous object's distance from the Shuttle as being on the order of kilometers, for instance---comes to the fore. Until such determinations can be made, I can see no point in proponents and opponents of the "ice theory" verbally clawing each other to shreds over the issue since a fairly convincing explanation has been posited, and no solid (or even semi-solid) refutation has come from the other "school of thought". T.R. Stone University of Nebraska-Omaha Home of the Toughest Organic Chemistry Instructors in the Galaxy (On video tape OR off!) Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!concert!uvaarpa!murdoch!fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU!jvb7u From: jvb7u@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Jon Brinkmann) Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Bosonic Transport Message-ID: <1992Jul2.032503.4412@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> Date: 2 Jul 92 03:25:03 GMT References: Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU Reply-To: jvb7u@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Jon Brinkmann) Organization: Department of Astronomy, University of Virginia Lines: 52 Xref: ns-mx alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1853 sci.physics:23211 alt.alien.visitors:6720 In article , jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) writes: ....stuff deleted... |> |> Greatly simplifying the physics, we can say that fermions can only get |> so close to one another, even if they are electrically neutral or their |> charges are neutralized, as they are in a neutral atom. This is why the |> electrons of an atom do not collapse into the nucleus, why atoms keep |> their distance from one another, and why atoms and molecules don't |> easily pass through one another. Bosons can, however, be packed as |> closely as their electrical charges permit, if they have electrical |> charges. Photons can pass right through each other without affecting |> each other in any way. Whoa... You're way off here, at the crux of your theory! 1) A neutral atom contains charged particles. There are equal numbers of positive and negative particles. An atom becomes charged when the numbers become unequal. 2) Fermions (usually electrons) "orbit" the nucleus because they have charge. Spin, and the fact that they are Fermions has nothing to do with it. In fact, there is a finite probability of finding a Fermion (electron) inside the nucleus. Look it up in your high school chemistry or modern physics text! 3) The bonds that hold the atoms in molecules in place are due to primarily to the electrostatic charges present, NOT THE SPIN. Yes, the spin does play a role, but not the primary one. 4) Atoms have a small but non-vanishing probability of passing through each other. The low probability is due to the repulsion of one atom's electron cloud due to the other atom's electron cloud. 5) A process known as "tunneling" occurs all the time. In fact, it is used in the tunnel diode, a solid state device in common use. In this case, charges pass through regions where classical electrostatics says it is impossible to do so, hence the "tunneling". However, if the situation is analyzed using Quantum Mechanics, the tunneling is predicted and explained. Jon --- Dr. Jon Brinkmann Astrophysics Department Internet: jvb7u@Virginia.EDU University of Virginia UUCP: ...!uunet!virginia!jvb7u P.O. Box 3818 SPAN/HEPnet: 6654::jvb7u Charlottesville, VA 22903-0818 Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!uchinews!ellis!thf2 From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Skeptics' Predictions (was: Sylvia Brown Fraud) Message-ID: <1992Jul2.023332.9563@midway.uchicago.edu> Date: 2 Jul 92 02:33:32 GMT References: <1992Jun17.162747.28455@uwm.edu> Sender: news@uchinews.uchicago.edu (News System) Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations Lines: 23 Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:26665 alt.paranormal:5347 alt.alien.visitors:6721 In article anson@netcom.com (Anson Kennedy) writes: >NONE of your predictions meet that criterion; they are all for events yet >to happen. It's great they've been publicly posted ahead of time, but >history has yet to prove them valid. The "Solomon Ruling" you predicted >for this coming October is the earliest, so we still have a few months to >wait before being able to check ANY of your predictions.. Actually, I can confirm that prediction as almost certainly false now. I can tell you now that it's not going to happen. There are no pending cases in the Supreme Court dealing with abortion with the name "Solomon." The Supreme Court is about to recess, and will not meet again until the first Monday in October. Even should they hear a "Solomon" case immediately then (and there are no cases currently pending at the appellate level with the name "Solomon," making it almost certain that they won't), it is close to certain that it would not be decided before June 1993, much less throw together such an important decision within weeks of hearing it. -- .................................... ted frank | thf2@midway.uchicago.edu the university of chicago law school suffering from bozeman's syndrome Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: REQUEST: Roswell information; and how to get more Message-ID: Date: 2 Jul 92 04:58:45 GMT References: <20JUN199221455246@zeus.tamu.edu> Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 17 To: jmd9888@zeus.tamu.edu The second part of this request is for anyone knowing how I can get a hold of any documents that Washington has put out on this...ie. the ones from the freedom of information act. .... CAUS put out a book that may be what you're looking for (or at least a start): AUTHOR: Fawcett, Lawrence, and Barry J. Greenwood. TITLE: Clear intent : the government coverup of the UFO experience / Lawren> PUBLISHER Englewood Cliffs, N.J. : Prentice-Hall, c1984. Fairly good (if occasionally strident) narrative. I recommend it. Contains a number of FOIA documents, plus descriptions of some of the difficulties encountered in obtaining them. Charles Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61429@cup.portal.com> Date: 2 Jul 92 13:32:25 GMT References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61227@cup.portal.com> <61259@cup.portal.com> <1992Jun30.142119.7191@vax.oxford.ac.uk> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 6 To Julian Porter. I believe that you will find that most people who believe in UFOs feel that if their are all those stars out there and if those stars have planets around them then maybe some of them are coming around our Earth and we are seeing them in their craft. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61430@cup.portal.com> Date: 2 Jul 92 13:41:28 GMT References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61373@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 9 To Julian Porter: You ask how Omnec Onec the lady from Venus was able to live on Earth if she was from Venus. Most of the people on Venus exist in the fourth dimension we are mostly in the third. She went through a process that lowered her vibrational frequency that allowed her to operate in our reality. It's sort of like the catapillar that looked up at the beautiful butterfly in the sky and said, "You'll never get me up in one of those things. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61433@cup.portal.com> Date: 2 Jul 92 13:55:02 GMT References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61227@cup.portal.com> <61259@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 11 If all goes well I hope to spend the next 4 days on some property I'm buying on the sides of Mt. Shasta. A few very bad predictions and information is coming from some of the space people. Hatonn is saying we may have 120 hours of darkness starting about July 25, l992 or sometime up to the end of July 1992. I hope this doesn't happen. He also says Aids is a disease made by man to control the overpopulation, that they first started in Africa. He believes the people who started it want everybody to have it so we will be forced to take a vacine (of which the people who started the disease have always had). When we are given this vacine it will contain a microchip that will allow us to be controlled. I hope this is not true. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: REQUEST: Roswell information; and how to get more Message-ID: <61434@cup.portal.com> Date: 2 Jul 92 14:03:27 GMT References: <20JUN199221455246@zeus.tamu.edu> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 4 Dear Charles: Would you be so kind as to put down the mailing address of CAUS. Thanks, John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party Message-ID: <61435@cup.portal.com> Date: 2 Jul 92 14:15:26 GMT References: <74137@ut-emx.uucp> <61283@cup.portal.com> <1992Jun29.172426.22961@newserve.cc.binghamton.edu> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 7 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6727 sci.skeptic:26679 To vu02: You asked me about wake up time. Some people call it enlightenment. You might look at it this way, some people are being abducted by good type space people and they are being told by the space people that they once lived on the same planet or dimension that the space people are coming from. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!kc From: Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Aurora Message-ID: <38051.1839212583@kcbbs.gen.nz> Date: 2 Jul 92 10:34:11 GMT References: Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand Lines: 16 wb9omc@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu(Duane P Mahntick) types >His protege at the Skunk works Ben Rich(who it must be said is a brilliant >guy in his own right) is responsible for the F117A Nighthawk. \\\\\\\\\\ Makes me wonder if he has had a hand in the much rumoured Aurora?. Any idea about the real truth about the Aurora(including it's spelling as Iv'e seen about 3 ways)? Interestingly as I type this their has been an item on the EFA troubles. ****************************************** ARE ETOI SPACESHIPS SHY? OR ARE THEY JUST WAITING TO SEAL THE ROYALTY DEAL ****************************************** Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!udel!gvls1!tredysvr!cellar!revpk From: revpk@cellar.org (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Oh, now come ON, gang. Message-ID: Date: 2 Jul 92 05:33:23 GMT Sender: bbs@cellar.org (The Cellar BBS) Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system Lines: 12 About two weeks ago, I asked if anyone could Email me any material on government coverups and UFOs, with perhaps some material on these 'Greys' some people have mentioned. And I ain't heard SQUAT yet. Now, doesn't anyone have any substantial material on this? Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano revpk@cellar.org New Sig File Under Construction-- Light and Compact for your Usenet Pleasure. "The recent problem with the satellite retrieval managed to prove one thing; DeVries graduates really _do_ work for NASA." Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <1992Jul2.163321.21212@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: 2 Jul 92 16:33:21 GMT References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61227@cup.portal.com> <61433@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Lines: 25 Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com >If all goes well I hope to spend the next 4 days on some property >I'm buying on the sides of Mt. Shasta. >A few very bad predictions and information is coming from >some of the space people. Hatonn is saying we may have 120 hours of >darkness starting about July 25, l992 or sometime up to the end of July >1992. I hope this doesn't happen. He also says Aids is a disease made >by man to control the overpopulation, that they first started in Africa. >He believes the people who started it want everybody to have it so >we will be forced to take a vacine (of which the people who started the >disease have always had). When we are given this vacine it will contain a >microchip that will allow us to be controlled. I hope this is not true. Gary Stollmans' cousin? Rod -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!csa3.lbl.gov!sichase From: sichase@csa3.lbl.gov (SCOTT I CHASE) Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Bosonic Transport Message-ID: <24328@dog.ee.lbl.gov> Date: 2 Jul 92 17:57:41 GMT References: <1992Jul2.032503.4412@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> Reply-To: sichase@csa3.lbl.gov Distribution: na Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA Lines: 47 Xref: ns-mx alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1865 sci.physics:23270 alt.alien.visitors:6731 NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198 News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4 >jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) writes: >....stuff deleted... >|> Greatly simplifying the physics, we can say that fermions can only get >|> so close to one another, even if they are electrically neutral or their >|> charges are neutralized, as they are in a neutral atom. This is why the >|> electrons of an atom do not collapse into the nucleus, why atoms keep >|> their distance from one another, and why atoms and molecules don't >|> easily pass through one another. Bosons can, however, be packed as >|> closely as their electrical charges permit, if they have electrical >|> charges. Photons can pass right through each other without affecting >|> each other in any way. In addition to the other criticisms already levied against this argument, I would like to add that (1) Degeneracy pressure plays no role is keeping a hydrogen atom from collapsing. The stability of the electron's orbit is not due to it's being a fermion. (At least in any direct sense). (2) Photons most certainly do interact with one another, as has been oft discussed in this newsgroup. Photon-photon collisions are mediated by higher-order QED processes. (3) There is no limit to how close two fermions can get. They must be separated in phase space, not just position space. But even neglecting this, the effect which you describe (variously called "Pauli pressure", "degeneracy pressure", "wave-function antisymmetrization","fermionic repulsion". and a host of other names) does not preclude fermions from being arbitrarily close in phase space for short times, although it decreases the probability. This is related to the "Bose-Einstein" or "Hanbury-Brown Twiss" effect, in which the probability of finding two bosons (typically pions or photons) from a single source close in phase space is increased, while for two identical fermions, the probability is decreased, relative to what you would expect in a classical process. For example, in nuclear collisions, like-sign pairs of pions are emitted with enhanced probability for small momentum difference, which protons are emitted with decreased probability for small momentum difference. This does not mean that arbitrarily small momentum differences are forbidden - rather they are suppreseed. -Scott -------------------- Scott I. Chase "The question seems to be of such a character SICHASE@CSA2.LBL.GOV that if I should come to life after my death and some mathematician were to tell me that it had been definitely settled, I think I would immediately drop dead again." - Vandiver Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rphroy!caen!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!datum.nyo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!milkwy.enet.dec.com!trandolph From: trandolph@milkwy.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <1992Jul2.171505.9400@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Date: 2 Jul 92 17:05:08 GMT References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61373@cup.portal.com> <61430@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@ryn.mro4.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 13 In article <61430@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes... >To Julian Porter: >You ask how Omnec Onec the lady from Venus was able to live on Earth >if she was from Venus. Most of the people on Venus exist in the fourth >dimension we are mostly in the third. She went through a process that >lowered her vibrational frequency that allowed her to operate in our >John Winston. Uh, sorry, "fourth dimension"? "vibrational frequency"? You lost me. Classic psuedo-science mumbo-jumbo, I'm afraid. -Tom R. milkwy.enet.dec.com!trandolph Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rphroy!caen!sdd.hp.com!usc!news.bbn.com!olivea!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: President Bush mentions ET Message-ID: <1992Jul2.210946.27902@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: 2 Jul 92 21:09:46 GMT Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Lines: 28 Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com Hello Anybody, Did anyone hear the excerpt from a press conference President Bush gave that aired on KGO 810 on the AM dial here in the Bay Area? I guess he(PB) held up this weeks copy of the tabloid "The News" that had Ross Perot on the cover with an alien, Stating something to the effect that that he(PB) was betrayed by the alien cause he(the alien) was trying to help Perot get elected in any way he could & would help him (RP) with the economy.I think Bush said something like "He(the alien) is not even wearing any clothes,how can he help with the economy."These are by no means direct quotes,so please no FLAMES. At any rate I was just curious if any other news stations carried this commment. Other than to try & make Ross Perot look foolish,I can't think of a reason he would even mention something like this ,can you? Will anyone admit to seeing the issue or its contents? Thanks, Rod -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!paperboy.osf.org!hsdndev!cfa203!job From: job@cfa.harvard.edu (Jeffrey Oliver Breen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Send a Message To GOD Message-ID: <1992Jul2.215045.2111@harlow.harvard.edu> Date: 2 Jul 92 21:50:45 GMT References: <9206291744.AA12717@echidna.swdc.stratus.com> Sender: job@cfa.harvard.edu (Jeffrey Oliver Breen) Organization: Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, Cambridge, MA, USA Lines: 28 In article <9206291744.AA12717@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>, lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM writes: > > STAND UP AND BE COUNTED > > Declare Spiritual Independence > > July 4, 1992 > > GLOBAL INDEPENDENCE '92 [...] > > A wave of light from torches (flashlights) and other forms of light shining > skyward will proclaim our unity and oneness before and with each other, our > elder family who has gone before us, and our Creator. The lights will be lit > at 9 p.m. your local time sequentially around the globe. Spirit has initiated > this activity as a way of activating light workers on the planet into a plan- > ned activity that can be networked around the globe in a short period of time. A wave of light from torches and other forms of light shining skyward is called LIGHT POLLUTION, the bane of astronomers across the world (galaxy?). Though, with all those fireworks, maybe no one will notice :) -- +----------- | Jeffrey Oliver Breen Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, | (617) 495-7252 60 Garden St., Room B-340, MS 6, Cambridge, MA 02138 | Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!odin.unomaha.edu!jcitro3 From: jcitro3@odin.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: re Caution for UFO investig Message-ID: <1992Jul2.222413.7439@news.unomaha.edu> Date: 2 Jul 92 22:24:13 GMT References: <1992Jun25.220839.3611@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha Lines: 28 maybe it all boils down to I think therefore I am. KKK EXIT q Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!trlluna!titan!titan!lampard From: lampard@titan.trl.OZ.AU (Greg Lampard) Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Bosonic Transport Message-ID: <1992Jul2.231011.8268@trl.oz.au> Date: 2 Jul 92 23:10:11 GMT References: <1992Jul2.032503.4412@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> Sender: root@trl.oz.au (System PRIVILEGED Account) Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia Lines: 36 Xref: ns-mx alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1867 sci.physics:23314 alt.alien.visitors:6736 jvb7u@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Jon Brinkmann) writes: >In article , >jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) writes: >...stuff deleted... >|> >|> Greatly simplifying the physics, we can say that fermions can only >get >|> so close to one another, even if they are electrically neutral or >their >|> charges are neutralized, as they are in a neutral atom. This is why >the >|> electrons of an atom do not collapse into the nucleus, why atoms >keep >|> their distance from one another, and why atoms and molecules don't >|> easily pass through one another. Bosons can, however, be packed as >|> closely as their electrical charges permit, if they have electrical >|> charges. Photons can pass right through each other without affecting >|> each other in any way. ....stuff deleted... >2) Fermions (usually electrons) "orbit" the nucleus because > they have charge. Spin, and the fact that they are Fermions has > nothing to do with it. I think this is one of the few points where the original poster was actually correct. Only fermions obey the Pauli exclusion principle, bosons don't, so if electrons were bosons they would all collapse into the lowest energy state, rather than filling shells in the way they do. Bosonic electrons would make chemistry very boring :-). --- Greg Lampard | Showing you how you can turn your old Telecom Research Laboratories | nuclear physicist into a brand new g.lampard@trl.oz.au | communications engineer. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!torn!watserv1!watdragon.waterloo.edu!jeeves.waterloo.edu!srnwhite From: srnwhite@jeeves.waterloo.edu (Shannon White) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: Date: 3 Jul 92 00:06:20 GMT References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61373@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@watdragon.waterloo.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Waterloo Lines: 17 In article <61373@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > I was just looking at the latest issue of the pulp magazine called The > National Examiner (July 4, l992) and it mentioned a person that I > interviewed about 2 months ago by the name of Mr. Harder, who is a > retired professor from Berkely University. Mr. Harder lectured at the > Whole Lifer Expo in San Francisco this summer about UFOs. He has done > a lot of hypnotic work with Betty of the Barney and Betty Hill UFO ^^^^ I hate to quibble over facts, but I believe it was Betty and Barney Rubble, not Hill. It's important to keep our facts right if people are to believe us. > incident. It also mentioned Edith Fiore who believes as many as > 4,000,000 people have had abduction experiences. > That's all folks. > John Winston. srnwhite@violet.waterloo.edu Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!uqcspe!cs.uq.oz.au!rhys From: rhys@cs.uq.oz.au (Rhys Weatherley) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Send a Message To GOD Message-ID: <9219@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> Date: 3 Jul 92 01:25:31 GMT References: <9206291744.AA12717@echidna.swdc.stratus.com> Sender: news@cs.uq.oz.au Reply-To: rhys@cs.uq.oz.au Lines: 24 In one article we have: In article <9206291744.AA12717@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>, lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM writes: > STAND UP AND BE COUNTED > Declare Spiritual Independence > July 4, 1992 > GLOBAL INDEPENDENCE '92 and in another: In article <61433@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >[...] Hatonn is saying we may have 120 hours of >darkness starting about July 25, l992 or sometime up to the end of July >1992. I hope this doesn't happen. [...] Personally, I think that the 120 hours of darkness is an alien payback for our being so presumptuous in shining torches and whatnot on July 4. :-) Rhys. -- Rhys Weatherley, University of Queensland, Australia. rhys@cs.uq.oz.au "I'm a FAQ nut - what's your problem?" Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rice!RICEVM1.RICE.EDU!LINSCOT From: LINSCOT@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU (Stephen M. Linscott) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: e: Ley Lines Message-ID: <168181186B.LINSCOT@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU> Date: 3 Jul 92 00:56:27 GMT Sender: news@rice.edu (News) Organization: Rice University Lines: 27 ======================================================================== From: LINSCOT@ricevm1.rice.edu (Stephen M. Linscott) To: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Subject: Re: Ley Lines Date: Thu, 02 Jul 92 15:14:41 CDT Organization: Rice University, Houston, TX Concerning John's statement: To Julian Porter: You ask how Omnec Onec the lady from Venus was able to live on Earth if she was from Venus. Most of the people on Venus exist in the fourth dimension we are mostly in the third...[rest deleted] John Winston. John - I believe you have your planets confused. The people of Venus are ONE DIMENSIONAL (i.e., points) as plainly shown on the images we are currently receiving. The people of Jupiter live in the fourth dimension...I know this because one of them is my neighbor. He only appears in three dimensional space on Tuesdays and Fridays, when he carries out his garbage. He told me there is a massive cover-up by his government - they don't want the people of Jupiter to know about three dimensional space. - Steve - Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!ukma!rutgers!ub!dsinc!gvls1!tredysvr!cellar!revpk From: revpk@cellar.org (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers! Message-ID: <4aaBNB3w164w@cellar.org> Date: 3 Jul 92 01:07:26 GMT References: <4323@ixgch.uucp> Sender: bbs@cellar.org (The Cellar BBS) Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system Lines: 28 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6740 sci.skeptic:26710 alt.paranormal:5349 chris@ixgch.uucp (Christoph Eckert) writes: > From article <-7rljwb.sheaffer@netcom.com>, > by sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer): > > > I wonder how many more years the "flying saucers" will continue to > > avoid unambiguous detection? And I wonder how many more years the > > UFOlogists will be able to convince themselves that there's really > > something "out there" to be proven? > > so you are one of those who DENY the existence of extraterrestrial > intelligence? > > --- Could you please explain this strange leap of logic you've made? Since when does doubt about flying saucers equate with disbelief of extraterrestrial intelligence? It seems perfectly reasonable that somecould could accept that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe, and doubt that they've been visiting this particular planet. You seem to have made a small error in your reasoning. Please correct it. Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano revpk@cellar.org New Sig File Under Construction-- Light and Compact for your Usenet Pleasure. "The recent problem with the satellite retrieval managed to prove one thing; DeVries graduates really _do_ work for NASA." Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!Germany.EU.net!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo From: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Request: Mars face repost! Message-ID: Date: 2 Jul 92 21:27:19 GMT References: Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System Lines: 29 In kirkm@hotcity.COM (Kirk Marcroft) writes: >Could some one please repost the gif of the Face on Mars?! >Thanks >Wookie Hi Wookie, it is still on phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17) in /pub/ufo_and_space_pics if You have FTP access. Over there there are also the original RAW data frames ! Best regards Stefan Hartmann. email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de -- ************************************************************* * Stefan Hartmann This is how to contact me: * * EMAIL: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de * * Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 * ************************************************************* Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!Germany.EU.net!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo From: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.conspiracy Subject: NASA-ICE(UFO)-video Summary: ufo Keywords: ufo Message-ID: Date: 2 Jul 92 23:37:20 GMT Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System Lines: 112 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6742 sci.skeptic:26711 alt.conspiracy:16331 Hi, I just got this info from a friend, who works at NASA right now: ***************************** PROFS Note ***************************** From: PFORREST--VMSPFHOU Date and time 07/01/92 16:10:44 To: POSTMAN --NASAMAIL FROM: FORREST, PHILIP R. DM461 SUBJECT: Yes, I did tape the CNN piece... Stefan, I taped the CNN Larry King Live Program last Freitag (sp?). The most amazing thing about the show is that one of the guests on the program works in my office !!! It was so amazing to see a guy you pass in the hall at work sit in as a guest on Larry King Live !! - International Television !! The name of the guy I work with is Jim Oberg. He is a flight controller here at Mission Control. The position he works in is called a Guidance and Procedures Officer (GPO for short). He is also world renowned for his books on the Soviet Space Program. He is a leading western expert in that field. As for the content of the program... I have finally reached the point in my life where I can speak with knowledgeable authority on the subject discussed during Larry King Live. The guy from UFO magazine was alleging that NASA was involved in a cover up with the CIA (ha ha ha!) to keep knowledge of alien spacecraft sightings during last year's STS-48 mission. The guy from UFO magazine showed a clip of videotape taken during that mission when the crew was asleep. (Ground controllers operate the cameras in the shuttle's payload bay remotely). What's SO funny about it is that the videotape was recorded from a LIVE down-link from NASA to the American public !! If there really was a cover-up, why would NASA risk sending LIVE video to the public !! It just doesn't make sense. Anyway, the video shows an object (really ice) moving across the camera's field of view - suddenly, the object changes direction and speeds up ! Well, I guess to the un-educated, this might look like something an alien craft might do; but I have worked here (NASA) long enough to figure out what happened. When you get the tape from me, keep an eye on the lower left portion of the screen. You will see a quick flash of light which immediately precedes the object's change of direction. What is happening is an RCS jet firing on the shuttle. RCS stands for reaction control system. It is a system of small rocket engines (about 800 lbs. of thrust) which control the shuttle's pitch, roll, and yaw manuevers in space. Anyway, when the crew sleeps (or does something time consuming), the Commander will let the on-board computers fly the shuttle through the auto-pilot system. In order to hold a given attitude, the auto-pilot must fire the RCS jets every so often. What was captured on the video was the passing of a chunk of ice in front of an RCS jet just as it was firing. The plume of gases sent out by the jet caused the ice-pellet to vear off sharply in another direction. You may ask, how do I know it was ice ?? - Well, when I worked in the Propulsion systems office here at NASA, one of my duties was to catalog a history of RCS jet failures. I ran into countless number of jets that had failed because of fuel or oxidizer that had leaked passed the primary jet valves and frozen in the injector plates (where the fuel and oxidizer mix). This would cause the primary valve to get frozen stuck. Somtimes, the valve would not freeze completely shut and the next time the jet would fire, it would send many little pieces of ice flying out from the nozzle. On the video shown on Larry King Live, it looks like one of these pieces happen to pass by the plume of another jet when it was firing.(Often, the jets must fire in succesion to obtain a given attitude or manuever). It was absolutely astounding to see the guy from UFO magazine accuse Jim Oberg of participating in a cover-up ! It really showed me where a lot of these UFO-conspiracy-theorists are coming from. It seems to me that if you WANT to see a conspiracy, you WILL see a conspiracy. I can tell you flat out that there is no-one from either the CIA, or the military telling us here at NASA what to say, or what to do. I think that guy from UFO magazine is a good example of why many top scientists do not want to be associated with any type of UFO research. These full-time UFO researchers need to stop seeing conspiracies where there are none, and start seeing the methods of rigorous scientific investigation. I think after the fruit-cakes get out of the way, maybe some real discoveries will be made. Gotta Run, Phil FORREST, PHILIP R. DM461 Best regards Stefan Hartmann. email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de -- ************************************************************* * Stefan Hartmann This is how to contact me: * * EMAIL: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de * * Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 * ************************************************************* Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!stanford.edu!unix!clipper!kontos From: kontos@clipper.ingr.com (Thorne Kontos) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Alien/U.S. Gov't Collusion Summary: Other vaguely familiar similarities Message-ID: <1992Jul2.150732.5034@clipper.ingr.com> Date: 2 Jul 92 15:07:32 GMT References: <1992Jun24.064259.27289@research.canon.oz.au> Organization: Intergraph Advanced Processor Division - Palo Alto, CA Lines: 20 Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:26712 alt.alien.visitors:6743 In article <1992Jun24.064259.27289@research.canon.oz.au>, andy@research.canon.oz.au (Andy Newman) writes: > I think the text got corrupted in the way to Oz. The bit about JFK > being killed because he was going to tell the world about the aliens > (BTW, Reptoids is a great name - weren't they in V?) was missing ;-) > Andy Newman (andy@research.canon.oz.au) I read this article too, and I got a good laugh out of it. All the elements of a good alien takeover plot. The Greys (or Greymen?) remind me too much of the adversary's in Harry Harrison's Stainless Steel Rat series of sci-fi novels. They too used mind control (via a black box) and came from a dying planet (so it was covered with ice, same difference) although if he said waterless world toss in "The man who fell to earth". Reptoids were indeed too close to the aliens in V. The more I read the funnier it got. On a more objective note about alien invaders: Do you honestly think that a species capable of crossing interstellar distances would necessarily be benign? Highly doubtful, after all, just examine how the human species handles its affairs... Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!uniwa!hamiltl From: hamiltl@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Leon Hamilton) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: ALF Message-ID: <1992Jul3.031423.28061@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> Date: 3 Jul 92 03:14:23 GMT Sender: news@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (USENET News System) Organization: University of Western Australia Lines: 3 Nntp-Posting-Host: tartarus.uwa.edu.au I'd just like to say that I think ALF is the is the most deadlist cool alien ever created. No even E.T. comes close. Gordon Shumway is the best. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers! Message-ID: Date: 2 Jul 92 23:22:15 GMT References: <422800031@peg> <-7rljwb.sheaffer@netcom.com> <1992Jul1.131100.1@fnala.fnal.gov> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 59 In article <1992Jul1.131100.1@fnala.fnal.gov> raph@fnala.fnal.gov writes: >In article <-7rljwb.sheaffer@netcom.com>, >> Of course, after 45 years of chasing after "saucers", we have no more >> solid evidence about this supposed phenomenon than we did in 1947. >> I wonder how many more years the "flying saucers" will continue to >> avoid unambiguous detection? And I wonder how many more years the >> UFOlogists will be able to convince themselves that there's really >> something "out there" to be proven? > >From what I can tell there have been thousands of reported cases of >"unambiguous detection" and likely far more unreported cases. > >For instance, we had a neighbor we had known for over 15 years, quite >normal, honest, and not given to concocting tall tales. One clear >day she and her two sons spotted a UFO hovering several hundred feet >away, over a corner of the property. As they watched, a smaller black > ... >wave of vertigo. About two weeks later, also during the middle of the >day, they were inside the house when they again all experienced a similar >vertigo. The younger son exclaimed, "They're back again," and they all >ran out, where they saw an identical object in the sky in the same position >as before. In a few moments, it banked and flew off. It never returned to >the area as far as they could determine after that. Both we and they >could only conclude that a UFO was unambiguously detected. It wasn't >a fabrication; it wasn't swamp gas or the planet Venus, or a weather >balloon. (Just one example) > Did it stay around long enough for anyone to capture a good closeup photo, preferably a video? Did it stay around for the police to come and get a close look? Or the National Guard, better yet? Did it leave behind any physical evidence that couldn't plausibly be attributed to something else? Did a TV news crew get any good closeup footage of it? Rats! It slipped away AGAIN! Well, we'll catch them alien buggers next time they come. -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the table like a card cheat." - Martin Gardner (writing in "Free Inquiry", Spring, 1992) Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: Date: 2 Jul 92 23:26:44 GMT References: <61259@cup.portal.com> <61433@cup.portal.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 26 In article <61433@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >If all goes well I hope to spend the next 4 days on some property >I'm buying on the sides of Mt. Shasta. >A few very bad predictions and information is coming from >some of the space people. I have some property situated in a strategic position linking Brooklyn to lower Manhattan. Might you possibly be interested in buying this? I think there's a Ley Line there, too. (There *was* an alleged UFO sighting from this bridge, by the way.....) Just asking...... -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the table like a card cheat." - Martin Gardner (writing in "Free Inquiry", Spring, 1992) Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Oh, now come ON, gang. Message-ID: Date: 2 Jul 92 23:29:45 GMT References: Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 22 In article revpk@cellar.org (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano) writes: > > About two weeks ago, I asked if anyone could Email me any material on >government coverups and UFOs, with perhaps some material on these 'Greys' >some people have mentioned. And I ain't heard SQUAT yet. > They *could* send it to you. But then you'd have to be silenced..... -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the table like a card cheat." - Martin Gardner (writing in "Free Inquiry", Spring, 1992) Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys From: garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: DEATH TO THE CIA!!! Message-ID: Date: 3 Jul 92 01:55:08 GMT Sender: bbs@bluemoon.rn.com (BBS Login) Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024]) Lines: 5 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6748 alt.conspiracy:16336 ARGGGGGGGG!!!!!!! This is from garys@bluemoon.rn.com who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: ALF Message-ID: Date: 3 Jul 92 04:49:57 GMT References: <1992Jul3.031423.28061@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> Organization: Between a rock and a type specimen sheet, Boston. Lines: 7 In article <1992Jul3.031423.28061@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> hamiltl@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Leon Hamilton) writes: >I'd just like to say that I think ALF is the is the most deadlist cool >alien ever created. No even E.T. comes close. Gordon Shumway is the >best. But what about ARF? -- K. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!hellgate.utah.edu!lanl!mpx2.lampf.lanl.gov!redd From: redd@mpx2.lampf.lanl.gov (Dale Redd) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party Message-ID: <2JUL199223563878@mpx2.lampf.lanl.gov> Date: 3 Jul 92 05:56:00 GMT References: <74137@ut-emx.uucp> <61283@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@newshost.lanl.gov Organization: LAMPF Data Analysis Center, Los Alamos, New Mexico Lines: 16 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6750 sci.skeptic:26727 News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 In article <61283@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes... >This seems like a good discussion. May I please put me two cents worth >in this conversation. Before I was 22 years old ( and I'm 60 now) I didn't >give UFO's a serious thought, then on the sides of an Atlas missile at >Vandenbery AFB in Caif. I got the idea that there was something I had to >find or do. I went to Alaska and didn't find it and then came back to >the San Francisco Bay Area and met a person that became my teacher. He >taught we many things about UFOs, ESP and other things. To answer one >of your questions as to why UFOs are important to us I believe you'll >find as thousand of people are now finding out that all of us existed >before on other planets and dimensions and it is wake up time. >That's all folks. John Winston. Oh boy, here we go again.................. --Dale (protons are my business) Redd Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!csus.edu!beach.csulb.edu!nic.csu.net!koko.csustan.edu!rat!zeus!drowe From: drowe@zeus.calpoly.edu (Donald H Rowe) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: President Bush mentions ET Message-ID: <1992Jul03.055134.161261@zeus.calpoly.edu> Date: 3 Jul 92 05:51:34 GMT References: <1992Jul2.210946.27902@odin.corp.sgi.com> Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo Lines: 27 In article <1992Jul2.210946.27902@odin.corp.sgi.com> rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: >Hello Anybody, > >Did anyone hear the excerpt from a press conference President Bush gave >that aired on KGO 810 on the AM dial here in the Bay Area? I guess he(PB) >held up this weeks copy of the tabloid "The News" that had Ross Perot on >the cover with an alien, Stating something to the effect that that he(PB) >was betrayed by the alien cause he(the alien) was trying to help Perot get >elected in any way he could & would help him (RP) with the economy.I think >Bush said something like >"He(the alien) is not even wearing any clothes,how can he help with the >economy."These are by no means direct quotes,so please no FLAMES. > >[stuff deleted...] > Yes, I just saw this on the news. Pretty hilarious actually. The Weekly World News had published pictures of Ross and Bush (separately) with the alien. Bush said he "felt betrayed" in part because he told the alien that if the meeting were to take place, he (the alien) wasn't supposed to talk about it to anyone. This is it, finally the government has admitted to it's dealings with aliens; I'd expected it to be a bigger story. ;-) --Don --------------------------------------------------------------- drowe@eos.calpoly.edu Cogito ergo sum. Now if only those people who didn't think... --------------------------------------------------------------- Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!hellgate.utah.edu!lanl!mpx2.lampf.lanl.gov!redd From: redd@mpx2.lampf.lanl.gov (Dale Redd) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party Message-ID: <3JUL199201292402@mpx2.lampf.lanl.gov> Date: 3 Jul 92 07:29:00 GMT References: <74137@ut-emx.uucp> <61283@cup.portal.com> <61435@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@newshost.lanl.gov Organization: LAMPF Data Analysis Center, Los Alamos, New Mexico Lines: 13 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6752 sci.skeptic:26729 News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 In article <61435@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes... >To vu02: >You asked me about wake up time. Some people call it enlightenment. >You might look at it this way, some people are being abducted by good >type space people and they are being told by the space people that they >once lived on the same planet or dimension that the space people are >coming from. >John Winston. Is there any longer a reasonable doubt that this is a put-on? I vote for "K". --Dale Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!ub!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Nasa Video & Occam's Razor Message-ID: <138950.2A53CF08@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 3 Jul 92 03:47:01 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - A sizable amount of debate---not all of it being conducted > with the air of cool-tempered dispassion one would like to > observe on such an occasion---has been sparked by the NASA > video and the explanatory hypotheses put forward by "skeptics" > and (for lack of a better term) "not-so-skeptics" alike; > the meatiest bone of contention seems to have sprung up over > Robert Sheaffer's (sorry, Robert, if I spelt your last name > incorrectly) statement/explanation that the video depicts > nothing more than a chunk of ice obeying Newton's Laws of > motion in response to a burst from an attitude-adjustment > rocket on the Shuttle, and his defense thereof from the > various counterarguments claiming that combinations of > camera/Shuttle motions could not account for the movements > seen in the tape. > > It seems eminently more reasonable to invoke Occam's Razor > here and go with the simpler "ice particle" explanation than > invoke embattled alien spaceships dodging surface-to-air > weaponry as the cause for what is seen in the video, unless > careful analysis of the images contained therein demonstrates > some sort of motion that cannot possibly be reconciled with > Robert's "ice particle/booster rocket" scenario, or some other > data that positively mitigates against it---such as a concrete > determination of the anomalous object's distance from the > Shuttle as being on the order of kilometers, for instance---comes > to the fore. > > Until such determinations can be made, I can see no point in > proponents and opponents of the "ice theory" verbally clawing > each other to shreds over the issue since a fairly convincing > explanation has been posited, and no solid (or even semi-solid) > refutation has come from the other "school of thought". I have to agree with you on this. But, in this debate over what is in that video, I would ask that NASA demonstrate that it is ice. This should be easy enough using their advanced image enhancement equipment. Something of this nature should be easy for them to do. As I would ask on the "not-so-skeptic" side is the same thing I would ask of the "skeptic" side, and that is: prove that it is ice/not ice. What are the elements of evidence on both sides? Do we take the word of NASA that it is ice without reviewing the steps that they took to arrive at this conclusion? Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!batcomputer!reed!henson!news.u.washington.edu!usenet.coe.montana.edu!sinc.oscs.montana.edu!imsgjraq From: imsgjraq@sinc.oscs.montana.edu (Joseph Raquepas) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: A real abduction Message-ID: <1992Jul1.213425.25281@coe.montana.edu> Date: 1 Jul 92 21:34:25 GMT Sender: usenet@coe.montana.edu (USENET News System) Distribution: usa Organization: Montana State University, Bozeman MT Lines: 9 I have a friend who was abducted by aliens last spring. No kidding, he experienced missing time and even has a scar from the ordeal. It was near Brownsville,TX. They demanded his wallet, he said "No!", so they stabbed him in the arm and clubbed him over the head. j. raquepas Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!rice!uw-beaver!news.u.washington.edu!usenet.coe.montana.edu!sinc.oscs.montana.edu!imsgjraq From: imsgjraq@sinc.oscs.montana.edu (Joseph Raquepas) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Gray Recipes Message-ID: <1992Jul2.200313.1333@coe.montana.edu> Date: 2 Jul 92 20:03:13 GMT Sender: usenet@coe.montana.edu (USENET News System) Distribution: usa Organization: Montana State University, Bozeman MT Lines: 6 Hey, what happened to all of those wonderfull gray recipes? Things were just starting to get interesting in this group... and then they stopped. j raquepas Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rice!uw-beaver!news.u.washington.edu!nntp.uoregon.edu!cajal.uoregon.edu!johnm From: johnm@cajal.uoregon.edu (John Martin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: REPOST: Mars Face .GIF Keywords: n Message-ID: <1992Jul3.125530.12594@nntp.uoregon.edu> Date: 3 Jul 92 12:55:30 GMT References: <61227@cup.portal.com> <61433@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul2.163321.21212@odin.corp.sgi.com> Sender: news@nntp.uoregon.edu Organization: Institute of Neuroscience, University of Oregon Lines: 573 Here is the repost of the .gif of the face on mars, along with it's accompanying text file. The text file follws first, then the uuencoded ..gif: -----> Text Begins Keith; I've taken Loren Carpenter's images and made them into a gif file, which encludes both the raw data and a filtered or enhanced version of both frames. Below are Loren Carpenter's original comments. Maybe you know someone that is willing to do the same (create .gif files) of the rest of the frames if you could get them from Loren. Steve Leach From Loren Carpenter; >I've been reading the chatter on the net about the "Mars face" for some time. >Most, if not nearly all, of the opinions and observations have been based on >little or no information. This is largely because of the difficulty of >obtaining the original imagery. >A few years ago when I was with Lucasfilm, I was asked by Mr. Hoagland >and associates if I would participate in the "Mars Project". This was >to be an informal group of technically capable people who could tinker >around with the "face" and "city" pictures in their spare time. Work >being what it was, my spare time evaporated and I drifted away from the group. >However, for the last 5 years I've had Viking Orbiter pictures 35A72 and >70A13 on a tape on my shelf. This posting contains the only two images >of the "face" returned by Viking. Both images in this posting are >100x100 excerpts from 35A72 and 70A13 respectively. >The data is exactly as I received it. It's pretty noisy and there is an >obnoxious riseau mark in one of the images. Most of the noise appears to >be caused by "broken bits", i.e. 1 (or maybe 2) bits toggled somewhere >in the pixel. I wrote a smart median filter and it cleaned them up fairly >well. >For ease of decoding (everybody doesn't have every spiffy decompressor) each >image is encoded in hexadecimal. 4 lines of text constitute 1 scanline of >picture. I have also included the file header for each image. It contains >camera and sun information, if you can figure it out... >The original pictures are 1204x1055, so don't expect to see them on the net. >Our management won't let other sites log on to ftp files around, so if there >is someone who wants to be a librarian, I can probably send them the full >files. >I haven't done anything serious with these images, so please don't flood me >with questions. Personally, I think it's just a pile of dirt. The Mars >Observer will have 25x the resolution, so hang on a couple of years and >we can all see what a pile of dirt looks like up close. >The excerpts are offset as follows: > 35A72: 318 in x, 416 in y > 70A13: 152 in x, 874 in y > Loren Carpenter > ...{ucbvax,sun}!pixar!loren >Here is the first one... >10571600 L 1 >CVO75 1B PICNO= 035A72 C >FILTER 4 (CLEAR) EXP 34 MSEC FGD 111 >CFSC 26588045 OET-GMT 76 207 15 25 14 >TPER +00 12 05 >CRNG= 5239 KM HFOV= 55 KM VFOV= 50 KM SCL= 46 M/PXL >CSMEAR= 2.5 PXLS >SMRDIR= 216 DEG FROM UP HRA 278 DG >CNOR AZ 154 DG SUN AZ 88 DG S/C AZ 323 DG >INA 79 DG EMA 10 DG CPHA 86 DG >SUNS LS= 99.2 DG EDR= CN1244 01 MAX-D= >CLAT C= +40.90 UL= +41.14 UR= +40.28 LL= +41.52 LR= +40.65 >CLONG C= 9.52 UL= 8.76 UR= 9.28 LL= 9.77 LR= 10.28 L >[data deleted] >Here is the second one... >10571600 L 1 >CVO75 1A PICNO= 070A13 C >FILTER 4 (CLEAR) EXP 17 MSEC FGD 111 >CFSC 27280098 OET-GMT 76 243 12 38 33 >TPER +00 09 05 >CRNG= 5085 KM HFOV= 51 KM VFOV= 47 KM SCL= 43 M/PXL >CSMEAR= 1.3 PXLS >SMRDIR= 203 DEG FROM UP HRA 252 DG >CNOR AZ 170 DG SUN AZ 86 DG S/C AZ 310 DG >INA 62 DG EMA 12 DG CPHA 71 DG >SUNS LS= 115.6 DG EDR= CN1475 06 MAX-D= >CLAT C= +40.60 UL= +40.96 UR= +40.10 LL= +41.11 LR= +40.25 >CLONG C= 9.24 UL= 8.64 UR= 8.82 LL= 9.67 LR= 9.84 L >[data deleted] -------> Text Ends ------->CUT HERE<------- begin 644 marsface.gif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Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rice!uw-beaver!news.u.washington.edu!usenet.coe.montana.edu!sinc.oscs.montana.edu!imsgjraq From: imsgjraq@sinc.oscs.montana.edu (Joseph Raquepas) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: ALF Keywords: n Message-ID: <1992Jul3.143433.23660@coe.montana.edu> Date: 3 Jul 92 14:34:33 GMT References: <1992Jul3.031423.28061@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> Sender: usenet@coe.montana.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Montana State University, Bozeman MT Lines: 4 Hey! Don't let the cute ones give you a false sense of security! After all---that's what they want. |-) jr Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rice!uw-beaver!news.u.washington.edu!usenet.coe.montana.edu!banach.oscs.montana.edu!imsgjraq From: imsgjraq@banach.oscs.montana.edu (Joseph Raquepas) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: alien replys Keywords: n Message-ID: <1992Jul3.163807.28231@coe.montana.edu> Date: 3 Jul 92 16:38:07 GMT References: <92185.105532EJC109@psuvm.psu.edu> Sender: usenet@coe.montana.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Montana State University, Bozeman MT Lines: 9 Hey, no kidding. The origin of the species of some of the students I see around campus is certainly a mystery. Perhaps , while we're not paying attention THEY are sneeking in through the back door by infesting unpopulated states like Montana. Pretty soon you'll think "Hey, that's just they way those people are out there. " And before you know it your daughter will bring one home and want to marry it. jr Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!sarah!newserve!bingsuns!vu0208 From: vu0208@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (!) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party Message-ID: <1992Jul3.180407.21031@newserve.cc.binghamton.edu> Date: 3 Jul 92 18:04:07 GMT References: <61283@cup.portal.com> <1992Jun29.172426.22961@newserve.cc.binghamton.edu> <61435@cup.portal.com> Sender: usenet@newserve.cc.binghamton.edu (Mr News) Organization: State University of New York at Binghamton Lines: 20 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6760 sci.skeptic:26755 Nntp-Posting-Host: bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu In article <61435@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >To vu0208: >You asked me about wake up time. Some people call it enlightenment. >You might look at it this way, some people are being abducted by good >type space people and they are being told by the space people that they >once lived on the same planet or dimension that the space people are >coming from. >John Winston. If the above is true: How we were brought on "earth" planet? Why we were down loaded here? What they want from us now? Can we go back and live with them? How do they plan to take us back there..? - vu0208 Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!ox-prg!oxuniv!jdporter From: jdporter@vax.oxford.ac.uk Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <1992Jul3.113014.7291@vax.oxford.ac.uk> Date: 3 Jul 92 10:30:13 GMT References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61373@cup.portal.com> <61430@cup.portal.com> Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster Lines: 39 In article <61430@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > To Julian Porter: > You ask how Omnec Onec the lady from Venus was able to live on Earth > if she was from Venus. Most of the people on Venus exist in the fourth > dimension we are mostly in the third. I suggest you learn a little geometry. We do not live in any one particular dimension - if anything did live in *one* dimension it would be a line. As it is, space-time is (according to the best bets at the moment) 3+1 dimensional, with three being spacial dimensions and the extra 1 a temporal one. All objects in the universe are fully four-dimensional in nature. > She went through a process that > lowered her vibrational frequency that allowed her to operate in our > reality. This would have no effect whatsoever upon her shape, and would not change the fact that a body which exist for a period of time is a four-dimensional object. Again, you can't go about talking in a vague and wooly way about dimensions and thinking that 'our reality' is different because it only has three dimensions - what do you think time is? Dimensions are simply parameters of freedom of motion and (as the fourth temporal dimension is privileged and set apart from the other three) it is impossible to hide things away in them. > It's sort of like the catapillar that looked up at the beautiful > butterfly in the sky and said, "You'll never get me up in one of those > things. > John Winston. This hasn't actually answered my query - the next thing to ask, is if she does live in a fourth dimension in some peculiar way, how would her projection to the spacial dimensions wer are happy with survive on the three dimensional version of Venus, which is as I suggested before, a not very nice place - it was well described by somebody I heard on the radio the other night as somewhere that you would simultaneously be burned, corroded and squashed. Julian Porter Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!ox-prg!oxuniv!jdporter From: jdporter@vax.oxford.ac.uk Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <1992Jul3.113748.7293@vax.oxford.ac.uk> Date: 3 Jul 92 10:37:48 GMT References: <61006@cup.portal.com><61227@cup.portal.com> <61429@cup.portal.com> Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster Lines: 19 In article <61429@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > To Julian Porter. > I believe that you will find that most people who believe in UFOs > feel that if their are all those stars out there and if those stars > have planets around them then maybe some of them are coming around > our Earth and we are seeing them in their craft. > John Winston. You have made many suppositions here - viz (for example) we don't really know of any well authenticated planetary systems other than this one (the one that was thought to have been found was discovered to not be one) and we certainly don't know whether even if there were planetary systems they would house intelligent life. I personally think that they would, but it is safer to hedge the bets somewhat. The next point is simply the semantic one of my earlier post - UFO does not mean alien space-ship. The UFO phenomenon is well documented. However, any interpretation of this phenomenon should be treated with care, as there is not yet sufficient evidence to build one. In my original post I was simply suggesting that you should be more careful with your use of the term UFO Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!ox-prg!oxuniv!jdporter From: jdporter@vax.oxford.ac.uk Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party Message-ID: <1992Jul3.114017.7294@vax.oxford.ac.uk> Date: 3 Jul 92 10:40:17 GMT References: <74137@ut-emx.uucp> <61283@cup.portal.com><1992Jun29.172426.22961@newserve.cc.binghamton.edu> <61435@cup.portal.com> Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster Lines: 11 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6763 sci.skeptic:26757 In article <61435@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > To vu02: > You asked me about wake up time. Some people call it enlightenment. > You might look at it this way, some people are being abducted by good > type space people and they are being told by the space people that they > once lived on the same planet or dimension that the space people are > coming from. > John Winston. A truly enlightening experience!! (I think confusion wouldbe a better word to use) Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bx304 From: bx304@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeff Epler) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: President Bush mentions ET Message-ID: <1992Jul4.025747.10303@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> Date: 4 Jul 92 02:57:47 GMT References: <1992Jul2.210946.27902@odin.corp.sgi.com> Sender: news@usenet.ins.cwru.edu Reply-To: bx304@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeff Epler) Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) Lines: 33 Nntp-Posting-Host: cwns9.ins.cwru.edu In a previous article, rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) says: >Hello Anybody, > >Did anyone hear the excerpt from a press conference President Bush gave >that aired on KGO 810 on the AM dial here in the Bay Area? I guess he(PB) >held up this weeks copy of the tabloid "The News" that had Ross Perot on >the cover with an alien, Stating something to the effect that that he(PB) >was betrayed by the alien cause he(the alien) was trying to help Perot get >elected in any way he could & would help him (RP) with the economy.I think >Bush said something like >"He(the alien) is not even wearing any clothes,how can he help with the >economy."These are by no means direct quotes,so please no FLAMES. The story, as it will unfold, is this: The alien in question is a rich alien from the planet sillyname. However, he was born inside the US embassy (In 1954) and is therefore a US citzen and greater than 35 years of age. This alien plans to use mind-control and hypnosis techniques to force the free people of the United States of America to vote for him this November. This Alien plans to steal the reigns of government out from under Human hands. This Alien Story is a Joke. -- |Jeff Epler | | :) (=( =-] (-= Celebrating the variety of faces =-> :^) {-= |-) (: | | Lincoln, Nebraska| Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!dog.ee.lbl.gov!hellgate.utah.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: President Bush Mentions Et Message-ID: <138971.2A54C1D3@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 3 Jul 92 20:38:01 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - At any rate I was just curious if any other news stations carried this > commment. > Other than to try & make Ross Perot look foolish,I can't think of a > reason > he would even mention something like this ,can you? Will anyone admit to > seeing the issue or its contents? It was on CNN Headline News yesterday with Bush telling the cameras that he told the ET that it was going to have to be kept secret. What a joke! Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!dog.ee.lbl.gov!hellgate.utah.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: A Real Abduction Message-ID: <138972.2A54C1D5@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 3 Jul 92 20:40:01 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - I have a friend who was abducted by aliens last spring. No kidding, > he experienced missing time and even has a scar from the ordeal. > > It was near Brownsville,TX. They demanded his wallet, he said "No!", > so they stabbed him in the arm and clubbed him over the head. Now that you have had your fun, I think I hear your mother calling you. :-) Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!comp.vuw.ac.nz!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!kc From: Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: President Bush mentions ET Message-ID: <32420.1869220686@kcbbs.gen.nz> Date: 5 Jul 92 09:00:20 GMT References: <1992Jul2.210946.27902@odin.corp.sgi.com> Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand Lines: 20 rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com(Rod Beckwith) 2 July 92 21:09:46 GMT types- >did anyone here the excerpt from a press conference President Bush ga >ve that was aired on KGO 810 on the AM dial here in the Bay area Well in the 8.5 years I've been listning to the Voice of America I can recall only once hearing about aliens of the ETOI kind on any news program & that was this very story(unless Bush has gone on an alien binge) which if I recall rightly was in The Weekly World News claiming that Alien/s met with Bush & Ross Perot.Bush replied that he hoped that the alien wasn't supporting Perot & made a few other remarks that alas reception didn't permit a comprehension of. Does this mean Bush is getting desperate? or is it a Perot smear campaign in which case is it by or against him?. ******************************* ARE ETOI SPACESHIPS SHY OO ARE THEY JUST WAITING TO SEAL THE ROYALTY DEAL ******************************* Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!m.cs.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!mcgrath From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors Subject: A Confirmed UFO Coverup Message-ID: <1992Jul4.211256.22707@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Date: 4 Jul 92 21:12:56 GMT Sender: news@m.cs.uiuc.edu (News Database (admin-Mike Schwager)) Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science Lines: 37 Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:26777 alt.paranormal:5351 alt.alien.visitors:6768 We've all heard that the truth about UFOs is being covered up, but many of us nasty, scoffing, skeptics thought this a bunch of childish or paranoid nonsense. Well now we have a confirmation of a cover up from the arch skeptic himself, Phil Klass. Explain this one away, if you can! Recent (March/April) issu of _International UFO Reporter_ (IUR), the bimonthly publication of the Hynek Center for UFO Studies [CUFOS], carried a feature story by pro-UFOlogists Zan Overhill, which reveals that Ed Walters reported launched hot air balloons to genrate UFO reports when he was living in Costa Rica during the 1970s. Overall learned this from Tommy Smith, a friend of Ed's son, who in mid-1990 revealed that Ed tried to involve him in making hoax UFO-photos in late 1987. _IUR_ editor Jerome Clark decided to delete several brief segments of Overall's article incluting his comment: "While I disagree with Phil Klass on most UFO cases, I am quite willing to give the 'bedeviller' his due and acknowledge his good work on the Gulf Breeze case, particularly regarding the [UFO] model and the house plans [used in the model]. I recommend his _Skeptics UFO Newsletter_ to anyon wanting to stay up to date on the skeptical view of Gulf Breeze and UFOs." Clark also deleted another compilmentary reference. [_SUN_'s editor understands how excruciatingly painful it would have been for Clark to publish any such compliment in _IUR_.] From "The Skeptics UFO Newsletter by Phillip J. Klass", July, 1992, p. 5. I note that, so far as I know, MUFON is still suppressing the report on Gulf Breeze submitted by their own investigators. Has anyone seen the Salisbury's report? Is it really juicy? Why won't MUFON publish it? -- Robert E. McGrath Urbana Illinois mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!udel!sbcs.sunysb.edu!libws2.ic.sunysb.edu!dtiberio From: dtiberio@libws2.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Perot for President Message-ID: <1992Jul4.215930.8542@sbcs.sunysb.edu> Date: 4 Jul 92 21:59:30 GMT Sender: usenet@sbcs.sunysb.edu (Usenet poster) Distribution: na Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook Lines: 539 Nntp-Posting-Host: libws2.ic.sunysb.edu This document is brought to you by the volunteer association of the People for Perot. H Ross Perot is a likely presidential candidate in the 1992 election year here in the United States of America. He has shown the clearest and most concise agenda, as well as proved that he will get the job done, unlike the typical politicians that have proceeded to do nothing and take our country nowhere in the past 12 years. If you care about your country, register to vote in this year's elections and prepare for the next revolution. Not since John F Kennedy has the United States seen the likes of H Ross Perot. This may be your last chance. - David Tiberio 6 Lodge Lane East Setauket, New York 11733 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Who is Ross Perot? Background information indicates the following about Ross Perot: - Honest and forthright. Honors commitments to subordinates and others. Resolute and determined in anything he undertakes. - Independently wealthy and has character traits indicating that he will not sellout the nation's interest for personal gain. - Will pursue the public interest with commitment & determination. - Denounces special privileges or exemptions from law for elected officials. - Believes that the American public should be informed of the true facts and be afforded more influence over their government. - Believes that the predominance of foreign and special-interest influence over government decisions should stop. - Believes that former elected and appointed officials should not be able to sell their job influence and connections. - Understands that our government's economic failings are leading it toward ruin and commits to reversing that trend. - Believes in fundamental, long-term solutions to our problems instead of quick fixes or silence (as with the S&L's in 1986-88). - Sees stopping the recent decline of the nation's job base as critical and the creation of industrial jobs as a top priority. - Believes in a possibility and a necessity to reduce government spending, and that there is substantial wasteful spending. - Has demonstrated an ability as an interested private citizen to work effectively on important public issues. - Knows the difference between appearance and substance, and pursues the latter. - Is a problem solver - and we have problems to solve! His personal demeanor is analytical and straight-forward. - Has expressed a willingness to undertake a supreme challenge against great odds and wee-entrenched, powerful interests. Bruce Martin Bainbridge Island, WA ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Biography of Ross Perot Ross Perot was born June 27th, 1930, in Texarkana, Texas. He grew up in Texarkana where he attended public schools and Texarkana Junior college. Perot's parents, Ross and Lulu May Perot, have been the major influences in both his and his sister Bette's lives. Although the family lived in modest circumstances, Perot has repeatedly stated that he was born rich because of his parents. Beginning at age seven, Perot worked at various jobs throughout his boyhood, including: breaking horses, selling Christmas cards, selling garden seeds, selling magazines, buying and selling bridles and saddles, buying and selling horses and calves, delivering newspapers, and collecting for classified ads. He entered the United States Naval Academy in 1949 and graduated in 1953. While at the Naval Academy, he served as class president, chairman of the honor commitee, and battalion commander. After graduation, Perot served at sea for four years on a destroyer and an aircraft carrier. In 1956, he married Margot Birmingham from Greensburg, Pennsylvania whom he met while a midshipman at the Naval Academy. Upon his honorable discharge from the Navy in 1957, Ross and Margot settled in Dallas where he went to work for IBM's data processing division as a salesman. Margot taught school during the early of years of their marriage. In 1962, she loaned Perot $1,000 from her savings account to start a one-man data processing company. He named the company Electronic Data Systems. Today, EDS is a multi-billion dollar corporation, employing more than 70,000 people. Ross and Margot have been married for thirty-five years. They live in Dallas. They have five children - Ross Jr., Nancy, Suzanne, Carolyn, and Katherine. The Perots currently have four grandchildren, and are looking forward to the births of two more this year. In 1969, the US government asked Perot to determine what action might be taken to improve the brutal treatment out POW's were receiving in Southeast Asia. He worked on this project for the next four years placing himself and his family at considerable risk, until the prisoners were released in 1973 at the end of the war. In recognition of his efforts, Perot received the Medal for Distinguished Public Service, the highest civilian award presented by the Department of Defense. When two EDS employees were taken hostage by the Iranian government in 1979, Perot directed a successful rescue mission composed of EDS employees and led by Colonel Arthur "Bull" Simons. Perot personally went to Iran, and inside the prison where his associates were held. Noted author, Ken Follett, wrote a best selling novel, On Wings of Eagles, about the rescue. An NBC Television miniseries was later made about this event. Later that same year, the governor of Texas requested Perot's help in dealing with the growing problem of the use of illegal drugs in the state. Perot led the Texan's War on Drugs committee that proposed five laws to make Texas the least desirable state for illegal drug operations. All five bills were passed by the legislature and signed into law. In 1984, another Texas governor asked for Perot's assistance with a deteriorating situation - the quality of public education in the state. Recognizing that a first-class educational system is the foundation for economic improvement, Perot led the effort to reform the school system. This program resulted in major legislative changes and improvements in Texas public schools. Perot accepted another challenge that same year when he sold EDS to General Motors for $2.5 billion. The ownership that he retained in the company made him GM's largest individual stockholder and a member of the board of directors. After major disagreements over the quality of GM automobiles, Perot resigned from the GM board in 1986. In 1988, Perot started a new computer service company, Perot Systems. Today the company operates in the United States and Europe. Perot has been the recipient of numerous awards and honors, including: - The Winston Churchill Award. Perot was the third recipient and the only businessman to receive this award, given to those who best exemplify the imagination, boldness, and vigor of the late British prime minister. The presentation was made by Prince Charles in 1986. - The Raoul Wallenberg Award. As the first recipient of this award, Perot was honored for a lifetime of service that embodies the spirit, courage, and dedication of Raoul Wallenberg, the Swedish diplomat who saved more than 100,000 Hungarian Jews from the Nazis during World War II. - The Jefferson Award for Public Service - The Patrick Henry Award. Perot was the first recipient of this award given to an American for outstanding service to his country. - The National Business Hall of Fame Award. - The Sarnoff Award for contributions to the electronics industry. - The Eisenhower Award for support of our Armed Forces. - The Smithsonian Computerworld Award. As the first recipient of this award, Perot was recognized for his contributions to the computer industry. - The Horation Alger Award. This award is presented to individuals who overcome obstacles to achieve significant successin their careers. In 1984, Perot purchased the only copy of the Magna Carta that has been allowed to be taken out of Great Britain. It has been placed on loan to the National Archives in Washington, DC where it is displayed alongside the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. The Perot family is actively involved in charitable and civic activities to help the needy. they have given over $100 million to these causes. EXCERPTS FROM ROSS PEROT'S REMARKS TO THE NATIONAL PRESS CLUB March 18, 1992 "We own this country. It belongs to us..." "We don't like to accept this, but we live in a tiny little world and we're stuck with international competition. You don't have to like it but you're stuck with it - somebody winds and somebody loses and they don't even give you a red ribbon when you lose in business." "We've got to out-think, out-invent, and out-produce our international business competitors if we want to maintain the high standard of living that our people have enjoyed until now. Many of our international competitors have an advantage over us at this point. We had the world's greatest economin engine that let us do these things. We let it slip away and with it went a significant part of our tax base... Our present policies will move us from superpower to third world status." On the deficit: "Unfortunately, [Washington] has become a town filled with sound bites, shell games, handlers, media stunt men who posture, create images and talk, shoot off roman candles, but don't ever accomplish anything..." "We're $4 trillion dollars in debt. We owe another $5 trillion we don't like to talk about - just try to keep it down there in the basement. You say, Ross, what are you talking about? I'm talking about a $1 trillion unfunded federal pension liability. Any question in your mind we're going to have to cough that up someday?" "The additional debt piled up in 1992, just this one year, the election year, will exceed the total expenditures of the federal government of the first 155 years of our country's existence." "See, the man on the street deson't know what $400 billion is - that kind of clears his head. The interest on the national debt just this year exceeds the cost to fight and win World War II. Please never forget that paying interest does not buy anything for the American people." "The national debt was only $1 trillion in 1980 when President Reagan took office. It is now $4 trillion. maybe it was voodoo economics. Whatever it was, we are now in deep voodoo, I'll tell you that." On why we're in this mess: "We were told at the tax and budget summit that the 5-year budget deficit would be $92 billion; now we're told it will be $1 trillion - that's just a $900 billion mistake. The chief financial officer of a publically held corporation would be sent to prison if he kept books like our government..." "Now, who's at fault? The first thing you have to do in our country is blame somebody, right? Well, go home tonight and look in the mirror... You and I are at fault because we own this country and there is the problem in a nutshell. We have abdicated our ownership responsibility. As owners of this country, we hold the future of this country in the palm of our hands." "I feel that as owners of this country that if we're going anywhere you've got to send [elected officials] a message; You work for us; we don't work for you. Under the Constitution, you are our servants. Grow up! Work as a team. Serve the people. Solve the problem, move on to the next one. Build a better country and stop throwing away money we don't have." On elections: "Why do we have elections on Tuesday? [A] working fellow can't get there. Let's have elections on Saturday and Sunday. Why can't we leave the polls open two days?" What can be done? "Here are a few basic facts - things we've got to do. We're deeply in debt. We're spending beyond our means. We've got to protect the job base... That's where the taxes come from. People who do not work cannot pay taxes... We need strong, growing companies to keep America at work and that has got to be our highest priority." "We can help in the government level be ceasing the adversarial practices with business and not getting our pockets picked in international trade negotiations. In our country there is an adversial relationship between government and business and [with] our international competitors who are winning. There is an intelligent, supportive relationship between government and business." On education: "Our educational system has to be the finest in the world. We know what needs to be done... Let's stop having two-day summits with governors that don't amount to anything, and let's get down to blocking and tackling and fixing it now because you won't have the benefits for 15-20 years. Every day is precious and we just talk about it." On business: "You've got to have strategic plans by industry - there are industries we've just got to keep in this country and we're losing them right and left. We've got to target them; they will create millions of jobs. We've got to make sure that we're first and best. In Japan, that's called MITI [Ministry of International Trade and Industry]. Study it. Analyze it. Inprove on it, instead of trying to dismantle our companies." "Washington's principal contribution to American industry is to try to break its legs every day. Anybody that's a businessman will tell you that." On taxes: "Our current tax system is like an old inner tube with 1,000 patches. I suggest we throw it out and start with a blank sheet of paper. Set the criteria. Number 1, it must be fair, Number 1A, it's got to raise the revenues. Number 2, it should be paperless for most Americans. This is nothing more than running several different computer models, building consensus with the American people and moving forward with a new tax system that works." On raising taxes: "You've got to take away Congress' right to raise taxes - now there's a radical idea... If they need more money, just put it on the ballot and let the owners of the country sign it off... [and] from now on if they want to raise, put it on the ballot... Give the president the line item veto to get rid of pork barrel and waste..." On trade: "The White House is all excited about the new trade agreement with Mexico. This agreement will move the highest paid, blue-collar jobs from the U.S. to Mexico. This is going to create some serious damage to our tax base during this critical period. We have got to manufacture here not there to keep our tax base intact..." "There is no place to run, no place to hide, you've got to make the words 'made in the U.S.A' the world's standard for excellence once again. Otherwise people won't buy our products. If you wonder about that, just go home and look at your television and your consumer electronics tonight. Look at the car you're driving. We can help on the government level by ceasing the adversarial practices with businesses and not getting our pockets picked at international trade negotiations." On public service: "Congress absolutely must not exempt itself from the laws it imposed on us... Stop cashing in on public service. Pass a law [that]... Former federal officials, elected, appointed and career service officials, cannot serve as lobbyists for domestic interests for five years after they leave office. They cannot lobby for foreign countries, companies or individuals for 10 years and there are criminal penalties if you do... You don't come to Washington to cash in, you come to serve people. Pass a law to make it a criminal offense for foreign companies or individuals to influence laws or policies with money." On spending: "We spend over $400 billion a year on education, including colleges, yet we rank at the bottom of the industrialized world in terms of academic achievement. We have the largest number of functional illiterates in the industrialized world... We spend a lot on education that doesn't work. We spend more than anybody else on health care, and yet we rank behind 15 nations in life expectancy and 22 other nations in infant mortality." "We need fundamental long-term solutions to these problems, and at this point we're running around in Washington with a hyperdermic needle loaded with Novocain trying to give everybody quick, temporary pain relief just to get past election." On citizen involvement: "You say, 'All right, Ross. Which one of the presidential candidates can fix this?' Solomon can't fix this - the wisest man that ever lived. You know why? Because we have to fix it. You cannot just go vote in November, send some poor devil up there and go home. You're going to have to get in the ring, stay in the ring and act like you own this country." "In summary, we own this country. Government should come from us... We've got to put the country back in control of the owners. In plain Texas talk, it's time to take out the trash and clean the barn or it's going to be too late." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you would like to know more about Ross Perot, please feel free to call the Long Island headquarters or your local regional coordinator. We are hoping to here from organizers in other regions as well. And tell them that David Tiberio sent you. Long Island, New York Headquarters: (516) 248-2568 (516) 872-ROSS / (516) 872-7677 Suffolk County Office (516) 968-9625 (516) 399-2259 Or write to: Perot for President c/o Mr. John G. Plevjak 34 Hay Road Shirley, New York 11967-3715 (516) 399-2259 Perot for President c/o David Tiberio 6 Lodge Lane East Setauket, New York 11733 dtiberio@libserv1.ic.sunysb.edu dtiberio%libserv1.ic.sunysb.edu@sunysb.edu (preferred) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- H ROSS PEROT for PRESIDENT Together, We Can Make It Happen! Call Us If You Want A Change (516) 968-9625 (516) 399-2259 Date ___________ Please Print Name __________________________________________________________________ Address _______________________________________________________________ City ___________________________ State ____________ ZIP ___________ Phone: Home ( ) __________________________________________________ Work ( ) __________________________________________________ Fax ( ) __________________________________________________ Are you a registered voter? YES NO Have you voted in the Primary? YES NO Have you signed a nomination petition? YES NO Would you like to volunteer? YES NO If YES, what days are you available? SAT SUN MON TUES WED THURS FRI What hours are you available? _____________________________________ Your occupation ___________________________________________________ Group affiliation _________________________________________________ VOLUNTEER INFORMATION: ___ Send Information ___ Office Skills ___ Media ___ Sign Petition ___ Phone ___ Notary ___ Carry Petition ___ Driver ___ Voter Registration ___ Data Entry ___ Sign Language ___ Word Processing Words/Minute _____ ___ Bi-Lingual Languages _________________________________________ ___ Other _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________ EQUIPMENT AVAILABLE: ___ Copy machine ___ Fax ___ Phones ___ Office Space ___ Computer ___ Phone Lines ___ Transportation ___ Other _____________________________ Other assistance you can offer ________________________________________ COMMENTS: RETURN TO: Mr John G Plevjak 34 Hay Road Shirley, New York 11967-3715 David Tiberio 6 Lodge Lane East Setauket, New York 11733 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- // David Tiberio SUNY Stony Brook 516-473-5156 AMIGA DDD-MEN // bounce-resistant: dtiberio%libserv1.ic.sunysb.edu@sunysb.edu \X/ Liverpool, New York Perot for President Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!udel!gvls1!tredysvr!cellar!revpk From: revpk@cellar.org (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Thanks for the replies Message-ID: Date: 4 Jul 92 20:08:11 GMT Sender: bbs@cellar.org (The Cellar BBS) Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system Lines: 9 I just recieved about twenty-two letters chock full of information regarding the saucers, the Greys, and whatnot. Thanks to all concerned. Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano revpk@cellar.org New Sig File Under Construction-- Light and Compact for your Usenet Pleasure. "The recent problem with the satellite retrieval managed to prove one thing; DeVries graduates really _do_ work for NASA." Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!ts From: ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: A Confirmed UFO Coverup Message-ID: <61525@cup.portal.com> Date: 4 Jul 92 23:24:25 GMT References: <1992Jul4.211256.22707@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 1 Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:26780 alt.paranormal:5352 alt.alien.visitors:6771 Is a UFO coverup like a car bra? Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!psgrain!percy!agora!krowell From: krowell@agora.rain.com (Keith Rowell) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Bush reads tabloid story re aliens Message-ID: <1992Jul4.222222.18144@agora.uucp> Date: 4 Jul 92 22:22:22 GMT Sender: krowell@agora.uucp (Keith Rowell) Organization: Open Communications Forum Lines: 60 A strange article showed up recently in newspapers. The following article was accompanied by a photo showing President Bush clearly reading the July 14, 1992, issue of the World Weekly News tabloid! Helen Thomas, a long time member of the Washington press corps, is visible in the lower left corner of the photo. From the (Portland) Oregonian, July 3, 1992: A Creature From Exotic Planet Tabloid Deserts Bush by Rita Beamish The Associated Press WASHINGTION -- This just in! Alien deserts Bush campaign to sign up with Ross Perot! President peeved! There it was on Page 4 of the Weekly World News -- a purported photograph of Bush with the extraterrestrial. And on the tabloid's front page, a purported photo of Perot and the alien walking down the corridor of a Dallas office. "This is not fair," the president complained when he spied a copy of the tabloid at this Capitol news conference Thursday. He picked up the newspaper, which he clearly had seen before, and went straight to Page 4. There was Bush with a bald, smooth-bodied creature who had a humanlike face and thin, plastic-looking body. The caption read: "President Bush, who met with the extraterrestrial in 1991, feels betrayed by the alien's visit with Perot, say administration insiders." "I told him to keep this thing secret," Bush complained. Then he began reading the headline: "Extraterrestrial who met with George Bush at Camp David." Bush continued: "I told him, I said, 'If I'm going to meet with you, never discuss it.'" In mock lament, he added, "I thought he was for me all along, and there he is" with Perot. A reporter wanted to know what all this had to do with health care, the ostensible subject of Bush's news conference. Bush turned to another topic of the day and said, "It has to do with unemployment. The guy doesn't even have a suit." The tabloid wrote that Perot "secretly met with a space alien late last spring and we've got the photograph to prove it!" "Perot insiders confirm that possible trade and cooperation initiatives between the alien's home planet and the United States were discussed." The story did not explain how the alien's height matched both Bush and Perot in the two photographs. Bush is 6-foot-2 and Perot is 5- foot-6. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!munnari.oz.au!yoyo.aarnet.edu.au!dstos3.dsto.gov.au!bat From: bat@dstos3.dsto.gov.au Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: RE: INVASION !!!!! again !!! Message-ID: <1992Jul5.205607.164187@dstos3.dsto.gov.au> Date: 6 Jul 92 02:56:07 GMT Organization: Defence Science and Technology Organisation Lines: 25 ?~?~3;1;2;4;8;9;15c2;4;8;9;15c ____________ | ___ ___ | |/ 0 | | 0 \| | | | | | | |__| ------------ OK Mr Stollman I'll play your game. You are attempting to attract attention, either that or you have some serious emotional problems. I like some sci-fi at times so how about you tell us your story Mr Stollman, it might amuse someone and then perhaps you can shut up. Brenton Thomas Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!ekman From: ekman@netcom.com (Crossly the Glad-Eyed Bear) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Perot for President Message-ID: <7g4l9tb.ekman@netcom.com> Date: 5 Jul 92 05:36:50 GMT References: <1992Jul4.215930.8542@sbcs.sunysb.edu> Distribution: na Organization: Home for the Terminally Infirm Lines: 19 In article <1992Jul4.215930.8542@sbcs.sunysb.edu> dtiberio@libws2.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes: > This document is brought to you by the volunteer association of the > People for Perot. H Ross Perot is a likely presidential candidate in the > 1992 election year here in the United States of America. He has shown the > clearest and most concise agenda, as well as proved that he will get the > job done, unlike the typical politicians that have proceeded to do nothing > and take our country nowhere in the past 12 years. If you care about your > country, register to vote in this year's elections and prepare for the > next revolution. Not since John F Kennedy has the United States seen the > likes of H Ross Perot. This may be your last chance. That's all very nice, but does he know how to build a perpetual motion machine? -- Crossly the Glad-Eyed Bear ekman@netcom.com Home for the Terminally Infirm, Redwood City, California Video meliora proboque, deteriora sequor. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!psuvax1!psuvm!sml108 From: SML108@psuvm.psu.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Perot for President Message-ID: <92186.223749SML108@psuvm.psu.edu> Date: 5 Jul 92 02:37:49 GMT References: <1992Jul4.215930.8542@sbcs.sunysb.edu> Distribution: na Organization: Penn State University Lines: 11 What better a place to recruit Perot supporters than alt.alien.visitors? Mind you, I love the way he's scaring the poopoo out of certain oval office occupiers, but given that one of their jibes against Perot is that he's obsessed with weird conspiracy theories, don't you think you'd be helping him more by not posting this here? Of course if those rumors about Perot and the space alien are true, well then he's a must vote! Let's ask Gary Stollman who we should vote for! Scott Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!mips!tsoft!techie From: bbs.techie@tsoft.sf-bay.org (Robert Mc Daniel) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers! Message-ID: <2kFFNB1w165w@tsoft.sf-bay.org> Date: 5 Jul 92 06:51:48 GMT References: <4aaBNB3w164w@cellar.org> Sender: bbs@tsoft.sf-bay.org (BBS User) Organization: The TSoft BBS and Public Access Unix, +1 415 969 8238 Lines: 23 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6776 sci.skeptic:26783 alt.paranormal:5353 > > > I wonder how many more years the "flying saucers" will continue to > > > avoid unambiguous detection? And I wonder how many more years the > > > UFOlogists will be able to convince themselves that there's really > > > something "out there" to be proven? > > > > so you are one of those who DENY the existence of extraterrestrial > > intelligence? > > > > --- > Could you please explain this strange leap of logic you've made? > Since when does doubt about flying saucers equate with disbelief of > extraterrestrial intelligence? It seems perfectly reasonable that somecould > could accept that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe, and > doubt that they've been visiting this particular planet. > > You seem to have made a small error in your reasoning. Please correct > it. I wholeheartedly concur. I happen to hold that opinion.... -- Robert Mc Daniel (bbs.techie@tsoft.sf-bay.org) Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Dulce Report - Part 2 Message-ID: <138994.2A566EB3@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 5 Jul 92 03:20:07 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - > An Overview Re: Dulce The Town of Dulce, is located in northern New Mexico near the southern border of Colorado. Dulce is located eighty-three miles northeast of Farmington, New Mexico on U.S. Route 64. See Map Exhibit 1. It has a population of 1,648 and is nestled in a valley. Just to the north and overlooking the town is the large Archuleta Mesa. The town is at an altitude of 6,825 feet above sea level. The main income producing activity in the area is cattle ranching. The business and service activities are typical of those needed in a community of this size. There are no military or industrial activities, large or small, in the area. See Photo Exhibits 4 and 5. In order to present the results of our investigation it is necessary to refer to items of information, widely available to UFO researchers, concerning the Dulce, U.S.\Alien base. In the following, we will quote from those items of information. We will attempt to identify the source whenever possible. This will be followed by our findings. The Investigation 1) Source Information Excerpts: Dulce Papers.Txt Author Unknown ...A joint US/EBE facility exists beneath the Archuleta Mesa near the town of DULCE NEW MEXICO. (1A) This facility has been in existence in one form or another since 1948. (1B) ...The facility proper is located one kilometer underground. (1C) The base is approximately 2.5 miles northwest of Dulce, and almost overlooks the town. (1D) There is a paved government road 36 feet wide going into the area. * * * Findings of Phoenix Project Investigation (PHX) regarding the foregoing: (PHX-1A) No substantiating County records confirm this. Local residents have no memory of any government installation, civilian or military ever having existed in this area. (PHX-1B) Same as 1A. There is no record or memory of any underground heavy construction, excavation, or mining activity in the area. (PHX-1C) See Map Exhibit 3. (PHX-1D) See Map Exhibits 2 and 3, and Photo Exhibits 6 and 7. The road in question is Indian Reservation Road # J-2. It has never been labeled a "government" road. This road is not paved, as described in the source material. It is a narrow, two lane dirt road (barely twenty (20) feet wide that is completely open for public use. * * * 2) Source Information Excerpts: 1988 Krill2.Txt ...During the occupation of the Greys, they have established quite a number of underground bases all over the world, especially in the United States. (2A) One such base (among others in the same state) is under Archuleta Mesa, which is about 2.5 miles northwest of Dulce, New Mexico. The foregoing extract is from a transcript of a conversation between Jim McCampbell and Dr. Paul Bennewitz on July 13, 1984. * * * Findings: (PHX-2A) This refers to the previously mentioned Indian Reservation Road # J-2. The road at this point is at the base of the Archuleta Mesa. See Map Exhibit 3 and Photo Exhibit 7. * * * 3) Source Information Excerpts: 1988 Krill2.Txt (3A) ...Bennewitz reports he was able to determine the location of the underground facility: a kilometer underground beneath Archuleta Mesa on the Jicarilla Apache Indian Reservation near Dulce, New Mexico (since 1976, one of the areas of the U.S. hardest hit by mutilations). (3B) Bennewitz' information is that this installation is operated jointly as part of an on-going program of cooperation between the U.S. government and the EBEs. -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Dulce Report Message-ID: <138993.2A566EB0@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 5 Jul 92 03:20:06 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Dulce Report - Part 3 Message-ID: <138995.2A566EB6@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 5 Jul 92 03:21:08 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - > Back to the base under discussion. After Bennewitz briefed Air Force officials on what he had found, a trip to the area revealed the following data: (3C) The base is 2.5 miles northwest of Dulce, and almost overlooks the town. (3D) There is a level highway 36 feet wide going into the area. It is a government road. (3E) One can see telemetry trailers and buildings that are five-sided with a dome. Next to the domes, a black limousine was noted -- a CIA vehicle. (3F) These limos will run you off the road if you try to get into the area. (3G) To the north there is a launch site. (3H) There are two wrecked ships there; they are 36 feet long with wings, and one can see oxygen and hydrogen tanks. The ships that we got out of the trade are atomic-powered with plutonium pellets. Refueling of the plutonium is accomplished at Los Alamos. (3I) The base has been there since 1948. Some of the disks are piloted by the NSA. (3J) The base is 4,000 feet long (3K) and helicopters are going in and out of there all the time. When it became known that Bennewitz was familiar with this, the mutilations in the area stopped. (3L) In 1979, something happened and the base was temporarily closed. There was an argument over weapons and our people were chased out. The aliens killed 66 of our people, and 44 got away. One of the people who in fact got away was a CIA agent who, before leaving, made some notes, photos, and videotapes, and went into hiding. He has been in hiding ever since, and every six months he contacts each of five people he left copies of the material with. His instructions were that if he missed four successive contacts, the people could do whatever they want with the material and was received in December, 1987, by many researchers. The "Dulce Papers" were composed of 25 black and white photos, a videotape with no dialogue and a set of papers that included technical information regarding the jointly occupied (U.S.-Alien) facility one kilometer beneath the Archuleta Mesa near Dulce, New Mexico. (3M) The facility still exists and is currently operational. * * * Findings: (PHX-3A) Refer to (PHX-1A & 1B. (PHX-3B) Refer to (PHX-1A & 1B). There are no records, nor is there any physical evidence to substantiate this allegation. (PHX-3C) The elevation at the location described, where Reservation Road J-2 crosses the Navajo River, is not high enough to overlook the Town of Dulce. The road is not level and it is not 36-feet wide. See Map Exhibit 2. (PHX-3D) See (PHX-1D). The road is not level and it is not 36- feet wide. It is a narrow dirt road that climbs, slowly, with many curves, around the base of Archuleta Mesa. See Photo Exhibit 7. (PHX-3E) Local residents and County highway maintenance crews have no memory of any such trailers, buildings, domes or limousines in this area. Physical investigation reveals there is no area where such structures ever existed. (PHX-3F) The Rio Arriba County Sheriff's Office has no record of any reports, ever, having been filed by motorists forced off the road by "any" type vehicle. As mentioned previously, this is a Reservation Road used by the Indians, ranchers and the general public. If any occurrences, such as those described ever occurred, it would have been the "talk-of-the-town." No residents interviewed, remember any such events. (PHX-3G) Physical investigation, on foot, failed to reveal any evidence of a "launch" site at the location described. (PHX-3H) There are no physical indications of any kind, and there are no cleared areas of sufficient size to provide space for two crashed ships or the oxygen and fuel tanks described. This includes both sides of the road, all the way around the mesa. See Map Exhibit 3. (PHX-3I) There are no indications of any such facilities. No one remembers any such facilities. Such facilities are not there today. (PHX-3J) A complete examination of the area and the top of the mesa show no evidence of any 4000 foot long cleared area. If such ever existed, scars in the landscape would still be present. See Map Exhibit 3. (PHX-3K) Physical examination does not reveal past or present helicopter landing pads anywhere in the area. Local residents do not remember any extensive helicopter activity, of any kind, in the area. (PHX-3L) There is no record or local memory of any military presence, garrison, or troop movements, past or present, in the Dulce area. Since there is only one major highway into and out of Dulce, the presence of any military truck convoys or ambulances would not have gone unoticed by the local residents. And, as mentioned previously, there has never been any major helicopter activity that could have brought in airborne troops. -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!crdgw1!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Dulce Report - Part 4 Message-ID: <138996.2A566EB9@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 5 Jul 92 03:21:09 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - >> (PHX-3M) Contrary to the statements in the Krill2 information, there is no physical indication of any installation in the Dulce area or in, around or underneath the Archuleta Mesa. Both ground and aerial surveys do not indicate any suspicious terrain features. An airborne magnetometer survey of the described areas reveal no unusual underground features that could be interpreted as a large underground base. If an underground base was located 1-KM beneath the Archuleta Mesa, and it was 3-KM wide by 8-KM long, its presence would be revealed by the magnetometer. Any underground facility of the size described would be easily detected even if it was buried 5-KM below the mesa. It would be more than obvious. It would "shout" its presence. The Magnetometer Contour Chart indicates no hidden underground facility or any unusual excavations or caverns. See Exhibit-9. * * * 4) Source Information Excerpts: PROJECT BETA BY DR. PAUL BENNEWITZ (4A)...numerous road blocks extend northward. (4B) Maintained road some thirty feet wide and servicing facilities, tanks, etc. There is also an apparent foundation for another helo pad______ (4C) human housing, and another black limousine with tracks leading to it west of the road. ...The total alien basing area apparently contains several cultures, (all under the designation 'unity') (4D) and is approx 3km wide by 8km long and is located in the middle of nowhere on the Jicarilla Indian Reservation west of Dulce, NM. ...Based on the number of ships presently in this area, the total alien population is estimated to be at least 2,000 and most likely more. ----- Logistical plans ----- ...initial logistics would indicate a plan sequentially implemented as follows: This plan does not include all requirements and preparatory safety measures to be employed by the ground force; however, if Air Force Intelligence desires to pursue the approaches suggested in this report, each significant requirement will be discussed in depth. (4E) The attack must be directed almost entirely on the ground since vehicle ignition problems will be encountered. All electrical and electronic equipment must be 'hardened' using specific techniques perfected prior to implementation. This information has been checked by interaction and eavesdropping on their communication channels _______as far as weaknesses are concerned. The program would be instigated in phases: (4F) 1) The first procedure would be to close the gates of the dam above the Navajo River. This dam could be held closed for the duration. Internal to the one cave, there is a small dam for water storage. Its capacity is small. (4G) There is also a discharge outlet downstream that could be closed, causing waste water to back up into the caves. The water is vacuum pumped apparently by some electrostatic means from the river. (4H) There is a water intake and dam upstream that can be totally cut off and the water re-routed to Chama, New Mexico. * * * Findings: (PHX-4A) There are no roadblocks on any roads in the Dulce Area. See Photo Exhibit 7, of Reservation Road # J-2. There are no roadblocks present. According to County Maintenance Crews, the only time Road J-2 was blocked was years ago when it was "washed- out" by heavy rains in the area. (PHX-4B) Reservation Road # J-2, 2.5 miles northwest of Dulce, is a narrow, winding, dirt road. It does not match the description in the source information. (PHX-4C) No such facilities exist. No one ever remembers the existence of any such facilities. (PHX-4D) Investigations on foot, by vehicle, and by aerial survey, show no evidence of secret entrances to any facility or a base as large as the one described in the source information. (PHX-4E) An Electro-Magnetic "spectrum sweep" of the Archuleta Mesa and the Town of Dulce, revealed no unusual electromagnetic disturbances. The entire area was surveyed by a "Total Field" Magnetometer. No unusual magnetic disturbances were recorded. (PHX-4F) There are no records of any "Dams" on the Navajo River anywhere near the Dulce area or north of the Archuleta Mesa. The "Dam" described in the source information does not exist. (PHX-4G) An "on-foot" survey of the Navajo River did not reveal the existence of any "discharge outlets" downstream. There is no evidence of any caves. The Indians interviewed did not know of any caves, along the river, as described in the source information. -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Dulce Report - Conclusion Message-ID: <138997.2A566EBC@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 5 Jul 92 03:21:10 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - >>> (PHX-4H) There is no "water intake" or "dam" upstream on the Navajo River. The lack of any "dams" can be verified by consulting any topographical or aeronautical charts of the area. Re-routing the Navajo River, by damming it, to Chama, New Mexico, as described by Bennewitz, would be a miraculous feat. Chama, New Mexico is at an elevation of 8,025 feet above sea level, as indicated by Aeronautical Chart # 45 dated July 25, 1991. Also noted, on this same chart, is the elevation of Dulce as 6,800 feet above sea level. It would be a natural impossibility to have the water of the Navajo River re-routed to Chama, as the water would have flow up-hill over the Continental Divide that separates the two towns. The mountainous terrain ranges from 9,025 to 9,916 feet above sea level with no obvious gravitational advantages between the two towns. Such an effort would require the installation on a monster pipeline and pumping station to accomplish this. No such pipeline or pumping station has ever been built in this area. * * * 5) Source Information Excerpt Thisisit.Txt Wm. C. Cooper ...The alien underground base is located beneath an indian reservation near the small town of Dulce, New Mexico... * * * Findings: All of the previous "Findings" apply to this source information. * * * CONCLUSIONS: Information from many sources regarding the existence of an alleged U.S.\Alien Base at Dulce, New Mexico, does not agree with the facts obtained by the investigation carried out by The Phoenix Project. It would appear that the information describing this alleged U.S./Alien Base and the numerous facilities associated with it, is entirely false. This would indicate deliberate disinformation supplied to UFO investigators and all those interested in UFO research. It seems that this disinformation is designed to mis-lead and mis-direct serious researchers away from the truth. It seems incredible that serious UFO researchers and the UFO Movement, in general, could accept the information regarding a large U.S.\Alien Base near Dulce, without making a detailed and complete investigation. The facts revealed by the Phoenix Project investigation do not support the presence of a joint U.S.\Alien base near Dulce -- and it is not in, around, or under the Archuleta Mesa. Perhaps there is a such a base somewhere else on the Jicarilla Indian Reservation, but if that is true, it seems strange that the Apaches, the local residents and the proper local authorities have no knowledge of its presence or that such a base ever existed. From a practical stand-point, a base as large as the one described in the information supplied by the sources quoted, along with a staff of 2000 aliens and their human co-workers, would need to meet certain logistical requirements. Any sizeable joint U.S.\Alien base, located anywhere, would need to meet the same requirements. 1. The presence of a large, highly technical, human work-force. 2. Support facilities for such a human work-force, i.e., housing, medical, recreational, service and shopping, and service support facilities. 3. There would obviously be work-shifts with workers coming and going at certain hours. None of this activity could be totally concealed. This activity would be recognized by other people in the area. 4. Such a base would require operating supplies which would require incoming freight shipments. Delivering such supplies would require delivery trucks or some form of air transport. Such activity, on a regular basis, would not go un-noticed by local residents. 5. If such a base existed, above ground or underground, there would need to be security guards, fenced or controlled areas and regular perimeter patrols. A relationship with local law enforcement officials would be required. The presence of such security forces and patrols would not go un-noticed by residents in the area. 6. Local authorities, i.e., city, county, and law enforcement, would know if such a base or facility existed in their area. Please note. None of the foregoing criteria exist, or have existed, in or around the Town of Dulce or anywhere on the Jicarilla Apache Indian Reservation. Nor do they exist in any other "remote areas" where there are suspected U.S. or joint U.S\Alien bases. Thus, one can only conclude that such bases cannot remain "hidden" in remote areas. Someone will always know or remember that something strange is going-on in any remote area. Where then, should one look for such bases? The answer should be obvious. Such bases must meet the requirements outlined previously. They are located in known areas which meet all the logistical requirements. There are any number of government or military installations in New Mexico that easily meet such requirements. However, gaining entry to such facilities, to prove that such a base exists, would prove difficult if not impossible to any civilian researcher without the proper credentials, security clearances and a "need-to-know." The following pages contain the maps, photographs and scientific exhibits associated with this Report. Signed, The Phoenix Project END OF FILE PARANET FILENAME: DULCEDOC.TXT -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!ParaNet(sm).Information.Service From: ParaNet.Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (sm) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: K2 - Suspected Alien Base Discovery Message-ID: <139009.2A56875B@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 5 Jul 92 05:12:08 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - -- ParaNet(sm) Information Service - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: ParaNet(sm).Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!ParaNet(sm).Information.Service From: ParaNet.Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (sm) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: K2 Report - Part 2 Message-ID: <139010.2A56875F@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 5 Jul 92 05:12:09 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - The aliens have indulged in the same duplicity. Saying one thing to the super-powers, to create an appetite for superior technology, while carrying out their own covert activities against humanity. They have created wellidden bases of their own. Bases that allow them to continue their covert operations without government interference or scrutiny. Bases unknown to the various world governments. It would be untrue to say that the U.S. Government doesn't suspect the existence of hidden alien bases. However, to date, they have had shown little success in locating them. It is not the intention or purpose of the Phoenix Project to judge the government's actions or the actions of those responsible and involved in the UFO coverup activity. Our efforts are not part of a vindictive crusade against the government. In our opinion, the public has a right to know the facts and information revealed by our investigations. If this proves to be an embarrassment to those responsible for concealing such information, they have only themselves to blame. Our efforts may help wiser heads in the government and elsewhere, to realize that the aliens have hidden objectives of their own. Objectives they have not made known to the government and humanity. Wiser heads may also realize that Washington, Langley and Fort Meade do not have exclusive possession of that called "intelligence" or intelligence data. Perhaps they will finally recognize that "others" are able to obtain, correlate and evaluate important information on their own. A rational person might realize the value and importance of cooperation with, rather than antagonism against, others who possess valuable information. The objective of the Phoenix Project in making this report public is to accomplish the following: 1) To reveal to the U.S. Government, civilian UFO investigators and the public, the existence and location of a hidden alien base. It will also become known that the aliens have used, and are continuing to use, without their knowledge or consent, personnel of the U.S. Forest Service to help conceal the presence of this base. Details concerning this are included in the updated information supplement in the Exhibit Section of this report. 2) Revealing the location of this base will render it useless to the aliens. This will severely impact part of their covert activity against humanity. 3) To reveal one aspect of the alien threat to the public. HOW THE INVESTIGATION BEGAN AND THE ALIEN BASE WAS DISCOVERED The Phoenix Project investigation into this matter began in early June of 1989. Our Staff Member # 2, then, overheard a strange short-wave radio transmission that aroused his interest. Every night, for two weeks, he monitored this unique radio transmission. Then, using radio direction-finding equipment, he was able to locate the source of the transmission. By using triangulation techniques he found the signal was coming from an area some forty miles northeast of his location. On June 10, 1989, he recorded the strange radio transmission. The broadcast signal lasted nearly an hour. The recording was sent to the Project's Headquarters for further analysis. Our analysis of the recording caused the Project to launch a major investigation into this matter. As a side project, our Staff decided to "test" the current degree of government secrecy regarding UFO research. We created a test. THE TEST Our staff contacted Dr. Peter Sturrock at Stanford Research Institute in Palo Alto, California. Dr. Sturrock enjoys a quiet reputation of being a "concerned" and reliable UFO Researcher. We requested that he conduct a further study and analysis of the recording. Dr. Sturrock was very interested and cooperative -- at first. However, very quickly, his attitude changed. Within a week, and acting very reserved and guarded, he phoned us stating he couldn't have anything further to do with this matter and that Stanford Research could not analyze the recording. No further explanation was offered. He suggested we take the recording to Dr. James Harder at NASA's Ames Research Center in Mountain View, California. We thanked Dr. Sturrock for his initial interest and expressed our regrets that he was unable to pursue the matter further. In the next day's mail, we received the recording and our analysis notes from Dr. Sturrock. A courier delivered the recording to NASA's Dr. Harder, in person, the following day. A week later we called to ask how the analysis was progressing. Dr. Harder was not available when we phoned, but his secretary could not recall having received any recording from us. Therefore, there was nothing to analyze and they were unable to assist us further. The tone of the conversation was abrupt and had the ring of an obvious dismissal. Fortunately, the "lost" recording was a copy and not the original. It was becoming very obvious that Dr. Sturrock and Stanford Research, and that Dr. Harder and NASA, were not going to reveal what their analysis of the recording revealed. Again, the official research community had failed our "test." It was time to move on. -- ParaNet(sm) Information Service - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: ParaNet(sm).Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!ParaNet(sm).Information.Service From: ParaNet.Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (sm) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: K2 Report - Part 3 Message-ID: <139011.2A568762@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 5 Jul 92 05:12:10 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - > Meanwhile, the Project's Staff decided to investigate the location thought to be the source of the strange radio transmission. On June 15, 1989, a Phoenix Project Survey Team made a preliminary investigation to locate the site and origin of the mysterious radio transmission. The site was located and a preliminary investigation was completed. A second site survey and more detailed investigation was conducted on June 28, 1989. The results of this second survey prompted the need for an in-depth scientific survey and investigation of the site. On July 19, 1989, the third survey was launched. A well-equipped science and investigative team arrived at the K-2 Site for a three-day effort. For security reasons, at the time, the Phoenix Project assigned the code name "K-2" to the site area and the investigative effort. The results of all three site surveys and the results of the investigation, were compiled the following week. The following report reveals the details of that investigation. Date of original report: July 28, 1989 Revised for updated information: June 22, 1992 K-2 -- A SPECIAL REPORT A SUMMARY OF FINDINGS GENERAL DESCRIPTION K-2 is the Phoenix Project code name for a specific geographical site in Northern California. It has been determined, by investigation, that this site is the location of a previously unknown and undiscovered extra-terrestrial (alien) installation and base of operations. To date, the U.S. Government and its various intelligence agencies has given no indication that they are aware of the existence of the K-2 Alien Base or its location. It is also unknown to the general public and to leading UFO researchers. This report is the first time its existence has been revealed. Alien spacecraft seen arriving and departing from this base, and the small, grey, alien creatures seen at this location, lead to the inescapable conclusion that this base was built by, and is operated by, an alien race from the star system Zeta Reticuli. This race, known in covert government and select public circles, and to UFO researchers, has been named the Greys. CONCEALMENT FEATURES The site of this secret alien base is within the Plumas National Forest. The base is well-concealed and hidden underground, inside a "land-mark" mountain -ilot Peak, in northern California. This site is located in Plumas County, on a remote and isolated stretch of county road between the towns of La Porte and Quincy. See Exhibit 1. The site is isolated and cut-off from general access, except from the air or the use of snowmobiles, or ski's, 6 months of the year because of heavy snow conditions. A well constructed and permanent "fire" lookout tower on top of Pilot Peak (K-2) was suddenly abandoned several years ago. Discussions with local U.S. Forest Rangers, indicate there are no intentions of ever manning or re-activating the fire lookout station. Budgetary problems were not a factor. The explanation given, was that the lookout was obsolete. Fire spotting, these days, according to the rangers, is better accomplished by patrolling aircraft. This explanation, (in 1989) seems suspect and insubstantial, at best. Evidence to support these claims are provided by the fact that other fire lookout stations, in nearby areas, are operational and manned throughout the peak summer fire season. Why is the K-2 fire lookout an exception? An outstanding "air approach corridor," provides incoming and outgoing alien spacecraft with exceptional concealment. The "air corridor" leading to and from this hidden base is, somehow, not covered by either military or civilian radar or air traffic control. This has been verified by examination of aeronautical charts of the area. Terrain features, also, provide excellent concealment from visual observation. See Exhibit 2. TERRAIN FEATURES OF THE SITE: The main area of the Alien base is a "U" shaped bowl cradled at the northern end and at the foot of Pilot Peak and its associated mountain ridges. The site is protected on three sides by 400 to 600 foot mountain ridges. Two, level terrain, landing zones 200 to 300 feet in diameter are present. Well concealed and expertly camouflaged entrances to the Alien base are located near each of the landing zones. See Exhibit 3. High mountains and deep valleys, leading to and from the open mouth of the "U" shaped site, provides a 20 mile approach and departure corridor that is secure from ground-based radar, civil or military. The deep valley and canyons also prevent visual observation of low-flying spacecraft. Visual observation from high-flying military or civilian jet traffic is not likely, as the site is not on or near an established air traffic route. See Exhibit 17. -- ParaNet(sm) Information Service - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: ParaNet(sm).Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!ParaNet(sm).Information.Service From: ParaNet.Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (sm) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: K2 Report - Part 4 Message-ID: <139012.2A568765@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 5 Jul 92 05:12:11 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - >> LANDING SITE EVIDENCE There are some physical indications present at both landing sites, Landing Zone 1 and 2 (indentations in the ground, large circular areas of flattened native grass, and small amounts of residual radio-active radiation). Most striking, however, is the fact that there is an unusual absence of animal or rodent presence. There are no animals; animal tracks, rodents, snakes, ground squirrels or chipmunks present in or around the landing sites. However, these creatures are present everywhere else in the area. Birds, also present elsewhere, seem to avoid flying over or through the landing areas. Insect life, particularly flying insects -- deer flies, common flies and mosquitoes, are present everywhere. Other researchers have established the fact that the lack of animal or rodent presence in UFO landing areas is significant. AREA NEAR CONCEALED BASE To the casual observer visiting the K-2 site, everything would appear quite normal. The area seems peaceful and serene. However, in the general area of the concealed Alien base, to an experienced observer, it suggests and entirely different picture. The area is too tranquil and perfect, both in appearance and in the general atmosphere of the place. The term "picture perfect" is appropriate. This setting is completely unrealistic and paradoxical when compared with other areas a mere half-mile away. SURVEY PARTY OBSERVATIONS On three occasions (in 1989) trained investigators of the Phoenix Project have visited and investigated the K-2 site. They have all experienced and observed unusual phenomena and conditions in the area. 1) An uncanny stillness (the absence of normal sounds) during the day. This was even more evident during the hours of darkness. No animal sounds. No owls hooting. No birds chirping. No cries from coyotes. The absence of these normal sounds in the area was unsettling. This phenomenon has been observed on every visit to this site. 2) All the investigators experienced independent and unprompted feelings of being observed by unseen watchers. This was particularly evident on the first visit to the site. Each member of the survey party, independently, and with no solicitation or prompting from each other, reported, afterwards, strong feelings of being watched and frequently they turned around to look behind them. However, no unseen watchers were discovered. This left a strong impression on the survey party. 3) On the first survey there were observations of unusual cloud behavior. Clouds that formed out of nowhere. Clouds that appeared and disappeared with sudden quickness. Thick, angry looking, grey clouds that billowed up in ominous manner, with a "boiling" and rolling end-over-end motion, that quickly enveloped the entire site area. Survey party members wondered if the atmosphere was, somehow, being controlled. All of this activity was confined to the K-2 site area. A half-mile away, in any direction, the sky was clear. 4) Observations on the first and second visits to the site, revealed that an earthen dike (erected to maintain a 6 foot water level in a large pond near the concealed secret base) had very recently, been deliberately breached over a ten foot width, dropping the pond's water level to a 6 inch depth. Shovel marks were evident in the breach area. The lack of erosion, on the sides of the breached area, indicated its recent nature. However, on the third visit this breach had been expertly repaired. There were heavy equipment tracks (a bulldozer's) in and around the dike. Earth, dug from a nearby hill, was used to repair the dike. Forest Rangers, who patrol the area several times each day, when questioned about this, were at a loss to explain the repairs. No one using heavy equipment had been observed in the area. According to the Rangers, the pond is not used for any known purpose -- yet it's there. Someone recently breached it to lower the water level. Then, someone, unknown and unobserved, repaired it. See Exhibit 15. Why the pond with no known purpose or function? Why breach it? Why repair it? Why wasn't the use of heavy equipment or the repairs, noticed by the patrolling Rangers? It should be stated that the Rangers are very observant and notice everything going on in their area, as our questions revealed. Why is K-2, this Alien base, seemingly, exempt? 5) The county road between the towns of La Porte and Quincy is a rough, poorly maintained, dirt road for some 30 miles. Rough dirt roads are prevalent throughout the area for miles in all directions. There are no towns, settlements, fishing areas, camp grounds, or anything else of significance, anywhere in the area near Pilot Peak (K-2). This site is out in the middle of nowhere. Yet -- the county road for 2-1/2 miles either side of the entrance to the K-2 site, is a modern, well maintained, black- topped, 2 lane highway. Before and after this 5 mile stretch of modern road, it is again a dirt road. Why? No one questioned by our investigators had any explanation. And, more curiously, no one seemed the least bit curious about it. Why? Refer to Exhibits 1 and 3. -- ParaNet(sm) Information Service - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: ParaNet(sm).Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!ParaNet(sm).Information.Service From: ParaNet.Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (sm) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: K2 Report - Part 5 Message-ID: <139013.2A568768@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 5 Jul 92 05:12:12 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - >>> 6) There is a rough, hard-packed, dirt road leading to K-2 from the town of La Porte. It is a narrow 2 lane road. It is not frequently traveled. On the third visit to the K-2 site, extraordinary logging activity, by "two" major logging companies, were evident. Only the trees within 20 feet on either side of this dirt road are being cut and hauled to sawmills. When questioned, the loggers were uncommunicative regarding this activity. However, there is every reason to believe, from the nature of this activity, that this road is going to be widened and improved. Possibly, even black-topped. One must remember that this road is an obscure county road that is infrequently used. It provides a secondary connection between the two towns of La Porte and Quincy, some thirty miles apart. Why the activity to widen and improve it? Why improve a road that is hardly used by the general public? It must be remembered that all these secondary county roads are totally impassible, because of heavy snow, for 6 months of the year. No efforts are made during the winter to keep them open and clear. In fact, just outside of La Porte there is a heavy metal gate that is used to block the road during the winter months. Why, then, all this activity? What purpose is being served? METHODS USED TO DETERMINE THE PRESENCE, LOCATION AND SIZE OF THE ALIEN BASE Since the only way to conceal a large installation is to bury it underground, or in the depths of an ocean, out of sight, only certain types of sophisticated scientific instruments can reveal the underground presence of such an installation. Foremost among these instruments, is that known as a portable "total field" magnetometer. This instrument is widely used by professional geologists to detect the presence of valuable underground minerals, oil, and water deposits. It is also used by sophisticated archaeologists to detect the remains of ancient buried cities, caverns and other valuable sites of past civilizations. A magnetometer is a precision instrument that measures minute changes or deviations in the Earth's magnetic field within a given area. All geological features: mountains, lava beds, rivers, streams and lakes, plains, meadows and plateaus, and even grains of sand, eventually, over thousands of years, align their molecular magnetic structure with the prevailing direction of the Earth's magnetic field. Earthquakes, volcanoes and geological up- thrusts, and their resultant forces, in creating all geological formations, cause deviations in an area's basic magnetic pattern. Underground geological features such as: upthrust dikes, sheer planes, faults, mineral deposits, caverns, caves, tombs, rivers and lakes, etc., and other anomalies, leave their characteristic and recognizable magnetic signatures. In a like manner, any underground excavations, tunneling or shafts, create a deviation from the normal patterns prevalent in a given area. Such underground construction activity disturbs the local magnetic field in the area. This disturbance is caused by the material excavated or otherwise moved. The magnetometer can, by noting the strength of such deviations and disturbances, then determine the location, shape, size and depth of such buried features and anomalies. Sophisticated computer programs can then analyze the information reported by this instrument and create statistical data, charts, plots and maps, which portray the underground features of an area in amazing detail. The magnetometer, in a sense, is similar to having a form of powerful x-ray vision that is capable of looking deep within the earth. For three days starting on July 19, 1989, a portable total-field magnetometer was used by the Phoenix Project's scientific survey team to conduct a magnetic mapping of highly suspect areas of the K-2 site. The presence of our survey teams aroused intense curiosity on the part of the U.S. Forest Service and their Rangers. The first day, several different Rangers questioned us intensely. They asked us who we were, what we were doing, how long we would be in the area, where we came from, etc. We had prepared plausible answers to such questions in advance of being questioned. Our answers seemed to satisfy their initial curiosity. However, the second and third day of our presence on the site, brought the Rangers out in force. Hardly an hour would pass before a different Ranger or pair of Rangers would appear and start the questions all over again. They seemed determined to find out exactly who we were, why we were there, what we were doing, and why we were doing it, etc. Some of the Rangers stayed a while and became interested in the scientific equipment and its operation. To satisfy them, we let them assist us in taking some of the magnetometer readings. But, continuously, they tried to pump us for additional information. Each time we gave them the same answers and eventually they would leave. The on-going visits and questions eventually became a game that was amusing. However, we couldn't help but wonder what was driving their curiosity and why they continued the constant barrage of questions. See Exhibit 21. -- ParaNet(sm) Information Service - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: ParaNet(sm).Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!ParaNet(sm).Information.Service From: ParaNet.Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (sm) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: K2 Report - Conclusion Message-ID: <139015.2A56876E@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 5 Jul 92 05:13:14 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - >>>>> * * * Report # 3 By Staff # 2: Date: August 11, 1989, Time: 1500 PDT Location: K-2 Following the events of the night before, I made a quick trip to check out the K-2 area. Observation: There was a "burned" or scorched area on the ground, 30 feet in diameter, at the LZ-1 (landing zone 1) apparently, where an object had landed. In the rush to get there, I forgot to take my camera. No pictures were obtained. After further checking out the area, I left. I decided to return the next day with a camera to get pictures of the burn marks. * * * Report # 4 By Staff # 2: Date: August 12, 1989, Time: 1300 PDT Location: K-2 Observation: Another quick trip to K-2 -- this time with the camera. "This second trip -- brought a surprise. The burned round mark on the ground wasn't there (the one I had observed the day before. The 30 foot diameter burned area). It looks like "they" (the Greys) had removed everything that would show they had landed there. I did some digging, but there was nothing to show for it. They had replaced the ground (the burned area) with new soil, including the dead grass that covers the ground. They seem to know we are on to them, and are making it difficult for us to prove anything. From now on, the camera goes with me everywhere." See Exhibits 19 and 20. Memo August 12, 1989 From Staff # 1 To: Staff # 2 Our contacts in the Air Force verify that on the night of August 10, 1989, at the time indicated in Report # 1 of that date, that eight F-4's, scrambled from Beale AFB, CA. They had a brief radar-lock, on a "bogie" in the area described. However, they lost the target, due to ground clutter when it suddenly descended into the mountainous terrain. They returned to the base when a further sweep of the area proved fruitless. You're right, the AF had a blip on their radar, but lost it when the ship dropped into that 20-mile approach corridor between the valleys and the radar dead zone. * * * Comments by Staff # 1 Date: 8/15/89, Time: 1300 PDT The events taking place, as described in the preceding reports, indicate on-going activity at the K-2 site. This activity, adds weight to the conclusions and evidence gathered by our Survey Team. Those findings were included in the "K-2, Special Report" Dated 7/28/89. These recent events taking place at K-2 validate our initial findings. * * * Comments by Staff # 1 Date: 8/29/89 Observations of night-time activity at K-2, over the past month, indicate that alien crafts are making supply runs at two week intervals. All of our attempts, on site, to photograph or video tape their arrival, unloading and departures have failed. The aliens seem to detect our presence even though we have made every effort to remain concealed. On two occasions, from our concealed location, we have observed one of their craft making a landing approach. The craft suddenly veers off, about two miles from the base, and quickly leaves the area. For both practical and economic reasons we cannot continue this surveillance. In our opinion, we have validated the existence of the base and the alien activity associated with this site. * * * ADDENDUM: 6/23/92 ADDITIONAL CONCLUSION Previously, we mentioned the extreme curiosity exhibited by U.S. Forest Rangers, and their barrage of questions while we conducted the scientific survey of K-2 in July of 1989. The reason for their conduct and questions became known in August of 1989 and during the course of subsequent investigations at K-2. Refer to Exhibit 21. As a result of the public disclosure of the Alien Base revealed in this report, it will prove most interesting to observe what action is taken by any unit of the U.S. Government to deal with this situation. It is doubtful they will allow an Alien Base to operate right under their noses. This would be an excellent occasion for the public, in large numbers, to camp out at the K-2 site, use their home video cameras to record what activity occurs and whether they are ordered to leave the area. Also, without a doubt, it is not difficult to predict a scenario in which well-paid and learned government experts will proclaim that no alien base exists at K-2. In the interim, nobody would be surprised, would they (??), if the area was suddenly fenced off by a double perimeter chain-link fence and patrolled by security guards. The public may even be denied any access to the area. Now, what would that suggest to you? It's something of a Catch-22 situation for the government. Any action taken to suppress the alien base will be revealed and noticed by the public, and any inction, hoping people will forget it, allows the aliens to continue their operations. It's a bad situation for the aliens, as well. All the publicity and people hanging around the area will disrupt their activities. Somehow, the term "poetic justice" seems correct in this situation. Perhaps you'll agree. K-2 DATA EXHIBIT PACKAGE LIST OF EXHIBITS Exhibit 1: Quincy - La Porte Area Map. Exhibit 2: Aeronautical Chart of K-2 Area detailing Military Operation Areas (MOA's) Boundaries, Radar coverage and approach corridors. Exhibit 3: Expanded Topographic Map of K-2 Site. Exhibit 4: Text - Detailed Magnetometer Data of K-2, Section 3. Exhibit 5: K2Q3S3 (Quad 3, Section 3) Magnetic Field Stats indicating section line numbers, line stations and magnetometer readings. Exhibits 6 A,B,C,D: K2Q3S3 Top View. Detailed Magnetic Profile Charts of Section 3 survey lines. Exhibit 7: K2Q3S3 High-Resolution Magnetic Contour Map of Section 3, Quad 3, indicating major underground features. Exhibit 7A: Text - Describing the hidden underground parts of the Alien base, in the area surveyed, and revealed by the Magnetometer Data. Exhibit 8: Text - K2SCARP Magnetic Data (Section 3) Re-Survey of lines 30, 40, and 50, for expanded details of Item A, line 40. Exhibit 9: K2SCARP Top View, Magnetic Profile of Lines 30, 40 and 50. Exhibit 10: K2SCARP Magnetic Contour Map showing expanded features of Item A on Lines 30, 40, and 50. Exhibit 11: Photo - of a section of the modern blackop road fronting the entrance to the K-2 Site. Exhibit 12: Photo - K-2 Site entrance road and portion of Landing Zone 1 (LZ-1). Exhibit 13: Photo - LZ-1 and the Alien Base. Exhibit 14: Photo - South end of Alien Base and LZ-2. Exhibit 15: Photo - The mysterious Dike and Pond. Exhibit 16: Photo - The Rock Scarp detailed on Line 40 of the magnetometer data. Exhibit 17: Photo - Medium view of the overall K-2 Site, landing areas and the Alien base. Exhibit 18: Photo - Long View of K-2 showing the hidden approach corridors to the site. Exhibit 19: Photo - Landing Zone 1 (LZ-1). Exhibit 20: Photo - Landing Zone 1 (LZ-1) showing landing marks. Exhibit 21: Text - Describing latest finding regarding K-2. All of the exhibits listed in this report are contained in the printed K-2 Report available from the publisher. All printed versions of the Phoenix Project Special Reports contain the exhibits referenced in the reports text. Send a self-addressed, stamped envelope to Advent Publishing Company, P.O. Box 3748, Carson City, Nevada 89702, for a list of Phoenix Project Special Reports. SPECIAL NOTE: Very recently, the Phoenix Project conducted an undercover investigation of the U.S. Forest Service Headquarters at Quincy, California. That investigation has revealed startling new information. A Special "K-2 Supplemental Report," will be issued in the near future. It will reveal this new information and contain exhibits of the evidence obtained. END OF FILE PARANET FILENAME: K2RPT.REP -- ParaNet(sm) Information Service - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: ParaNet(sm).Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!ParaNet(sm).Information.Service From: ParaNet.Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (sm) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: K2 Report - Part 6 Message-ID: <139014.2A56876B@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 5 Jul 92 05:13:13 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - >>>> This magnetic survey revealed the presence of a large metallic or metal constructed chamber of enormous size, thought to be the main alien installation or base, and other metal-lined chambers. In addition, various metalined tunnels and fused natural rock passages and tunnels, connecting various areas of the installation, and providing means to enter and exit the base were detected. Subsequent computer analysis, of the data obtained, created a highly-detailed magnetic contour map of part of this installation (the bulk of the main installation lies under an area not surveyed on this occasion, but "linking" evidence indicates its direction and location) along with various tunnels, passages and entrances. Exhibits 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10 include this scientific information. CONCLUSION (July 1989) It is the opinion of the members of the Phoenix Project's investigators and scientific survey teams, based on their personal on-site observations and in-depth study of the Pilot Peak (K-2) site, the facts revealed, interviews with USFS Rangers, and scientific analysis, that a hidden, underground, major operational base of alien beings has been discovered. This investigation and survey were conducted by highly-trained and credible individuals who uncovered -- incredible facts. A complete magnetic survey of adjacent areas, several acres in extent, would reveal the true dimensions of this installation and additional valuable details, and is to be recommended. However, the financial cost of such an extensive survey is beyond the resources available to this group of investigators. INFORMATION UPDATE Date: August 16, 1989 From: Staff # 1 Subject: Activity Reports concerning K-2 Comment from Staff # 1: Date: August 10, 1989, Time: 2215 PDT. At 2215 PDT, I received a phone call from Staff # 2 who was stationed forty miles southwest of K-2. In an excited manner, he described sighting a large glowing object that had, only minutes before, passed very near his observation point. He supplied a few details. Knowing, from experience that the Phoenix Project phones are being monitored by various government intelligence agencies, I cut the conversation short and requested that he investigate the K-2 Site the next day and send me the complete details by courier. I received the following information from Staff # 2 on August 14, 1989. * * * Report # 1: By Staff # 2: Date: August 10, 1989, Time: 2212 PDT. Location: Approximately 40 miles southwest of K-2. A brightly glowing object was observed from my location. It was approximately 30-40 feet in diameter, moving slowly from south to north at 500 feet above the tree-tops. When first sighted, the object was approaching from the South and slowing down. When opposite my observation point, it stopped in mid-air and hovered. The object was glowing with a bright white light, as it approached. When it stopped and hovered, the color changed to a bright blue light. It remained stopped for approximately 15 seconds, then it changed back to a bright white color, as it started moving slowly (10-15 mph) toward the North in the direction of K-2. Observations: The object lit up the area, quite well, when it was glowing with the white light. No sound was produced by the object. Normal animal and insect sounds, in my area, were silenced. A light breeze, present before the object appeared, disappeared. Everything became very still, as the object was approaching and while it was hovering. The Moon was still below the horizon. The sky was clear and dark, with stars clearly visible. A "scanner" radio, I was monitoring, picked up severe noise 30 seconds before, during, and while the object moved away from my location. I did not experience any electrical effects (tingling or prickly sensations) during the sighting. The sighting lasted approximately 45 seconds. There was not enough time to get a camera and take pictures. Within 10 minutes, after the object left the area, eight Air Force jet fighters (F-4s, judging from their sound and appearance) and moving very fast, went overhead traveling in the same direction the object had taken -owards the North. Four minutes later, the fighters returned, heading south. I presumed the object had been spotted by their radar. Their quick return would indicate they lost radar contact with the object. -- ParaNet(sm) Information Service - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: ParaNet(sm).Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!torn!watserv1!watdragon.waterloo.edu!watyew!jdnicoll From: jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers! Message-ID: Date: 5 Jul 92 17:14:19 GMT References: <4aaBNB3w164w@cellar.org> <2kFFNB1w165w@tsoft.sf-bay.org> Sender: news@watdragon.waterloo.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Waterloo Lines: 38 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6789 sci.skeptic:26793 alt.paranormal:5354 In article <2kFFNB1w165w@tsoft.sf-bay.org> bbs.techie@tsoft.sf-bay.org (Robert Mc Daniel) writes: >> > > I wonder how many more years the "flying saucers" will continue to >> > > avoid unambiguous detection? And I wonder how many more years the >> > > UFOlogists will be able to convince themselves that there's really >> > > something "out there" to be proven? >> > >> > so you are one of those who DENY the existence of extraterrestrial >> > intelligence? >> > >> Could you please explain this strange leap of logic you've made? >> Since when does doubt about flying saucers equate with disbelief of >> extraterrestrial intelligence? It seems perfectly reasonable that somecould >> could accept that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe, and >> doubt that they've been visiting this particular planet. >> >> You seem to have made a small error in your reasoning. Please correct >> it. > >I wholeheartedly concur. I happen to hold that opinion.... Although it is odd that we exist *if*: Interstellar travel is possible. At least one ancient industrialised culture exists in our galaxy. Industrial cultures tend to grow with time. If all three were true, I'd expect some culture in the last few billion years to have occupied those portions of the galaxy suitable for industrial exploitation, and by occupying the niche, deny it to emerging species. At 0.01 C, it only takes 10 million years to cross the galaxy and 2 pi times that to circumnavigate it. James Nicoll Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!news.weeg.uiowa.edu!zharman From: zharman@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (Raven Zachary) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Dulce...I was there. Message-ID: <1992Jul6.030814.26300@news.weeg.uiowa.edu> Date: 6 Jul 92 03:08:14 GMT Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA Lines: 11 Greetings to Skeptics and Die-Hard Conspiracy FANS alike! I spent a day in Dulce, and I can tell you that I found _NOTHING_ which seemed suspicious. I can not believe that Dulce houses anything but poor natives. ...Another crock from crooked people. Someday, we'll separate the truth from the lies. Let's stop speading lies. Dulce is Dulce. Just a small town. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!sdd.hp.com!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!ubc-cs!newsserver.sfu.ca!sfu.ca!sbuckley From: sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: Date: 6 Jul 92 03:57:37 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <61371@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@sfu.ca Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada Lines: 23 Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10585 alt.alien.visitors:6791 sci.skeptic:26811 John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Arasia: Thanks very much for sending me the information about >your group. It seems that you have many of the same mentors that >have helped me over the years such as Sananda, Michael and Saint >Germain. I remember one time I was on the sides of Mt. Shasta with >a group of light workers that Sister Thedra had called together. It >was raining where we were and snowing a few hundred feet further up >the mountain. Everone was a little late getting in place for the >session and Michael was talking through a lady. He was really chewing >out everybody for being so late. >That's all for now. >John Winston. if it was unavoidable for everyone to be a bit late, it sounds like michael was being needlessly uptight. --- Stephen Buckley / professor of proton husbandry, & sbuckley@sfu.ca / president and ceo, TrueNorthStrong&Free / vancouver chapter of the TBA: 1-800-REALITY / (the Toronto Bashing Association) Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!batcomputer!reed!henson!news.u.washington.edu!usenet.coe.montana.edu!sinc.oscs.montana.edu!imsgjraq From: imsgjraq@sinc.oscs.montana.edu (Joseph Raquepas) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: A Real Abduction Keywords: n Message-ID: <1992Jul5.224839.15578@coe.montana.edu> Date: 5 Jul 92 22:48:39 GMT References: <138972.2A54C1D5@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Sender: usenet@coe.montana.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Montana State University, Bozeman MT Lines: 10 >Now that you have had your fun, I think I hear your mother calling you. :-) > >Mike Not another person channeling my dead mother! Ahhhhhhh!! She just won't let me be! :-) jr Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!infopiz!lupine!motcsd!udc!mcdphx!ennews!anasaz!qip!billy From: billy@anasaz (Bill Moore) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Blackbird SR-71 Message-ID: <1992Jul4.070724.9978@anasaz> Date: 4 Jul 92 07:07:24 GMT References: <1992Jun25.100444.41047@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> <1992Jun25.170040.8114@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu> Organization: Anasazi, Inc. Phoenix, Az Lines: 14 In article <1992Jun25.170040.8114@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu> gorski@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu (Tom Gorski) writes: >In article <1992Jun25.100444.41047@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wellison@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes: >> >> >>>Ok, who knows when the blackbird was presented to the general public? >> I remember President Johnson holding up pictures of the SR-71 at a press conference in 1964. That's the same press conference where he showed his scar and held his beagle up by its ears (those were the days, guys). -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Moore billy%anasaz.UUCP@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (602) 395-1732 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!infopiz!lupine!motcsd!udc!mcdphx!ennews!anasaz!qip!billy From: billy@anasaz (Bill Moore) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Gary Stollman (computer hacking) Message-ID: <1992Jul4.071147.10064@anasaz> Date: 4 Jul 92 07:11:47 GMT References: Organization: Anasazi, Inc. Phoenix, Az Lines: 15 In article kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) writes: ->In article gstimp@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) writes: ->>Interesting story, Gary. You should get together with Cliff Stoll, you'd ->>make a great team. Hey, amazing.. your last names start with "Stoll"! ->>Hmm.. -> ->Isn't Gary Stollman the author of GNU EMACS? -> Yes. Unix too. -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Moore billy%anasaz.UUCP@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (602) 395-1732 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!infopiz!lupine!motcsd!udc!mcdphx!ennews!anasaz!qip!billy From: billy@anasaz (Bill Moore) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: NASA censorship! Message-ID: <1992Jul4.063119.9412@anasaz> Date: 4 Jul 92 06:31:19 GMT Organization: Anasazi, Inc. Phoenix, AZ, USA Lines: 17 I've been off sick and haven't been on this group for awhile so I apologize if this has been covered. Does anyone know why NASA is encoding the shuttle feed on Satcom 2, transponder 5? That's the "raw" uplink to NASA direct from the shuttle. Transponder 13 is still in the clear but that's the "packaged" stuff NASA puts together for the news media. Audio and video from the shuttle has been "in the clear" during every shuttle mission for years so it was really a suprise when they started this. They're using the same encoding system as CBS and ABC whcih means they're pretty serious about it. -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Moore billy%anasaz.UUCP@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (602) 395-1732 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!csd4.csd.uwm.edu!markh From: markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark William Hopkins) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers! Message-ID: <1992Jul6.112258.8246@uwm.edu> Date: 6 Jul 92 11:22:58 GMT References: <4aaBNB3w164w@cellar.org> <2kFFNB1w165w@tsoft.sf-bay.org> Sender: news@uwm.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee Lines: 9 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6796 sci.skeptic:26835 alt.paranormal:5356 In article jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes: > If all three were true, I'd expect some culture in the last few >billion years to have occupied those portions of the galaxy suitable for >industrial exploitation, and by occupying the niche, deny it to emerging >species. At 0.01 C, it only takes 10 million years to cross the galaxy >and 2 pi times that to circumnavigate it. It only takes a few seconds to cross one end of the galaxy to the other through a wormhole connecting the two ends. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Request: Mars face repost! Message-ID: <61574@cup.portal.com> Date: 6 Jul 92 13:47:55 GMT References: Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 5 You asked for a gif of the face on Mars. Someone posted one on a collection I put in called Number 5 Ley Line Collection article number 29. Maybe you can copy it, look at it and give me your opinion on it. As don't yet know how to look at a gif on my computer. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: e: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61575@cup.portal.com> Date: 6 Jul 92 13:52:26 GMT References: <168181186B.LINSCOT@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 4 Dear Steve: Thanks for the friendly flame. I warms my heart. I'll answer more later. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbfsb!cbnewsg.cb.att.com!tke From: tke@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (thomas.j.epstein) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers! Message-ID: <1992Jul6.141902.910@cbfsb.cb.att.com> Date: 6 Jul 92 14:19:02 GMT References: <2kFFNB1w165w@tsoft.sf-bay.org> <1992Jul6.112258.8246@uwm.edu> Sender: news@cbfsb.cb.att.com Organization: AT&T Lines: 31 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6799 sci.skeptic:26840 alt.paranormal:5358 In article <1992Jul6.112258.8246@uwm.edu> markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark William Hopkins) writes: >It only takes a few seconds to cross one end of the galaxy to the other through >a wormhole connecting the two ends. Made the trip often, then? Also: You can get to New York at the speed of light, provided you "beam" in, rather than drive or fly, The ancient Egyptians ran an inter-stellar filling station for the greys. Those funny-looking pointy stone structures were bill- boards which also made nifty places to keep mummies, My farie godmother can make a wormhole that connects between my clothes dryer and all of my single socks which have fled to the planet of sentient knit items, Galfrondia III; but I asked her not to, because they are happier where they are now, I'll be publishing the secret of eternal youth as soon as my friend Ponce gets back from Florida with my notebook. Darn, gotta go, the aliens at the door will NOT go away untill I've at least looked at their stupid Antaries vacation condos flyer. ______________________________________________________________________________ ---- Tom ------------------------------------- tke@cbnewsg.cb.att.com ============================================================================== Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61581@cup.portal.com> Date: 6 Jul 92 14:27:42 GMT References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61373@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 4 Dear Srnwhite: I receive your comments about Betty and Barney Rubble and will give the statement all of the consideration it deserves. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: REPOST: Mars Face .GIF Message-ID: <61578@cup.portal.com> Date: 6 Jul 92 14:14:01 GMT References: <61227@cup.portal.com> <61433@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul2.163321.21212@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1992Jul3.125530.12594@nntp.uoregon.edu> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 5 Dear Steve Leach: Thanks for the gift of the GIF. I'll try to talk about it later if I can learn how to have it be seen on my son's computer. I copied it on my hard drive. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61577@cup.portal.com> Date: 6 Jul 92 14:09:05 GMT References: <61006@cup.portal.com><61227@cup.portal.com> <61429@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul3.113748.7293@vax.oxford.ac.uk> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 3 Dear Julian Porter: I'll do my best to be more careful in how I use the word UFO. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61580@cup.portal.com> Date: 6 Jul 92 14:23:15 GMT References: <61259@cup.portal.com> <61433@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 8 Dear Mr. Robert Sheaffer: I consider it an honor to be flamed by the greatest of flamers. In my E=mail I got one person who stated that he or she didn't want me to mention his or her name because he or she didn't want you or people of your type to get after her or him. So if that is your purpose (that is keeping down people who have ideas other than your own) then keep up the good work. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61582@cup.portal.com> Date: 6 Jul 92 14:38:04 GMT References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61373@cup.portal.com> <61430@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul2.171505.9400@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 8 Dear Tom R. It is unfortunate that you don't comprehend the forth dimension. It might be good if you listen to the words of the song The Age of Aquaris by the singing group called the Fifth Dimension. I believe they once sang it at a superbowl football game. I would answer your question to the best of my of my ability if I thought you were the least bit serious. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61576@cup.portal.com> Date: 6 Jul 92 14:06:32 GMT References: <61006@cup.portal.com><61227@cup.portal.com> <61429@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul3.113748.7293@vax.oxford.ac.uk> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 9 Dear Julian Porter: You seem to have a problem believing that people are on Earth from Venus. One of the people that I met from Venus was about 28 years old she had been brought here when she was 2 years old and raised by foster parents on Earth. She was married to a man from Hawaii and she had her son (who was about 12 months) in her arms. She didn't want me to put her name in a book I was writing at the time. That's all folks. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61583@cup.portal.com> Date: 6 Jul 92 14:45:19 GMT References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61227@cup.portal.com> <61433@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul2.163321.21212@odin.corp.sgi.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 8 Dear Rod: Thanks for the flame. It just adds to the total movement. Yes the truth is out. I would love to be the cousin of Gary Stollman. While I was away from the computer for a few months a person brought me the most interesting things posted of the Newnet and one of the articles was about and by Gary Stollman. You may say what you like ahout him but he is interesting. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61584@cup.portal.com> Date: 6 Jul 92 14:54:34 GMT References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61227@cup.portal.com> <61259@cup.portal.com> <1992Jun30.142119.7191@vax.oxford.ac.uk> <61429@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 9 I have received through E=mail the addrees of the group called CAUS from Murray from New Zealand. It is; CAUS P.O. Box 218 Coventry, Ct. 86238, USA. They are a group I heard about before on the Newsnet who print stories about UFOs and other things and they will print your story. That's all folks. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <61586@cup.portal.com> Date: 6 Jul 92 15:07:37 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 11 Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10597 alt.alien.visitors:6808 sci.skeptic:26844 Dear Arasis: I was in the town of Mt. Shasta City at 9:00 P.M. July the 4th watching the fire works. At 9:20 P.M. I remembered about your group activity and pointed my flashlight over towards Mt. Shasta (the mountain itself). I blinked the light on and off and someone or something (I don't know for sure what) was blinking back. I sent the people inside the mountain and the space people a telepathic thought that we love them and want to work with them for the good of the Earth and everything else. So, thanks to you Arasis for your suggestion that we do this. That's all folks. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: REQUEST: Roswell information; and how to get more Message-ID: Date: 6 Jul 92 15:17:41 GMT References: <20JUN199221455246@zeus.tamu.edu> <61434@cup.portal.com> Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 18 John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: Would you be so kind as to put down the mailing address of CAUS. .... this address is from "Clear Intent", so it might be old, but here it is: CAUS c/o Mr. Lawrence Fawcett 471 Goose Lane Coventry, Connecticut 06238 .... CAUS puts out a newsletter, "Just Cause" (a neat 3-way pun, that), but I don't know its publishing schedule or cost. Hope this helps, Charles Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!olivea!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: e: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61587@cup.portal.com> Date: 6 Jul 92 15:22:57 GMT References: <168181186B.LINSCOT@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 11 Dear Steve: I now have a little more time to answer you. I know your just pulling my chain but due to the fact that your started a new collection about this subject I give it the old college try to shed some light on subject. Venus is most of the things our scientist think it is in the third dimensionsl physical form. It's hot. Now if your had the ability to perform astral projection then you could got there in one of your many bodies. Your could go there is the fourth dimension and see it in that way and things look much better. Tuesday Lobsang Rampa has a lot of books out that explain astral projection is a very good way. That's all for now. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Bush reads tabloid story re aliens Message-ID: <61588@cup.portal.com> Date: 6 Jul 92 15:33:09 GMT References: <1992Jul4.222222.18144@agora.uucp> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 7 I wouldn't put much confidence in this story. It is a good way to sell a few papers and people do get a laugh out of it. Some of the stories in the Weekly World do have a grain of truth in them in my humble opinion. To separate the truth from the fun is sometimes a difficult matter. That's all folks. John Winton. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Need for an alien welcome Message-ID: <61589@cup.portal.com> Date: 6 Jul 92 15:38:50 GMT References: <1992Jul3.011325.22939@ccsd.uts.EDU.AU> <1992Jul3.022251.593@ccsd.uts.EDU.AU> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 4 Dear Manuel: Please be so kind to repost your article. Nothing came our about your idea to Need For An Alien Welcome. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!bronze!indyvax.iupui.edu!harvey From: harvey@indyvax.iupui.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Gary Stollman (computer hacking) Message-ID: <1992Jul6.104516.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> Date: 6 Jul 92 15:45:16 GMT References: <1992Jul4.071147.10064@anasaz> Sender: news@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Indiana University Lines: 17 Nntp-Posting-Host: indyvax.iupui.edu In article <1992Jul4.071147.10064@anasaz>, billy@anasaz (Bill Moore) writes: > In article kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) writes: > ->In article gstimp@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) writes: > ->>Interesting story, Gary. You should get together with Cliff Stoll, you'd > ->>make a great team. Hey, amazing.. your last names start with "Stoll"! > ->>Hmm.. > -> > ->Isn't Gary Stollman the author of GNU EMACS? > -> > Yes. Unix too. No no, it was a Unix _clone_. To avoid legal problems he called it "GNU", meaning, of course, "Gary's Not Unix" (as for his clone - now that's another matter entirely ;-) -- James Harvey harvey@iupui.edu uucp: iugate!harvey bitnet: harvey@indyvax Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!ames!purdue!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!en.ecn.purdue.edu!lush From: lush@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Gregory B Lush) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Wormholes: was Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers! Message-ID: <1992Jul6.152510.28202@en.ecn.purdue.edu> Date: 6 Jul 92 15:25:10 GMT References: <1992Jul6.112258.8246@uwm.edu> <1992Jul6.141902.910@cbfsb.cb.att.com> Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network Lines: 11 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6814 sci.skeptic:26849 alt.paranormal:5359 In article <1992Jul6.141902.910@cbfsb.cb.att.com> tke@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (thomas.j.epstein) writes: > > You can get to New York at the speed of light > > ---- Tom ------------------------------------- tke@cbnewsg.cb.att.com > It wasn't the trip that killed him, it was the sudden stop at the end. Greg Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Dulce Report - Conclusion Message-ID: <61591@cup.portal.com> Date: 6 Jul 92 16:05:07 GMT References: <138997.2A566EBC@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 7 Dear Michael: I read all of the information that you posted and appreciated your work and the work of the The Phoenix Report but I don't believe it. It doesn't add up to me and I won't explain why. Your may be right and I'm wrong. I hope I am wrong in this case. That's all folks. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: K2 - Suspected Alien Base Discovery Message-ID: <61592@cup.portal.com> Date: 6 Jul 92 16:16:29 GMT References: <139009.2A56875B@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 4 The people in the dis=information group have surely succeeded in confusing me. lhat's all folks. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!stepsun.uni-kl.de!sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de!efes.physik.uni-kl.de!kring From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Nasa Video & Occam's Razor Message-ID: <1992Jul6.162137.19081@rhrk.uni-kl.de> Date: 6 Jul 92 16:21:37 GMT References: <138950.2A53CF08@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Sender: news@rhrk.uni-kl.de Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany Lines: 21 In article <138950.2A53CF08@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>, Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) writes: >As I would ask on the "not-so-skeptic" >side is the same thing I would ask of the "skeptic" side, and that is: prove >that it is ice/not ice. What are the elements of evidence on both sides? As long as there is no evidence for either side and, more important, no evidence *against* either side, one should assume that it was something already known to exist (such as ice), as Occam's Razor (the one in the Subject line) states. Only when evidence to the contrary is presented, the alien hypothesis gets interesting. Evidence for ice is not necessary; ice is default. If there is evidence for that, fine. If not, it was still *probably* ice. You seem to assume that both hypotheses are equally valid but they are not. The alien hypothesis is more expensive (more assumptions). -- -Caddy--(thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany)----- Hey, I found a new witty saying for my .sig! Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!rpi!batcomputer!reed!henson!news.u.washington.edu!usenet.coe.montana.edu!banach.oscs.montana.edu!imsgjraq From: imsgjraq@banach.oscs.montana.edu (Joseph Raquepas) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Perot and friend Keywords: alien, nudism Message-ID: <1992Jul6.165943.4189@coe.montana.edu> Date: 6 Jul 92 16:59:43 GMT Sender: usenet@coe.montana.edu (USENET News System) Distribution: na Organization: Montana State University, College of Engineering Lines: 8 While in the local 7-11 I saw a copy of the Weekly World News. Sure enough that little alien is buck naked! He appears to be telling Perot something humorous. The rumor among convenience store cashiers is that he's saying, "Hey, you think I look funny in the buff--- imagine Barbara Bush." jr Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!wupost!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: Date: 6 Jul 92 17:19:11 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <61586@cup.portal.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 23 Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10599 alt.alien.visitors:6819 sci.skeptic:26867 In article <61586@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Arasis: >I was in the town of Mt. Shasta City at 9:00 P.M. July the 4th watching >the fire works. At 9:20 P.M. I remembered about your group activity and >pointed my flashlight over towards Mt. Shasta (the mountain itself). I >blinked the light on and off and someone or something (I don't know for >sure what) was blinking back. If I read this right, I bet the people on Mt. Shasta thought they had contacted ET's as well. Now we have 2 sightings, I guess that verifies it. :^) > I sent the people inside the mountain and >the space people a telepathic thought that we love them and want to work >with them for the good of the Earth and everything else. So, thanks to you >Arasis for your suggestion that we do this. >That's all folks. >John Winston. Rich payner@netcom.com Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: Date: 6 Jul 92 17:31:21 GMT References: <61433@cup.portal.com> <61580@cup.portal.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 21 In article <61580@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Mr. Robert Sheaffer: >I consider it an honor to be flamed by the greatest of flamers. In my Having read and enjoyed Mr. Sheaffer's posts for a while, I can honestly say that I have never seen him post a flame. If he does flame, it must be by email, but I doubt that this is the case. Would that I had as much patience in dealing with Ted Alter in another group. >E=mail I got one person who stated that he or she didn't want me to >mention his or her name because he or she didn't want you or people >of your type to get after her or him. So if that is your purpose (that >is keeping down people who have ideas other than your own) then keep up >the good work. >John Winston. Rich payner@netcom.com Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd2.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@nntpd2.enet.dec.com (Steve Timpson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: President Bush mentions ET Message-ID: <1992Jul6.132122.19042@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Date: 6 Jul 92 14:21:34 GMT References: <1992Jul2.210946.27902@odin.corp.sgi.com> Sender: usenet@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 14 In article <1992Jul2.210946.27902@odin.corp.sgi.com>, rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes... >Hello Anybody, > >Did anyone hear the excerpt from a press conference President Bush gave >that aired on KGO 810 on the AM dial here in the Bay Area? I guess he(PB) >held up this weeks copy of the tabloid "The News" that had Ross Perot on >the cover with an alien, Stating something to the effect that that he(PB) Get a life! Steve Food_for_the_Grey Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!usenet From: garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: DEATH TO THE CIA!!! Message-ID: <1992Jul6.133208.19143@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Date: 3 Jul 92 01:55:08 GMT Sender: bbs@bluemoon.rn.com (BBS Login) Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024]) Lines: 5 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6822 alt.conspiracy:16426 WHIMMMPPPEERRRR!!!!!!! This is from garys@bluemoon.rn.com who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!usenet From: garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: DEATH TO THE CIA!!! Message-ID: <1992Jul6.133343.19222@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Date: 3 Jul 92 01:55:08 GMT Sender: bbs@bluemoon.rn.com (BBS Login) Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024]) Lines: 6 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6823 alt.conspiracy:16427 WWWHHHIIINNNEEEE!!!!!!! This is from garys@bluemoon.rn.com who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet Article is xrefed to alt.conspiracy:16407 Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!JUTS!rmm20 From: rmm20@ccc.amdahl.com (Robert Mitchell) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Gary Stollman (computer hacking) Message-ID: Date: 6 Jul 92 18:39:50 GMT References: <1992Jul4.071147.10064@anasaz> <1992Jul6.104516.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> Reply-To: rmm20@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Robert Mitchell) Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA Lines: 18 In article <1992Jul6.104516.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> harvey@indyvax.iupui.edu writes: >In article <1992Jul4.071147.10064@anasaz>, billy@anasaz (Bill Moore) writes: >> In article kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) writes: >> ->In article gstimp@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) writes: >> -> >> ->Isn't Gary Stollman the author of GNU EMACS? >> -> >> Yes. Unix too. The author of GNU EMACS, etc. is Richard M. Stallman. Please do not try to relate him to Gary... - Robert Mitchell -- UUCP: rmm20@juts.ccc.amdahl.com DDD: 408-746-8491 USPS: Amdahl Corp. M/S 205, 1250 E. Arques Av, Sunnyvale, CA 94086 BIX: bobmitchell Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!csd4.csd.uwm.edu!markh From: markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark William Hopkins) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Wormholes: was Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers! Message-ID: <1992Jul6.194549.7009@uwm.edu> Date: 6 Jul 92 19:45:49 GMT References: <1992Jul6.112258.8246@uwm.edu> <1992Jul6.141902.910@cbfsb.cb.att.com> <1992Jul6.152510.28202@en.ecn.purdue.edu> Sender: news@uwm.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee Lines: 32 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6825 sci.skeptic:26881 alt.paranormal:5360 In article <1992Jul6.152510.28202@en.ecn.purdue.edu> lush@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Gregory B Lush) writes: >In article <1992Jul6.141902.910@cbfsb.cb.att.com> tke@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (thomas.j.epstein) writes: >> >> You can get to New York at the speed of light >> >> ---- Tom ------------------------------------- tke@cbnewsg.cb.att.com >> > >It wasn't the trip that killed him, it was the sudden stop >at the end. > >Greg More to the point: it takes a year alone just to accelerate up to near the speed of light at a constant 1G. A second point absolutely everybody neglects: unless the ship is obtaining its fuel from outer space in its path, it has to carry all its fuel on board. In that case, the initial mass of the ship + fuel IS EXPONENTIAL in the amount of time expected to spend accelerating and decelerating!! Compared to the fuel payload of the shuttle that (say) may spend a few minutes in thrust, the fuel required for a ship in constant acceleration for a year is e^(1 year/15 minutes) ... which comes out to about e^30000, which is a 1 followed by about, oh, about 15000 ZEROS! If you use nuclear propulsion, maybe you can cut this ratio down to a more reasonable 1 followed by 1000 zeros. Then you have it made! :) Therefore you can almost certainly conclude that any extraterrestial ship that may be present in our solar system for the purpose of exploration and survey did NOT get here by travelling through the intervening space. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: e: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61606@cup.portal.com> Date: 6 Jul 92 19:39:08 GMT References: <168181186B.LINSCOT@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 4 Dear Steve: Please pardon me, I put down I warms my heart and it should have been It warms my heart. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: A need for an alien welcome Message-ID: <61608@cup.portal.com> Date: 6 Jul 92 19:42:05 GMT References: <1992Jul3.011325.22939@ccsd.uts.EDU.AU> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 4 Dear Manuel: Nothing came through on your posting. Please post it again. It sounds like an interesting subject. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: President Bush mentions ET Message-ID: <1992Jul6.202345.13824@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: 6 Jul 92 20:23:45 GMT References: <1992Jul2.210946.27902@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1992Jul6.132122.19042@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Lines: 32 Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com steve,[I write,then you reply] In article <1992Jul2.210946.27902@odin.corp.sgi.com>, rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes... >Hello Anybody, > >Did anyone hear the excerpt from a press conference President Bush gave >that aired on KGO 810 on the AM dial here in the Bay Area? I guess he(PB) >held up this weeks copy of the tabloid "The News" that had Ross Perot on >the cover with an alien, Stating something to the effect that that he(PB) >>Get a life! >>Steve Food_for_the_Grey I sincerely hope that your wish to be food for the GREYS' comes true. Rod -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!palmj From: palmj@vccsouth24.its.rpi.edu (Jyri L. Palm) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: President Bush mentions ET Message-ID: Date: 6 Jul 92 20:54:51 GMT References: <1992Jul2.210946.27902@odin.corp.sgi.com> Lines: 25 Nntp-Posting-Host: vccsouth24.its.rpi.edu rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: >Hello Anybody, >Did anyone hear the excerpt from a press conference President Bush gave >that aired on KGO 810 on the AM dial here in the Bay Area? I guess he(PB) >held up this weeks copy of the tabloid "The News" that had Ross Perot on >the cover with an alien, Stating something to the effect that that he(PB) >was betrayed by the alien cause he(the alien) was trying to help Perot get >elected in any way he could & would help him (RP) with the economy.I think Standing in the grocery line, I browsed this issue. The text said something like Bush met with the alien last year at camp David, but the alien now met with perot. On CNN, I saw the clip with the president. Someone showed Bush the tabloid, and so George decided to make a big joke out of it. He read parts of it out loud and then made smoe cute (but sarcastic) comments. "Alien meets with George Bush at Camp David...Hey I TOLD him this was supposed to be a secret...Alien meets with Perot...I feel really betrayed... I can't believe this...He told me..." It was all in fun...joking...I really hope nobody takes it seriously. Even if there really are aliens here...this is an unrelated bit of humor. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: K2 Report - Part 2 Message-ID: <61612@cup.portal.com> Date: 6 Jul 92 21:10:04 GMT References: <139010.2A56875F@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 5 I enjoyed your article very much and will probubly check out the area sometime. I've been up in that general area before. That's all folks. John Winston. I've interviewed Mr. Harder before and he's a hard person to figure out. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <61613@cup.portal.com> Date: 6 Jul 92 21:23:46 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <61371@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 3 Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10607 alt.alien.visitors:6831 sci.skeptic:26895 Yes Shuckley Michael gets a little up tight, but we had it coming. That's all folks. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <61614@cup.portal.com> Date: 6 Jul 92 21:27:20 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <61586@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 4 Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10608 alt.alien.visitors:6832 sci.skeptic:26896 That's right Rich. We'll make a master of you yet but it may take a while. That's all folks. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61615@cup.portal.com> Date: 6 Jul 92 21:40:05 GMT References: <61433@cup.portal.com> <61580@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 2 Dear Rich: It sure looked like a flame to me. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!datum.nyo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!milkwy.enet.dec.com!trandolph From: trandolph@milkwy.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Dulce Report - Conclusion Message-ID: <1992Jul6.164707.22380@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Date: 6 Jul 92 16:31:14 GMT References: <138997.2A566EBC@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Sender: news@ryn.mro4.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 28 In article <138997.2A566EBC@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>, Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) writes... > * Forwarded from "ParaNet UFO Echo" > * Originally from Michael Corbin > * Originally dated 07-04-92 20:20 > - Dulce report deleted - >-- >Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 >UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name >INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Thank you, thank you, thank you. I've been waiting years to see someone take enough interest to start doing some serious checking into this stuff. On the internal Digital network, we have a UFO interest file. Someone reported a crop circle here in Mass. I went to check it out, expecting to find people crawling all over it. Nothing. As far as I could tell, I was the first to look at it up close. Later, after reporting to the UFO file, it seems I was the only one who -ever- bothered to go look at it -at all-. It was right off a multi-lane highway, for pete's sake! It seems an awful lot of people swallow anything they're fed, unquestioned... For those who are wondering, I don't believe it was a crop circle, not like we've come to know in England, for instance. It was a small area of flattened cattails of irregular shape, in a marshy area. -Tom R. trandolph@milkwy.enet.dec.com Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!uqcspe!cs.uq.oz.au!rhys From: rhys@cs.uq.oz.au (Rhys Weatherley) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Nasa Video & Occam's Razor Message-ID: <9246@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> Date: 6 Jul 92 23:27:45 GMT References: <138950.2A53CF08@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <1992Jul6.162137.19081@rhrk.uni-kl.de> Sender: news@cs.uq.oz.au Reply-To: rhys@cs.uq.oz.au Lines: 34 In <1992Jul6.162137.19081@rhrk.uni-kl.de> kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring) writes: >In article <138950.2A53CF08@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>, Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) writes: >>As I would ask on the "not-so-skeptic" >>side is the same thing I would ask of the "skeptic" side, and that is: prove >>that it is ice/not ice. What are the elements of evidence on both sides? >As long as there is no evidence for either side and, more important, >no evidence *against* either side, one should assume that it was >something already known to exist (such as ice), as Occam's Razor >(the one in the Subject line) states. Only when evidence to the >contrary is presented, the alien hypothesis gets interesting. Sadly, Occam's Razor can more of a hindrance than a help in situations like this (don't get me wrong - I'm a great proponent of Occam's Razor). The skeptics point at the Razor and the video and say "it is ice, because that is the simplest explanation". The skeptics official view then goes on record against any effort of the other side to do further follow-up work to see if indeed the simple explanation is not the right one (or if it is the right one after all). The researchers who wish to do follow-up work get buried under "expert skeptic opinion", and the truth remains hidden. To the skeptics and those who take a skeptic's word as gospel: it would be well to remember that simple does not equal right. Cheers, Rhys. P.S. I personally think it is probably ice in this case, but my comments apply equally to other skeptic/non-skeptic debates on the UFO phenomenon. -- Rhys Weatherley, University of Queensland, Australia. rhys@cs.uq.oz.au "I'm a FAQ nut - what's your problem?" Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Dulce Report - Conclusion Message-ID: <1992Jul7.000018.24512@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: 7 Jul 92 00:00:18 GMT References: <138997.2A566EBC@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Lines: 21 Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com Michael, Didn't the Bill Moore get tangled up in this situation? Didn't this whole episode cause Paul Bennewitz to have a nervous breakdown? Do you have any further documentation on this aspect of the investigation? I for one would like to find out where some (if not all) of the disinformation came from.Are there any other investigations "The Phoenix Project is working on ? Thanks, Rod -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: Date: 6 Jul 92 23:53:45 GMT References: <61580@cup.portal.com> <61615@cup.portal.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 31 In article <61615@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Rich: It sure looked like a flame to me. >John Winston. John, a rebuttal is not a flame. If I post, "I think you have reasoned incorrectly based upon..." or "I think that your starting assumptions are wrong..." Then you have not been flamed. But if I were to sa something rude like... "Only an idiot would believe anything stupid like that, get a life" THEN, you would be flamed. As long as it is calm, reasoned, reasonable, and impersonal, it is not called flaming. The moment it gets personal and rude, then it is a flame. So if someone just questions your post, or argues your logic, you have not been flamed. Rich payner@netcom.com (OK, I have done a bit myself. But there are times when it -is- a valid response. Calmer minds like Robert Shaeffer do not flame even when it would be considered a valid response) Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!udel!gvls1!tredysvr!cellar!revpk From: revpk@cellar.org (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: ALF Message-ID: Date: 6 Jul 92 18:28:06 GMT References: <1992Jul3.031423.28061@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> Sender: bbs@cellar.org (The Cellar BBS) Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system Lines: 13 hamiltl@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Leon Hamilton) writes: > I'd just like to say that I think ALF is the is the most deadlist cool > alien ever created. No even E.T. comes close. Gordon Shumway is the > best. Naw, my vote goes for the Mugwumps in 'Naked Lunch.' Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano revpk@cellar.org New Sig File Under Construction-- Light and Compact for your Usenet Pleasure. "The recent problem with the satellite retrieval managed to prove one thing; DeVries graduates really _do_ work for NASA." Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!news.bbn.com!micro-heart-of-gold.mit.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Dulce Report - Conclusion Message-ID: Date: 7 Jul 92 01:12:06 GMT References: <138997.2A566EBC@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <1992Jul7.000018.24512@odin.corp.sgi.com> Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 12 rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: Didn't the Bill Moore get tangled up in this situation? Didn't this whole episode cause Paul Bennewitz to have a nervous breakdown? .... at least one version of this tale appears in Howard Blum's "Out There" (Simon and Schuster, NY, 1990). I too would be interested in comments about how correct it is. The way its written, Blum talked to Moore himself... Charles Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!news2me.ebay.sun.com!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr From: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Bosonic Transport Message-ID: Date: 7 Jul 92 02:56:37 GMT References: <1992Jul1.144948.1@vxdesy.desy.de> Reply-To: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Lines: 27 Xref: ns-mx alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1880 sci.physics:23431 alt.alien.visitors:6840 NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com In article 1@vxdesy.desy.de, silverstein@vxdesy.desy.de () writes: >Sorry, but that's not quite correct. Helium in the superfluid state does indeed >act like a boson, but even though its superfluidity allows it to flow through >the tiniest of pores, it is still contained in its cryogenic vessel. At a >small enough range, the effects of the individual fermions which comprise it >become significant. > >So even if you did properly align the spins of all the molecules in a >spaceship to make it a boson, it would not be able to penetrate through solid >matter. > >Fun idea, though... The idea is to put all matter that comes into contact with the field into a bosonic state also, allowing it to pass through the original mass and returning to a non-bosonic state as it leave the other side, so there would be no vessel in this sense. There would, however, be a problem of keeping the two mass fields separated, perhaps by maintaining them in slightly different alignments. --- jdr@starflight.corp.sun.com, starflt@uunet.uu.net Jon Roland Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A, Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141 Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!news2me.ebay.sun.com!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr From: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Bosonic Transport Message-ID: Date: 7 Jul 92 03:17:00 GMT References: <24328@dog.ee.lbl.gov> Reply-To: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Lines: 29 Xref: ns-mx alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1881 sci.physics:23433 alt.alien.visitors:6841 NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com In article 24328@dog.ee.lbl.gov, sichase@csa3.lbl.gov (SCOTT I CHASE) writes: >>jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) writes: >>|> Greatly simplifying the physics, we can say that fermions can only get >>|> so close to one another >the effect which you describe (variously called "Pauli pressure", >"degeneracy pressure", "wave-function antisymmetrization","fermionic repulsion". >and a host of other names) does not preclude fermions from being arbitrarily >close in phase space for short times, although it decreases the probability. Bear with me here. I could discuss this in terms of QED, but lose much of the intended audience. Simplification here means eliminating discussion in terms of probabilities. I am trying to avoid a physics lecture and focus on some lines of speculation that while probably unsound may lead to some interesting ideas. The resistance of material bodies to interpenetration is, after all, only a matter of probabilities. There is a certain nonzero probability that any two bodies upon encountering one another will simply pass through one another, or tunnel through, but the probability is very, very low. The point here is to try to devise thought experiments in which that probability can be increased to nearly unity, and then try to find out why the experiments won't work. If we have a lot of trouble debunking such a thought experiment, we might learn something. --- jdr@starflight.corp.sun.com, starflt@uunet.uu.net Jon Roland Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A, Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141 Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!starfish.cps.msu.edu!wilbur From: wilbur@starfish.cps.msu.edu (brick Wilbur) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: A Confirmed UFO Coverup Message-ID: <1992Jul7.022530.5351@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Date: 7 Jul 92 02:25:30 GMT References: <1992Jul4.211256.22707@m.cs.uiuc.edu> <61525@cup.portal.com> Sender: wilbur@starfish.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University Lines: 5 Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:26931 alt.paranormal:5361 alt.alien.visitors:6842 In article <61525@cup.portal.com>, ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith) writes: |> Is a UFO coverup like a car bra? No, like what a babe where's to the beach. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!ncar!uchinews!msuinfo!starfish.cps.msu.edu!wilbur From: wilbur@starfish.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers! Message-ID: <1992Jul7.034020.19697@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Date: 7 Jul 92 03:40:20 GMT References: <2kFFNB1w165w@tsoft.sf-bay.org> <1992Jul6.112258.8246@uwm.edu> <1992Jul6.141902.910@cbfsb.cb.att.com> Sender: wilbur@starfish.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University Lines: 34 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6843 sci.skeptic:26937 alt.paranormal:5362 In article <1992Jul6.141902.910@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, tke@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (thomas.j.epstein) writes: |> In article <1992Jul6.112258.8246@uwm.edu> markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark William Hopkins) writes: |> >It only takes a few seconds to cross one end of the galaxy to the other through |> >a wormhole connecting the two ends. |> |> Made the trip often, then? |> |> Also: |> |> You can get to New York at the speed of light, provided you "beam" in, |> rather than drive or fly, |> |> The ancient Egyptians ran an inter-stellar filling station for the |> greys. Those funny-looking pointy stone structures were bill- |> boards which also made nifty places to keep mummies, |> |> My farie godmother can make a wormhole that connects between my |> clothes dryer and all of my single socks which have fled to the |> planet of sentient knit items, Galfrondia III; but I asked her not |> to, because they are happier where they are now, |> |> I'll be publishing the secret of eternal youth as soon as my friend |> Ponce gets back from Florida with my notebook. |> |> Darn, gotta go, the aliens at the door will NOT go away untill I've at least |> looked at their stupid Antaries vacation condos flyer. Yeah, I hate it when they do that. Usually, just as you're getting in the shower they come around. And, they won't take no for an answer. Pushy little grey skinned buggers. Brick Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!ncar!uchinews!msuinfo!starfish.cps.msu.edu!wilbur From: wilbur@starfish.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: A Confirmed UFO Coverup Message-ID: <1992Jul7.041533.26902@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Date: 7 Jul 92 04:15:33 GMT References: <1992Jul4.211256.22707@m.cs.uiuc.edu> <61525@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul7.022530.5351@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Sender: wilbur@starfish.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University Lines: 11 Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:26938 alt.paranormal:5363 alt.alien.visitors:6844 In article <1992Jul7.022530.5351@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, wilbur@starfish.cps.msu.edu (brick Wilbur) writes: |> In article <61525@cup.portal.com>, ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith) writes: |> |> Is a UFO coverup like a car bra? |> |> |> No, like what a babe where's to the beach. ^^^^^^^ oopps, should be "wears". Brick Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!ames!ncar!uchinews!msuinfo!starfish.cps.msu.edu!wilbur From: wilbur@starfish.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Jul7.034822.21414@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Date: 7 Jul 92 03:48:22 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <61586@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University Lines: 17 Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10617 alt.alien.visitors:6845 sci.skeptic:26939 In article <61586@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: |> Dear Arasis: |> I was in the town of Mt. Shasta City at 9:00 P.M. July the 4th watching |> the fire works. At 9:20 P.M. I remembered about your group activity and |> pointed my flashlight over towards Mt. Shasta (the mountain itself). I |> blinked the light on and off and someone or something (I don't know for |> sure what) was blinking back. I sent the people inside the mountain and |> the space people a telepathic thought that we love them and want to work |> with them for the good of the Earth and everything else. So, thanks to you |> Arasis for your suggestion that we do this. |> That's all folks. |> John Winston. Is this guy for real? Anyone know him? Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party Message-ID: <61644@cup.portal.com> Date: 7 Jul 92 05:20:24 GMT References: <74137@ut-emx.uucp> <61283@cup.portal.com><1992Jun29.172426.22961@newserve.cc.binghamton.edu> <61435@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul3.114017.7294@vax.oxford.ac.uk> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 6 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6846 sci.skeptic:26942 There are degrees and types of enlightment. The one you get sometimes from being abducted by friendly space people is that they enlighten you as to the fact that you have been on their planet or dimension before this life and they are your long lost brothers and sisters. That's all folks. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!starfish.cps.msu.edu!wilbur From: wilbur@starfish.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: NASA censorship! Message-ID: <1992Jul7.033132.17786@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Date: 7 Jul 92 03:31:32 GMT References: <1992Jul4.063119.9412@anasaz> Sender: news@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University Lines: 21 In article <1992Jul4.063119.9412@anasaz>, billy@anasaz (Bill Moore) writes: |> I've been off sick and haven't been on this group for awhile so I apologize |> if this has been covered. |> |> Does anyone know why NASA is encoding the shuttle feed on Satcom 2, |> transponder 5? That's the "raw" uplink to NASA direct from the shuttle. |> Transponder 13 is still in the clear but that's the "packaged" stuff |> NASA puts together for the news media. |> |> Audio and video from the shuttle has been "in the clear" during every shuttle |> mission for years so it was really a suprise when they started this. They're |> using the same encoding system as CBS and ABC whcih means they're pretty |> serious about it. |> |> -- |> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - |> Bill Moore billy%anasaz.UUCP@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (602) 395-1732 |> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Oh, I dont know....CONSPIRACY MAYBE!!?? Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!starfish.cps.msu.edu!wilbur From: wilbur@starfish.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: What the hell is a ley line?? Message-ID: <1992Jul7.034339.20402@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Date: 7 Jul 92 03:43:39 GMT Sender: wilbur@starfish.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University Lines: 3 What the hell is a ley line, and who started that post?! Brick Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!rutgers!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!starfish.cps.msu.edu!wilbur From: wilbur@starfish.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Occam's Razor Message-ID: <1992Jul7.040643.25210@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Date: 7 Jul 92 04:06:43 GMT Sender: wilbur@starfish.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University Lines: 9 Who is Occams, and what about his razor? Does it get close than the Remingtion Micro Screen? Is it sharper than a Ginsu Knife?? What's up with his razor? Brick Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!rutgers!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!starfish.cps.msu.edu!wilbur From: wilbur@starfish.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: k-2 phoenix report Message-ID: <1992Jul7.042327.28387@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Date: 7 Jul 92 04:23:27 GMT Sender: wilbur@starfish.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) Followup-To: Phoenix report Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University Lines: 14 Remember, this k-2 report could also be disinformation. Maybe there really is a base at DULCE, and now *they* are having us believe that this organization called the Phoenix Foundation (or whatever) has uncovered the real base in California. Anyone know about this Phoenix place? OR the validity of either reports? Sounds incredible, but let's check their credibility, and the credibility of the posting to this group and others. Anybody with any insight? Brick Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!mips!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!vjmurphy From: vjmurphy@carina.unm.edu (Phred T. Platypus) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: k-2 phoenix report (Phoenix Foundation Info!) Message-ID: Date: 7 Jul 92 06:13:13 GMT References: <1992Jul7.042327.28387@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 16 In article <1992Jul7.042327.28387@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> wilbur@starfish.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) writes: >Remember, this k-2 report could also be disinformation. >Maybe there really is a base at DULCE, and now *they* are having us believe that >this organization called the Phoenix Foundation (or whatever) has uncovered the >real base in California. >Anyone know about this Phoenix place? OR the validity of either reports? > All I know is that the Phoenix Foundation has a resourceful agent by the name of MacGyver. And if he's on their side...I'd be careful. -- "You ask me if sex is one of the most _\_\ _/_/ Phred Platypus important things in life? Absolutely. _\_\ _/_/ Grammarian of Vengeance But the lack of it is even likelier _\_\_/_/ [ vjmurphy@carina.unm.edu ] to drive you nuts." -- Harlan Ellison _\_/ Vincent J. Murphy Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!Don_-_Showen From: Don_-_Showen@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Immortality of Being and Contact -Pleiadians 11 Message-ID: <61648@cup.portal.com> Date: 7 Jul 92 08:27:34 GMT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 334 Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10618 alt.alien.visitors:6852 sci.skeptic:26950 Here is the Connecting Link Magazine Issue 11 Pleiadian article. A great advertisement for my one hour, eighteen session, hot tub, hyperventilating process. I call it Cellular Memory and DNA Activation. As far as the crack pot last time, who said breathing can kill you, he was kidding or is in such personal terror that he made up that belief to guarantee he will not get near my hot tub. The truth is this process is not for wimps. Only one in ten of my clients is men. Men are in so much horror over feeling that they encapsulate themselves in denial and ego with the accompanying rationalizations and justifications. BTW, I counsel 10 to 20 of these hyperventilating sessions a week and I have been doing it for over 15 years. People do not die in my tub, they become more alive then they have been for many, many lifetimes. It is pretty obvious that these concepts are a little to much for most who subscribe to these three groups. So I am starting a Pleiadian Group List for those who would like to ask questions, make comments and learn more about these powerful, incredible teachings. Email me for more information. Don Showen Soul Guide Pleiadian Group Church/School/Community ET Teachings at their finest Immortality of Being and Contact The death experience as you know it, is something that you program yourselves for. Your aging process is something that is an expectation within your lifetimes. We would like to plant the seed for the idea that you will be around perhaps for at least a hundred more of your years, if you so choose. If you so choose. What you are going to be working on is an understanding and a releasing of ideas that have set about limitations for your experience and how to reprogram, so to speak, how to release trauma that has been built in, that is coded and written within the bones and the cells of your structure that anticipate a certain form of development. This is not a new idea, this idea of immortality. But it is an idea that is going to come alive. You are being prepared to teach the masses whether you realize it or not. Each of you will be working in a different fashion, manifesting your own unique sense of creativity. Yet, each one will be catching the core issues that are being stirred up in the masses at this time. It is imperative that many of you stay around to help formulate the new earth that is being birthed. You are not being trained to work for perhaps twenty or thirty more of your years and then to retire. That is not what this is about. You are in the midst of a gigantic shift in consciousness covering the entire earth sphere, Terra. At this point in your time, you are only looking through one pin-prick of a view of what this is going to involve. It is beyond your comprehension. Rest easy with this for it will open as you are in receptivity to understand what is needed to know. This idea of immortality, this longevity in the life experience, will have to do with your understanding of the importance of aligning the beliefs with the vehicle, of utilizing the great healer and regenerator called oxygen on your system, and how through breathing and the releasing of limiting ideas and limiting programs that have been placed on the vehicle, you will allow yourself to regenerate. Some of you may feel despondent at this idea because your lives are not in harmony at this time and you may say, "I do not want to live 100 more years." [This will change] as certain difficulties are brought to the surface and released and worked out. This will come about through your intentions. It will come about in a natural process. It will develop over time. We are giving you an avenue of exploration to show you what you are working towards. As you make your lives in order and as you are forming the new earth you will want to be here for the gratification and for the satisfaction and for the ability to have this great completion that will free you with flying colors from your tethers to your Mother Earth. You all expect to die.You celebrate your birthdays and you are most joyous about these birthdays to a certain age. Then you begin to dread them because you have a program set out for yourself that says that each birthday is bringing about the degeneration of the body, bringing about a decrepit state, a state of ill health, a state that promotes inactivity. Your cards in your stores that you buy promote this. You turn 29 years old and you say to yourself you are over the hill. We are bringing this up to you because we have been working with you and preparing you not for a few years of excitement but for many years if you choose. It is always up to you. There are probable lives that exist in front of you that are free of physical difficulty. If you wish to be free of physical difficulties it is you that needs to be in receptivity of healing. Healing is necessary when there is a discomfort within the body. A discomfort exists within the body when one refuses the growth that the soul needs to experience. It is a blockage of growth. It is a fear of change. You have heard us speak often enough how important it is to change and yet each and every one of you fear change and you wish to control down to the minutest detail every aspect of your lives. When you allow the vehicle to move forward without fear, then there is no need for discomfort or disease. When you learn to believe that you can maintain a consistency of body structure, a consistency of cell regeneration, then truly will you be able to demonstrate to others. Expand your ideas, particularly in the areas of aging and immortality, about who you can be. You can revitalize yourselves. There are ancient sciences, as we may call them, on your planet who have spoken of the importance of the breath over and over again. And yet to you it all seems like too much work. What do you all have in common with one another throughout the entire planet? You all need to breathe. Is that not so? And what is it this oxygen does to your system? It regenerates it. It activates what is going on inside. In this time of energy acceleration it would behoove each and every one of you to add more oxygen to your being. There are many ways to do this. The most simplistic is to become consciously aware of your breath. Through the breath you can do many things. You can activate the crystalline structures or deactivate the crystalline structures. You can activate your own self. You can clear energy that is coming between two beings purely by inhaling and releasing. You can bring about a state of great calmness. You can bring about a state of altered consciousness. You can bring about a state of healing. You can bring about, eventually, a state of teleportation and bi-location and dematerialization. This is all something that you are working towards. The second part of our discussion is about being in preparation and what it is to have contact. Contact has existed on your planet from the very beginning. There have been those that have come down and it has been their life journey to sojourn on your planet and to teach cultures. There are those who are even on this day sequestered away within the deep catacombs, as you would call them, the deep underground tunnels and monasteries of your ancient Tibetan area that house the bodies of those who are kept in what you would call perpetuity so that they can be reminded of the star teachers who have given so much to this planet. Whenever mankind has made a leap forward that leap has come because mankind has been guided and because mankind asked for assistance. Much information is transferred to your planet in a variety of ways. Each and every one of you is on the verge of having great volumes of information come through to you. It is up to you whether you are going to believe this. It is up to you whether you are going to call out and ask for a teacher and ask for the assistant that you are needing in this moment to bring about your life's work and fulfillment. You are all here for really important reasons. Eventually you each are going to be coming into contact. That may occur in a variety of ways. You have heard us say over and over again that there are many dimensions of experience. Each dimension of experience has its own validity. As third dimensional man who would call "real" only one portion of its existence, when everything you perceive and everything you feel is real. Prepare yourselves and wait in each and every moment for more information, for a gentle love to come through and relinquish your fear. You may think it is easy for us to say to relinquish your fears. It is easy to say. Your fears have to do with a multitudinous buildup that has come from your childhood. What your ideas of the unknown may be, what your ideas of safety may be and what is in store for you. At first, you may be startled when one comes into your presence and resonates four or five feet off the ground and gives you teachings for an hour or two. Yet, if that is your experience, you have called it to yourself. This year you would find that each month, each one of your moons, will multiply itself exponentially prior to the month that you have just experienced. So whatever it was that you have experienced in your month that has just passed, you will find that it will double itself in the next month. It will continue to build. You are creating for yourselves a massive acceleration because you are each calling it to yourself. You had best, if you wish to take our advice, keep yourself in balance and by all means, clearly call out through prayer or through intention, whichever feels more correct to you, call out to what you are desiring to manifest and utilize the great gifts that are coming your way. You each have selected yourselves and you each have placed yourself in an opportunity to grow beyond your wildest dreams. We are here as always to assist. We encourage you and we say to you that there is a pathway of joy and glory that lies in front of you and it is all that you need to know. Move yourself towards this. QUESTION: Will we begin eating a lighter and lighter diet as we learn to rejuvenate ourselves and learn to take more energy out of the ethers and less out of our physical surroundings? PLEIADIANS: You've got it. For those of you who like food, it is not that you need to let it go. It is not that it is going to be a great sacrifice. It is that you will find that there are alternative ways of being and you will find that those habits that you had you are no longer in desire of participating within. You will find, many of you, that as you begin to oxygenate the system more, that you would bring about a greater state of energy and that as you begin to bring about this greater state of energy you will find that it is not necessarily coming from the food source, that it is coming from light, that it is coming from meditation, it is coming from being aligned with your thoughts and the changing of your beliefs and that the body does not have to be based on what your nutritionists say you need to have to keep alive. QUESTION: What would be the first step we should take in this rejuvenation process? PLEIADIANS: Oxygenation. Oxygenation flushes out what is unnecessary and keeps the body full of light. Breathing is the main thing. There are additives that are also oxygenators. There are many assistants to bring about oxygenation [that you can buy]. The breath has not been focused on enough. All of these other things certainly assist you but breathing is your key. Whatever it is that you are going to add to your lives, utilize the great process of breathing. Each man on your planet has been given all that is needed to come to a completion. It is you, yourselves, who go about inventing things to assist this and there is nothing wrong with this. We applaud your creativity. But you, yourselves, each have the ability and your breathing is one of your greatest tools. There are many techniques. There are many journeys that can be taken by utilization of the breath alone. Utilizing the breath and the oxygenation process in conjunction with taking substances that have oxygen within them, particularly if you participate in foods that are rich in oxygen, you are enhancing a lightness of being. You are activating an energy form that brings about greater states of awareness. QUESTION: You began the evening talking about contact. I feel that I have been contacted but I'm not sure whether it was real or not. PLEIADIANS: What do you think we're going to say that you were imagining it? What have we been speaking to you about imagination? What have we been speaking to you about the various realms of experience? They are legitimate. You had your wits about you and you were told at that moment to receive. Many of you are surrounded on a continual basis. It is up to you to have your wits to receive. Some of you will begin to feel pressure on your body, to feel pressure on your skin. There will be slight hintings. There will be feelings around you in the atmosphere that the air has changed. There will be a difference in the light molecular structure in front of you. This is all a portion of a variety of energies that are attempting to communicate with you. More than [the fact that] these entities are attempting to communicate with you is that you, yourself, have broken down your barriers as to your definitions of what you think is possible. You are moving more steadfastly into what you would call fourth dimensional experience which allows you to be feelers and not thinkers. QUESTIONS: What about our fears of contact? PLEIADIANS: There are very few existing on the planet at this time who are fearless. So, first of all, relinquish any judgment you may have of yourself or of others who are facing their fears. One of the best ways to overcome fear is to acknowledge it. Where you trick yourselves and you try to pretend that you are not afraid, you hold on and you hide deep inside of your being this intimate feeling that you will not admit because you think it is a weakness. When you lay it out in front of you and you say, "I am afraid," you are willing the issue to a head and you are asking that you understand this fear and you are asking for assistance in this area. When you have fear, particularly of contact, you are fearing that there is going to be the unknown, the "x" factor, that is going to come in and affect you in a way that you will feel out of control with. We have been saying that your world is a result of your thought manifestation. This idea works in all of the realms of experience. Your intention about the kind of experience you wish to have can literally change in the moment. If ever you are finding, whether it be in third, fourth or fifth dimensional experience, that you are drawing to yourself something less than what you are choosing, then you must learn to believe that you can vanquish that in an instant whether it be a dream or one who would come to literally attack you. Your powers are such. Your thoughts will send out a wall of protection and you can use a thrust of energy that will stop whatever is coming your way. When you are feeling a fear and if you wish to stop the experience and you are not prepared for it, state this and put up around yourself a shield of light and know that that shield of light is as real as any wall that you would build with cinder blocks. This is what you are teaching yourselves, that your thoughts form your world. The large majority of you will not be in need of protection because you have the ability to understand that you would draw to yourself the highest of light energy. If you are desiring contact, ask that the contact come in a time when you are safe, when you are comfortable, that you not be startled. Define how you wish contact. If you are going about saying, "I want contact. I want contact," what are you going to get? If you want contact in a certain condition in certain parameters of experience, state this. "I would like to have..." and define in the affirmative how you would be designing your experience. "I would enjoy contact with one who would approach me with love and that I immediately sense this and that I immediately move into a state of receptivity. I [want to be] contacted by one whose physical visage and vibration is something that I am comfortable with." It is up to you to design how adventurous you wish your experiences. There will be a time when you will be gathering so many experiences that we will be pushed to the background waiting our turn to come in. There are many, many contacts going on on the planet at this time. Your universe is teeming with life. Just because one has certain abilities does not necessarily mean that they are of the highest intentions. When you are bringing an understanding of teaching into your life and energies from the outside, whether they be extraterrestrial or whatever fashion or form the higher energies come to you, discernment is most important. The way you discern is by the feeling in the center portion of your body. How is it that you feel? Are you feeling in comfort? Are you feeling uplifted? What is the message that is being given? Are you being pointed to your own abilities or are you being asked to do something that does not feel comfortable to you? All of these are keys. Most definitely on your planet you are going to be experiencing great confusion because it is all going to break loose very shortly. All that has been covered up, all that has been kept from you is going to come out in this decade and you are all going to have the opportunity to fine tune discernment and to align yourself with energies human and otherwise that will afford opportunities for your growth. It is you that, through your intention, will decide how that growth will be. [Most of] the beings coming from the skies at this time are those to enhance the spiritual understanding of mankind. Mankind will learn to resonate with his own beauty and great desire to become one with the higher realms. Do not call those who come from the sky aliens. Realize that we are your ancient heritage and that many have come to assist you. Many have come to reawaken and allow you to move beyond this time that you have been greatly sequestered by your own energies. We congratulate you on your journeys into yourselves. The Pleiadians are a collective of extraterrestrials from the star system the Pleiades. The Pleiadian culture is ancient and was "seeded" from another universe of love long before Earth was created. They have formed a tremendous society which operates with love, with ideas and ideals that we are yet unfamiliar with. The Pleiadians call themselves our ancient family because many of us came here from the Pleiades to participate in the new experiment of Earth. The Pleiadians are here as ambassadors from another universe to help Earth through her transition from the third dimension to the fourth dimension and to assist each of us in our personal endeavors of awakening, remembering and knowing. Barbara J. Marciniak is an internationally known trance channel from North Carolina. She began channeling in 1988. The strength and purity of the message she is bringing very quickly captured the hearts of many seekers looking to be all that they can be. Barbara has channeled at various Expos and for groups across the United States, in Peru and in Germany. She is planning trips to Egypt, Japan, Australia and Europe in 1990. You may contact Barbara at Bold Connections, P. O. Box 6521, Raleigh, NC 27628. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!mixcom.com!jjwwjj From: jjwwjj@mixcom.com (Robotic Systems) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: MILLER BEER & ALIENS Message-ID: <1992Jul07.023952.15894@mixcom.com> Date: 7 Jul 92 02:39:52 GMT Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A. Lines: 16 Has anyone else seen the Miller Brewing Company commericial for LITE beer? It features Greys partying with LITE beer and a crop "circle" in the shape of the LITE beer logo. This must be part of the consipiracy to get us all used to the idea of aliens (before the government announces they are real, they've got to get us "warmed up" to the idea... Steve_Food_For_The_Greys watch out!). -- =============================================================================== ROBOTIC SYSTEMS, INC. CLINT LASKOWSKI P. O. Box 552 (414) 778-7675 Cudahy, Wisconsin 53110-0552 robots@mixcom.com =============================================================================== Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!dxcern!dscomsa.desy.de!vxdesy.desy.de!silverstein From: silverstein@vxdesy.desy.de Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Bosonic Transport Message-ID: <1992Jul7.132607.1@vxdesy.desy.de> Date: 7 Jul 92 13:26:07 GMT References: <1992Jul1.144948.1@vxdesy.desy.de> Sender: news@dscomsf.desy.de (USENET News System) Organization: (DESY, Hamburg, Germany) Lines: 36 Xref: ns-mx alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1882 sci.physics:23438 alt.alien.visitors:6854 Nntp-Posting-Host: vxdsyb.desy.de In article , jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) writes: > In article 1@vxdesy.desy.de, silverstein@vxdesy.desy.de () writes: >>Sorry, but that's not quite correct. Helium in the superfluid state does indeed >>act like a boson, but even though its superfluidity allows it to flow through >>the tiniest of pores, it is still contained in its cryogenic vessel. At a >>small enough range, the effects of the individual fermions which comprise it >>become significant. >> >>So even if you did properly align the spins of all the molecules in a >>spaceship to make it a boson, it would not be able to penetrate through solid >>matter. >> >>Fun idea, though... > > The idea is to put all matter that comes into contact with the field > into a bosonic state also, allowing it to pass through the original > mass and returning to a non-bosonic state as it leave the other side, > so there would be no vessel in this sense. There would, however, be a > problem of keeping the two mass fields separated, perhaps by > maintaining them in slightly different alignments. > > That still doesn't help you. By its bosonic properties, superfluid helium has zero viscosity and has special properties such as "second sound". But by your reasoning, the molecules would be able to pass arbitrarily close to each other without interacting at all. This would allow the helium to occupy a much smaller volume (approaching zero), but this is clearly not the case. Once the atoms of helium get close enough to each other, the effects of the individual fermions in the atoms (the protons, neutrons, and electrons) become significant and the electron shells repel. The bosonic properties only work at a more macroscopic level (molecules in a liquid). So even if you took two cars and turned them both into bosons and aimed them at each other at high speeds, I wouldn't want to handle the insurance claim... Sam Silverstein Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!centerline!noc.near.net!mars.caps.maine.edu!maine.maine.edu!umasp From: UMASP@MAINE.MAINE.EDU, , Inc.> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Gray Recipes Message-ID: <92189.020115UMASP@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Date: 7 Jul 92 06:01:15 GMT References: <1992Jul2.200313.1333@coe.montana.edu> Distribution: usa Organization: University of Maine System Lines: 24 I have one. It's called the Mason-Dixon Milkshake or better known as the 'Blue and the Grey'. Ingredients: 100 cups of whole milk 1 Grey alien (of average size) 50 Smurfs assorted spices such as cinnamon, nutmeg, etc... Directions: Slice Grey alien into 50 equal parts and place one part along with one whole smurf into a blender. Add two cups of milk and puree thoroughly for at least 2 minutes. Pour into tall glass and season to taste with cinnamon & nutmeg. Makes 50 delicious servings suitable for any occasion such as family reunions, New Years Eve parties (who needs Egg Nog), and everything from a backyard barbeque to a baptism. May be served hot during the winter months to ward off the evening chill. Makes 50 servings; enough for all your friends and family. For summer months, try freezing it into popsicles. You'll be the envy of everyone else at the beach. Enjoy! George Newell umasp@maine Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd2.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@nntpd2.enet.dec.com (Steve Timpson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Bush reads tabloid story re aliens Message-ID: <1992Jul7.124045.20190@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Date: 7 Jul 92 13:40:44 GMT References: <1992Jul4.222222.18144@agora.uucp> Sender: usenet@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 13 In article <1992Jul4.222222.18144@agora.uucp>, krowell@agora.rain.com (Keith Rowell) writes... >A strange article showed up recently in newspapers. The >following article was accompanied by a photo showing President >Bush clearly reading the July 14, 1992, issue of the World Weekly ad nausium..... Get a LIFE!!!! Steve Food_for_the_Greys Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd2.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@nntpd2.enet.dec.com (Steve Timpson) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Jul7.124948.20352@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Date: 7 Jul 92 13:45:40 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <61371@cup.portal.com> Sender: usenet@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 21 Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10621 alt.alien.visitors:6857 sci.skeptic:26953 In article , sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley) writes... >John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > >>Dear Arasia: Thanks very much for sending me the information about Who's this Arasia babe????? Wait a minute.... Arasia... Arasia.... I'VE GOT IT! ARASIA is the name of the planet in E.E. "DOC" Smiths "Lensman" science fiction series. This is the planet where the Galactic Patrol members go to become Lensmen by receiving there lens braclets from the super powerful Arasians. Jezzzzus Keyyyrist people GET A LIFE!!!! Steve Food_for_the_Greys Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd2.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@nntpd2.enet.dec.com (Steve Timpson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: President Bush mentions ET Message-ID: <1992Jul7.130711.20689@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Date: 7 Jul 92 14:00:48 GMT References: <1992Jul2.210946.27902@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1992Jul6.132122.19042@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> <1992Jul6.202345.13824@odin.corp.sgi.com> Sender: usenet@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 23 In article <1992Jul6.202345.13824@odin.corp.sgi.com>, rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes... > >>Steve Food_for_the_Greys > > > >I sincerely hope that your wish to be food for the GREYS' comes true. > >Rod FYI "Food_for_the_Greys" is a dig at those who believe that the Greys are cultivating humans as food. Rod Evidently you believe that "The World News" is something to be read and believed just like the "World Wrestling Federation" is a true sport and not rehearsed. FYI the "The World News" is owed by the "National Enquirer" and prints stuff that the "National Enquirer" deems too rediculous to print. Steve Food_for_the_Greys Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!uofs!prijat.cs.uofs.edu!bill From: bill@prijat.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: k-2 phoenix report Message-ID: <10871@platypus.uofs.uofs.edu> Date: 7 Jul 92 12:01:21 GMT References: <1992Jul7.042327.28387@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Sender: news@uofs.uofs.edu Reply-To: bill@platypus.uofs.edu Organization: University of Scranton, Scranton, PA Lines: 19 Nntp-Posting-Host: prijat.cs.uofs.edu In article <1992Jul7.042327.28387@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, wilbur@starfish.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) writes: |> |> Maybe there really is a base at DULCE, and now *they* are having us believe that |> this organization called the Phoenix Foundation (or whatever) has uncovered the |> real base in California. |> Excuse me, but isn't The Phoenix Foundation the group that McGyver works for on Monday Nights??? Well, if anybody could find a UFO base, I guess it would be him. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | If this statement wasn't here, bill@platypus.uofs.edu | This space would be left intentionally blank bill@tuatara.uofs.edu | #include Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!batcomputer!reed!henson!news.u.washington.edu!usenet.coe.montana.edu!sinc.oscs.montana.edu!imsgjraq From: imsgjraq@sinc.oscs.montana.edu (Joseph Raquepas) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: President Bush mentions ET Keywords: n Message-ID: <1992Jul6.230314.22981@coe.montana.edu> Date: 6 Jul 92 23:03:14 GMT References: <1992Jul2.210946.27902@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1992Jul6.132122.19042@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> <1992Jul6.202345.13824@odin.corp.sgi.com> Sender: usenet@coe.montana.edu (USENET News System) Organization: College of Hosiery Science Lines: 13 > >>Get a life! > > >>Steve Food_for_the_Grey > >I sincerely hope that your wish to be food for the GREYS' comes true. > >Rod Yeah, because Rod's writing a new book---How to Flame a Skeptic. :-) jr Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: President Bush mentions ET Message-ID: <1992Jul7.152523.15088@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: 7 Jul 92 15:25:23 GMT References: <1992Jul2.210946.27902@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1992Jul6.132122.19042@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> <1992Jul6.202345.13824@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1992Jul7.130711.20689@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Lines: 52 Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com Steve,[I WRITE,T> >>Steve Food_for_the_Greys > > > >I sincerely hope that your wish to be food for the GREYS' comes true. > >Rod >> FYI "Food_for_the_Greys" is a dig at those who believe that the >> Greys are cultivating humans as food. >> Rod >>Evidently you believe that "The World News" is something to be >>read and believed just like the "World Wrestling Federation" is a >>true sport and not rehearsed. FYI the "The World News" is owed by >>the "National Enquirer" and prints stuff that the "National >>Enquirer" deems too rediculous to print. >>Steve Food_for_the_Greys steve, Do not put words into my mouth,I was not concerned with the validity of the article that was is the tabloid. I was more interested why our President would even mention it.Its obvious that your interpretation skills are lacking. At any rate I think your dig is premature,we really have no idea what the intention of these creatures are.At least now I have the piece of mind knowing that you will be first in line to sacrifice yourself for the good of all mankind. I hope they don't find you to sour though,they might just decide to keep you alive cause ya taste so bad & just decide to manipulate your DNA.It could be ugly.....Careful what you wish for!! Rod -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!das.wang.com!wang!news From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Immortality of Being and Contact -Pleiadians 11 Message-ID: <2218@israel.nysernet.org> Date: 7 Jul 92 15:32:21 GMT References: <61648@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@wang.com Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org Followup-To: talk.religion.newage Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs Lines: 16 Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10625 alt.alien.visitors:6862 sci.skeptic:26966 In <61648@cup.portal.com> Don_-_Showen@cup.portal.com writes: QUESTION: What would be the first step we should take in this rejuvenation process? PLEIADIANS: Oxygenation. Oxygenation flushes out what is unnecessary and keeps the body full of light. Breathing is the main thing. There are additives that are also oxygenators. There are many assistants to bring about oxygenation [that you can buy]. Don't forget beets. -- /|/-\/-\ I'll leave you with this saying: |__/__/_/ FEELINGS are cascading over me!!! |warren@ / nysernet.org Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!m.cs.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!mcgrath From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Immortality of Being and Contact -Pleiadians 11 Message-ID: <1992Jul7.171511.27363@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Date: 7 Jul 92 17:15:11 GMT References: <61648@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@m.cs.uiuc.edu (News Database (admin-Mike Schwager)) Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science Lines: 2 Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10626 alt.alien.visitors:6863 sci.skeptic:26972 This is a relief. Its been a while since we heard from them, and I was beginning to worry that the Pleiadians had forsaken us. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!csa2.lbl.gov!sichase From: sichase@csa2.lbl.gov (SCOTT I CHASE) Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Bosonic Transport Message-ID: <24436@dog.ee.lbl.gov> Date: 7 Jul 92 19:26:35 GMT References: <24328@dog.ee.lbl.gov> Reply-To: sichase@csa2.lbl.gov Distribution: na Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA Lines: 39 Xref: ns-mx alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1883 sci.physics:23451 alt.alien.visitors:6864 NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.197 News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4 In article , jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) writes... >In article 24328@dog.ee.lbl.gov, sichase@csa3.lbl.gov (SCOTT I CHASE) writes: >>>jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) writes: >>>|> Greatly simplifying the physics, we can say that fermions can only get >>>|> so close to one another >>the effect which you describe (variously called "Pauli pressure", >>"degeneracy pressure", "wave-function antisymmetrization","fermionic repulsion". >>and a host of other names) does not preclude fermions from being arbitrarily >>close in phase space for short times, although it decreases the probability. > >Bear with me here. I could discuss this in terms of QED, but lose much of the >intended audience. Simplification here means eliminating discussion in terms >of probabilities. I am trying to avoid a physics lecture and focus on some lines >of speculation that while probably unsound may lead to some interesting ideas. > >If we have a lot of trouble debunking such a thought experiment, we might learn >something. I had no problem debunking the idea - but I won't convince you if you tell me that we must discuss the idea without using physics. Furthermore, if your ideas are unsound, then they are not likely to lead to interesting ideas, only interesting fictions. In a part of your post which I deleted to save space, you bring up tunnelling. From what you described, your idea was based upon the properties of bosons. This has nothing to do with tunnelling. Finally, the whole idea is junked by the fact that you can't turn off the electromagnetic repulsion between the surfaces of macroscopic objects. That's what keeps objects from interpenetrating in the first place. It has nothing to do with spin, statistics, etc. -Scott -------------------- Scott I. Chase "The question seems to be of such a character SICHASE@CSA2.LBL.GOV that if I should come to life after my death and some mathematician were to tell me that it had been definitely settled, I think I would immediately drop dead again." - Vandiver Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!Sirius.dfn.de!fauern!fauna!cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de!uhschreg From: uhschreg@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Ulrich Schreglmann) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Immortality of Being and Contact -Pleiadians 11 Message-ID: Date: 7 Jul 92 18:26:35 GMT References: <61648@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (News Administration at faui45) Organization: Student Pool, CSD, University of Erlangen, Germany Lines: 11 Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10628 alt.alien.visitors:6865 sci.skeptic:26976 Huh! Did I get this right? Did you mean to tell if I ignore aging I won't age? OK, I'll try. BUT IT'D BETTER WORK, OR YOU GONNA FEEL REAL SORRY! :-) May the Cool be with You! (C)OOL mcmxcii Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Cary Collett) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Immortality of Being and Contact -Pleiadians 11 Message-ID: Date: 7 Jul 92 19:31:42 GMT References: <61648@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul7.171511.27363@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 45 Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10632 alt.alien.visitors:6866 sci.skeptic:26983 In article <1992Jul7.171511.27363@m.cs.uiuc.edu> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu writes: >This is a relief. Its been a while since we heard from them, and >I was beginning to worry that the Pleiadians had forsaken us. You haven't been following the NASA 'UFO' and Larry King Live thread. Cary cary@mplode.lampf.lanl.gov (VMS) cary@dsirae.lampf.lanl.gov (unix) | | | * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ^ ^ ^ ^ / \ / \ / \ / \ === === === === XXXXX XX XX XXXXX XX XX XX XX XXXXX X X X X XXX XX XX XX X X XXX X XX XXX XX XX XX XXXXX X X X X XX XXX XX XX X XXXXX X XXXXX XX XX XXXXXX XXXXX An Extensive Air Shower Array at the Meson Physics Facility Los Alamos National Labs ____________________________________________________________________________ My opinions are my own, don't you dare give someone else credit for them! Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!ames!pacbell.com!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!JUTS!cd.amdahl.com!jjs40 From: jjs40@cd.amdahl.com (John Sullivan) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Powerful, Incredible teachings (was Re: Immortality...) Message-ID: Date: 7 Jul 92 20:34:25 GMT References: <61648@cup.portal.com> Sender: netnews@ccc.amdahl.com Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA Lines: 21 Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10634 alt.alien.visitors:6867 sci.skeptic:26987 Don_-_Showen@cup.portal.com wrote: >Here is the Connecting Link Magazine Issue 11 Pleiadian article. A great >advertisement for my one hour, eighteen session, hot tub, hyperventilating >process. >... >Only one in ten of my clients is men. >... >BTW, I counsel 10 to 20 of these hyperventilating sessions a week and I have >been doing it for over 15 years. >... >So I am starting a Pleiadian Group List for those who would like to ask >questions, make comments and learn more about these powerful, incredible >teachings. Personally, I'd just like to learn how to get to spend 9-18 hours a week in a hot tub with naked women. That sounds like a powerful, incredible secret to me. -- John Sullivan, Engineer/Computer Development. Email: jjs40@cd.amdahl.com. Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA. Phone: (408)746-4688. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!gumby!destroyer!ubc-cs!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani From: spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: ALF Message-ID: <1992Jul7.202326.3453@mprgate.mpr.ca> Date: 7 Jul 92 20:23:26 GMT References: <1992Jul3.031423.28061@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> Sender: news@mprgate.mpr.ca Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada Lines: 25 In article , revpk@cellar.org (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano) writes: |> hamiltl@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Leon Hamilton) writes: |> |> > I'd just like to say that I think ALF is the is the most deadlist cool |> > alien ever created. No even E.T. comes close. Gordon Shumway is the |> > best. |> |> Naw, my vote goes for the Mugwumps in 'Naked Lunch.' |> Yeah. I'll have to agree with you on that. Let's see ALF exude 2 kinds of intoxicating substances when he likes what you write. |> |> Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano revpk@cellar.org [sig deleted] -- *********************************************************************** | Leonard E. Spani | //!?\\ | (disclaimer-p) | | spani@mprgate.mpr.ca | \\?!// | t | *********************************************************************** Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!princeton!phoenix.Princeton.EDU!ydobyns From: ydobyns@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (York H. Dobyns) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Wormholes: was Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers! Summary: Stick to good physics in the refutations, please Message-ID: <1992Jul7.194942.15423@Princeton.EDU> Date: 7 Jul 92 19:49:42 GMT References: <1992Jul6.141902.910@cbfsb.cb.att.com> <1992Jul6.152510.28202@en.ecn.purdue.edu> <1992Jul6.194549.7009@uwm.edu> Sender: news@Princeton.EDU (USENET News System) Organization: Princeton University Lines: 76 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6869 sci.skeptic:26989 alt.paranormal:5364 Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU Nntp-Posting-Host: phoenix.princeton.edu In article <1992Jul6.194549.7009@uwm.edu> markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark William Hopkins) writes: >A second point absolutely everybody neglects: unless the ship is obtaining >its fuel from outer space in its path, it has to carry all its fuel on board. 1. Not "absolutely everybody" neglects it, although UFOlogists may tend to. See, for example, the proceedings of the AAAS 1985 Annual Meeting, which had a symposium on interstellar communication and travel. 2. The idea of picking up fuel from space en route has been kicking around for years--it's generally called a Bussard ramjet. >In that case, the initial mass of the ship + fuel IS EXPONENTIAL in the amount >of time expected to spend accelerating and decelerating!! True but not necessarily relevant. See below. >Compared to the fuel payload of the shuttle that (say) may spend a few minutes >in thrust, the fuel required for a ship in constant acceleration for a year >is e^(1 year/15 minutes) ... which comes out to about e^30000, which is a >1 followed by about, oh, about 15000 ZEROS! Which is why a chemical-rocket starship makes about as much sense as oars on an airplane. >If you use nuclear propulsion, maybe you can cut this ratio down to a more >reasonable 1 followed by 1000 zeros. Then you have it made! :) Define "nuclear". A NERVA-type motor (use a fission pile energy to heat up a propellant) only gets 2-5 times the exhaust velocity of a chemical motor, 10 at the far outside. An Orion-type motor, which is basically setting off nuclear bombs at the back of the ship, can attain an "exhaust" velocity orders of magnitude higher. Changing the mass ratio from 10^15000 to 10^1000 only requires a 15-fold increase in the exhaust velocity. Granted, 10^1000 is still impossible--but a 15-fold improvement over chemical propellents is only a tiny fraction of what's available. Serious proponents of high-speed interstellar travel most commonly talk in terms of antimatter as a power supply. I'm NOT talking about Star Trek style "warp drives", I'm talking about using the annihilation energy of a little bit of antimatter added to a lot of propellant to produce a relativistic plasma, which becomes the exhaust for a perfectly ordinary rocket. A mix of 10% antimatter to 90% matter gives your propellant an exhaust speed of 0.6c. Making the approximations 1g=10m/s, 1 year = 3e7 sec, c=3e8 m/s, this gives a mass ratio for one (subjective) year of 1g acceleration of exp(3e7 * 10/1.8e8)-1 = e^1.67 -1 = 4.3 to 1 (ratio of fuel to payload). 2 years of acceleration-- one to start, one to stop--raises the mass ratio to a difficult but not preposterous 27 to 1. This regimen gives you a cruise speed of .76c or so, not enough to get much benefit from time dilation, but still plenty to cross between nearby stars in much less than one human lifespan. Equipping a starship with this much antimatter involves a whopping investment of energy, but one that any reasonably developed civilization--one that has expanded into most of its solar system and is tapping a significant fraction of its sun's total energy output--can readily afford. (Estimated time frame for Homo Sapiens reaching this level, barring stupidity and depending on who you talk to, is about 500-5000 years.) The Bussard ramjet, which has no fuel limitations, is another popular approach to the problem; yet another is a lightsail craft, accelerated via launching laser. This has the virtue of leaving your motor at home, with the resources of a whole civilization to refuel and maintain it. Of course, you then spend most of the trip braking, and may still have to dive most of the way into the target sun's photosphere to stop. >Therefore you can almost certainly conclude that any extraterrestial ship >that may be present in our solar system for the purpose of exploration and >survey did NOT get here by travelling through the intervening space. I hope my discussion above has shown why this statement is not true. The problem with known stardrives vis-a-vis alien visitors is not impossibility, but the fact that all the methods outlined above, and any close relatives, are spectacularly conspicuous in the target system. There is no evidence of such a craft arriving in the Solar System any time since we've been alert enough to notice it, say 1700 or so. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!Malfera From: Malfera@cup.portal.com (Dan M Healy) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: MILLER BEER & ALIENS Message-ID: <61656@cup.portal.com> Date: 7 Jul 92 22:14:09 GMT References: <1992Jul07.023952.15894@mixcom.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 12 The commercial about the Greys drinking Miller is total disinformation... All the aliens i know drink Old E or St. Ives :) Malfera@cup.portal.com Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <906l+b-.sheaffer@netcom.com> Date: 7 Jul 92 22:14:24 GMT References: <61430@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul2.171505.9400@ryn.mro4.dec.com> <61582@cup.portal.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 25 In article <61582@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Tom R. >It is unfortunate that you don't comprehend the forth dimension. >It might be good if you listen to the words of the song The Age of >Aquaris by the singing group called the Fifth Dimension. I believe >they once sang it at a superbowl football game. I would answer your >question to the best of my of my ability if I thought you were the >least bit serious. You know, I think this guy *IS* another Gary Stollman! Welcome to the net! -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the table like a card cheat." - Martin Gardner (writing in "Free Inquiry", Spring, 1992) Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: K2 Report - Part 3 Message-ID: Date: 7 Jul 92 22:35:26 GMT References: <139011.2A568762@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 33 In article <139011.2A568762@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> ParaNet.Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (sm) writes: > > On June 15, 1989, a Phoenix Project Survey Team made a >preliminary investigation to locate the site and origin of the >mysterious radio transmission. The site was located and a >preliminary investigation was completed. > Just what kind of "mysterious radio transmission" was this? There *are* a lot of bizarre things on the shortwave: people reading strings of seemingly random numbers, beacons that repeat the same Morse Code letter over and over, etc. These things are officially a "mystery", but they clearly have something to do with intelligence gathering. A few years back, one East Bloc agent was caught Red-handed (pun very appopriate), writing down encoded numbers being broadcast from East Germany. (This was mentioned in "Puzzle Palace", a book about the NSA). So to jump to the conclusion that "space aliens" are involved just because you heard something strange on the shortwave is, well, perhaps a tad premature. -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the table like a card cheat." - Martin Gardner (writing in "Free Inquiry", Spring, 1992) Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!stepsun.uni-kl.de!sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de!efes.physik.uni-kl.de!kring From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Occam's Razor Message-ID: <1992Jul7.224257.24299@rhrk.uni-kl.de> Date: 7 Jul 92 22:42:57 GMT References: <1992Jul7.040643.25210@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Sender: news@rhrk.uni-kl.de Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany Lines: 24 In article <1992Jul7.040643.25210@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, wilbur@starfish.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) writes: >Who is Occams, and what about his razor? William of Ockham (or Occam, in Latin) was a medieval follower of St. Franciscus, and his razor is a way of thinking. It says: "Don't unnecessarily multiply entities", that is, if you have the choice between two theories which explain the same things but one of which uses more hypotheses than the other, you prefer the one with less hypotheses. Example: You see this posting. If you have the choice between two theories regarding its origin: 1. I posted it by typing the text into my keyboard, 2. I did it by changing bits telekinetically, Occam's razor tells you to prefer 1. because for 2. you need to assume the existence of telekinesis, whereas for 1. you only need to assume that I have a keyboard and an account, which hardly count as assumptions compared to the other one. -- -Caddy--(thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany)----- Hey, I found a new witty saying for my .sig! Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61667@cup.portal.com> Date: 8 Jul 92 00:47:10 GMT References: <61430@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul2.171505.9400@ryn.mro4.dec.com> <61582@cup.portal.com> <906l+b-.sheaffer@netcom.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 3 Dear Mr. Robert Sheaffer: Thanks you for the second flame. It all adds to the total fire. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <61669@cup.portal.com> Date: 8 Jul 92 01:12:53 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <61586@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul7.034822.21414@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 3 Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10636 alt.alien.visitors:6875 sci.skeptic:27003 Dear Wilbur: Yes I'm real and a few people know me. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <61672@cup.portal.com> Date: 8 Jul 92 01:20:29 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <61371@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul7.124948.20352@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 9 Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10637 alt.alien.visitors:6876 sci.skeptic:27005 Dear Timpson: Thanks for the flame. I believe you really don't want the answer to your questain but Arasia is a lady who is a walkon. Earth people are sometimes contacted by spiritual or space people and the Earth person volunteers to give up the use of their body so that the space person can use it to do a certain job. Arasis is the head and founder of the group that sponsored the July 4th activity. That's all folks. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: e: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61674@cup.portal.com> Date: 8 Jul 92 01:30:02 GMT References: <168181186B.LINSCOT@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 9 Dear Steve: There is one statement that you may in jest that may just be true. You said that the people on Jupiter were in the fourth dimension. They are in the fourth or higher dimension. The highest dimension I've ever heard of is the 10th. Venus is 5,000 years ahead of us in their developement mainly because we usually wipe our civilization out every 5,000 year and sort of start over. That's all folks. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ucla-cs!ucla-se!seashell!mitch From: mitch@seashell.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Perot for President Message-ID: <7574@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> Date: 7 Jul 92 17:11:23 GMT References: <1992Jul4.215930.8542@sbcs.sunysb.edu> Sender: news@SEAS.UCLA.EDU Distribution: na Organization: SEASnet, University of California, Los Angeles Lines: 29 In article <1992Jul4.215930.8542@sbcs.sunysb.edu> dtiberio@libws2.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes: > This document is brought to you by the volunteer association of the > People for Perot. H Ross Perot is a likely presidential candidate in the > 1992 election year here in the United States of America. He has shown the > clearest and most concise agenda, as well as proved that he will get the > job done, unlike the typical politicians that have proceeded to do nothing > and take our country nowhere in the past 12 years. If you care about your > country, register to vote in this year's elections and prepare for the > next revolution. Not since John F Kennedy has the United States seen the > likes of H Ross Perot. This may be your last chance. "Hi, I'm your paper boy sir. I'm here to fix the dishwasher!" "Avon Calling! I'm here to renovate your den." "Fire Department, Ma'am. I'm here to tune your lawnmower." "Hi, I'm a software salesman! I'm here to fix the government!" --Garry Trudeau -- DISCLAIMER: | Bob Mitchell "Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown | mitch@ea.ucla.edu "Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman | DOD#[classified] "Computers are ruining this country." --Al Bundy | 1987 VT700c Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!olivea!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line?? Message-ID: <61676@cup.portal.com> Date: 8 Jul 92 01:47:47 GMT References: <1992Jul7.034339.20402@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 11 Dear Wilbur: You asked what a Ley Line is. A ley line is a force that the chinese started studying thousands of years ago when they found out that certain areas of the Earth were suited for houses and other places were best for animal and other more suited for growing crops. They found that if a person lives in the wrong stop on Earth they would have bad health. The people in England have made great studies of ley lines and map them out. They many times place their churches on the same spots that were formerly the place where pagan temples were located. I started the collection because I had some information on floppy disk from a person called Shaari. I've not been able to post it yet. Shaari's info. was about ley lines. J.W. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Immortality of Being and Contact -Pleiadians 11 Message-ID: <61682@cup.portal.com> Date: 8 Jul 92 02:13:00 GMT References: <61648@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 4 Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10638 alt.alien.visitors:6880 sci.skeptic:27007 Dear Don: It's good to see you have started a new collection. May the force be with you. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ucla-cs!ucla-se!seashell!mitch From: mitch@seashell.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Gary Stollman (computer hacking) Message-ID: <7575@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> Date: 7 Jul 92 18:38:09 GMT References: <1992Jul4.071147.10064@anasaz> <1992Jul6.104516.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> Sender: news@SEAS.UCLA.EDU Organization: SEASnet, University of California, Los Angeles Lines: 20 In article rmm20@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Robert Mitchell) writes: =The author of GNU EMACS, etc. is Richard M. Stallman. =Please do not try to relate him to Gary... = = - Robert Mitchell =-- =UUCP: rmm20@juts.ccc.amdahl.com =DDD: 408-746-8491 =USPS: Amdahl Corp. M/S 205, 1250 E. Arques Av, Sunnyvale, CA 94086 =BIX: bobmitchell Shit! Now _I've_ been cloned! -- DISCLAIMER: | Bob Mitchell "Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown | mitch@ea.ucla.edu "Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman | DOD#[classified] "Computers are ruining this country." --Al Bundy | 1987 VT700c Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!batcomputer!reed!henson!news.u.washington.edu!raven.alaska.edu!acad3.alaska.edu!fsgaw1 From: fsgaw1@acad3.alaska.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: RE: K2 Report/washed Up Message-ID: <1992Jul7.182314.1@acad3.alaska.edu> Date: 8 Jul 92 02:23:14 GMT Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks Lines: 17 Nntp-Posting-Host: acad3.alaska.edu Interesting article to say the least. Never heard of the Phoniex Foundation but oh well. It seems mighty strange that this so called organization, after claiming how the world governments know about and are seeking out alien bases, is the only group able to find such a base. The US government with all its technology, scientific brains and equipment were unable to find this base near Quincy and _____ (bad memory). Another strange twist, if and alien base truely wanted to stay hidden, wouldn't its use its technology to prevent small UFO groups, and more so the World goverments from finding their hidden bases. Maybe they underestimated our brain capacity to think. Big Mistake. "Beam us up Scotty, we have found life more intellegent then ourselves." "Roger Captain, just as soon as I get this damn think to work." END TRANSMISSION------------ Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!psinntp!dg-rtp!aquila!harrism From: harrism@aquila.rtp.dg.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: MACRO CONSPIRACY ALERT Message-ID: <1992Jul7.211311.14040@dg-rtp.dg.com> Date: 7 Jul 92 21:13:11 GMT Sender: usenet@dg-rtp.dg.com (Usenet Administration) Reply-To: harrism@dg-rtp.dg.com Organization: Data General Corp., Research Triangle Park, NC Lines: 23 In article <10871@platypus.uofs.uofs.edu>, bill@prijat.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: |> In article <1992Jul7.042327.28387@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, wilbur@starfish.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) writes: |> |> |> |> Maybe there really is a base at DULCE, and now *they* are having us believe that |> |> this organization called the Phoenix Foundation (or whatever) has uncovered the |> |> real base in California. |> |> |> |> Excuse me, but isn't The Phoenix Foundation the group that McGyver works |> for on Monday Nights??? |> |> Well, if anybody could find a UFO base, I guess it would be him. WOW - THIS IS ALL COMING TOGETHER. WHAT WITH ARASIA, THE PHOENIX PROJECT, NASA, COVERUPS, MISINFORMATION, PEROT, AND NOW MILLER BEER, SEVERAL TV SHOWS. ALL THESE ISOLATED INCIDENCES ARE PART OF A MACRO CONSPIRACY. THEY REALLY ARE TRYING TO PREPARE US FOR THE COMING - OR COMING OUT - OF THE ALIENS! NOSTRADAMUS WAS RIGHT! THEY ALL WERE RIGHT! DON'T YOU SEE? IT ALL FITS TOGETHER NOW. I MEAN IT DID BEFORE BUT I CAN SEE IT NOW. MY GOD. BUT HOW MUCH TIME DO WE HAVE? ARE THEY REALLY FRIENDLY? THERE'S NOT MUCH TIME THEY'RE ALREADY HERE THEY HAVE TO BE AT LEAST SOME OF THEM THE REST WILL BE COMING SOON. SHIT. I GOTTA GO Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!male.EBay.Sun.COM!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr From: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) Newsgroups: sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Bosonic Transport Message-ID: Date: 8 Jul 92 03:39:31 GMT References: <1992Jul7.132607.1@vxdesy.desy.de> Reply-To: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Lines: 26 Xref: ns-mx sci.physics:23472 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1884 alt.alien.visitors:6884 NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com In article 1@vxdesy.desy.de, silverstein@vxdesy.desy.de () writes: >Once the >atoms of helium get close enough to each other, the effects of the individual >fermions in the atoms (the protons, neutrons, and electrons) become significant >and the electron shells repel. The bosonic properties only work at a more >macroscopic level (molecules in a liquid). > >So even if you took two cars and turned them both into bosons and aimed them >at each other at high speeds, I wouldn't want to handle the insurance claim... Thanks. This is is kind of thoughtful and informed response I was seeking. Now, can anyone think of a way by which two mass bodies can be put into states such that the electrostatic interactions would be avoided, in effect, made mutually invisible to one another electrodynamically, since that is what would seem to be required to make possible interpenetration? Incidentally, what are some responses to the second part of the original posting, on starship-cities? --- jdr@starflight.corp.sun.com, starflt@uunet.uu.net Jon Roland Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A, Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141 Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys From: garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: INVASION!!! Message-ID: Date: 8 Jul 92 00:57:36 GMT Sender: bbs@bluemoon.rn.com (BBS Login) Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024]) Lines: 10 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6885 alt.conspiracy:16506 WELL, IT HAPPENED AGAIN!!! I went just now to pick up Joan at her apartment, and the REAL Joan came out to greet me, but then she went back upstairs while I waited downstairs in my car, and then the CLONE came back and got in the car...I left her at "her" doctors office, and came back her here disgusted as hell to write this...I can tell from the voices, they are distinctly different in tone...This is a mess... This is from garys@bluemoon.rn.com who doesn't have his (or her) own obnoxious signature yet Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!isaac.its.rpi.edu!kasprj From: kasprj@isaac.its.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: Date: 8 Jul 92 04:30:07 GMT References: Reply-To: kasprj@rpi.edu Organization: The Big Wedge Lines: 8 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6886 alt.conspiracy:16511 Nntp-Posting-Host: isaac.its.rpi.edu In article , garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) writes: |> This is from |> garys@bluemoon.rn.com |> who doesn't have his (or her) own obnoxious signature yet ^^^^^^ Oh no! Do you mean to tell us that the CIA is trying to replace you with a clone of the opposite sex? Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: MILLER BEER & ALIENS Message-ID: <1d7ls5-.payner@netcom.com> Date: 8 Jul 92 04:26:15 GMT References: <1992Jul07.023952.15894@mixcom.com> <61656@cup.portal.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 18 In article <61656@cup.portal.com> Malfera@cup.portal.com (Dan M Healy) writes: >The commercial about the Greys drinking Miller is total disinformation... > > >All the aliens i know drink Old E or St. Ives > >:) > > Malfera@cup.portal.com Are you local tp portal? If you are, then something really odd is going on. The local greys seem to prefer St. Stans. There has just -got- to be a conspiricy going on here! :^) Rich payner@netcom.com Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sequent!muncher.sequent.com!shaun From: shaun@sequent.com (Shaun Sloan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: K2 Report/washed Up Message-ID: <1992Jul8.045425.26530@sequent.com> Date: 8 Jul 92 04:54:25 GMT References: <1992Jul7.182314.1@acad3.alaska.edu> Sender: usenet@sequent.com (usenet ) Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc. Beaverton, Oregon.. Lines: 26 Nntp-Posting-Host: sequent.sequent.com Interesting article. Using shortwave radio signals to triangulate the position of an alledged 'Alien Base'...Hmmm. Recently, I stumbled upon a huge OTH radar facility in South-Central Oregon (I'm assuming it's OTH) while camping. This thing was huge (maybe 2x5 miles of antenna arrays). I asked some of the the locals about it and they said...'Oh yea, they opened that about 2 years ago but then they closed it..Glasnost, I guess'..'It's supposed to be able to look thousands of miles out into the pacific'..'This isn't the main one..there's 2 more, but the main facility is in California..just over the border from Klamath' (For you non-locals, this means No. Cal.). Over the Horizon radar uses High Frequency (a.k.a shortwave) radio waves to detect moving objects far away (I'm no expert by any means). I consider myself open minded on this subject and tend to think there could be more to what we are being told (depends on who's telling the story:-).. But when I read that a "Mysterious Shortwave Radio Transmision" points to an "Alien Base" without any real justification.. I think that maybe preconcieved notions come into play. Its fun reading..though! shaun . s Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Cary Collett) Newsgroups: sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Bosonic Transport Message-ID: <+h7l6va@lynx.unm.edu> Date: 8 Jul 92 05:55:39 GMT References: <1992Jul7.132607.1@vxdesy.desy.de> Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 56 Xref: ns-mx sci.physics:23479 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1885 alt.alien.visitors:6889 In article jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM writes: > >Now, can anyone think of a way by which two mass bodies can be put into states >such that the electrostatic interactions would be avoided, in effect, made >mutually invisible to one another electrodynamically, since that is what would ^^^^^^^^^^^ Which do you mean? Static and dynamic are antonyms! And ES and ED are different in the effects they produce. >seem to be required to make possible interpenetration? > >--- > >jdr@starflight.corp.sun.com, starflt@uunet.uu.net >Jon Roland >Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A, >Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141 Well if eltrostatic interactions were avoided (I'm not quite sure what you mean, but I'll guess you mean negated or turned off) then whatever it is will disintegrate, since ES forces are what keeps atoms, molecules et cetera together. So it would seem that as soon as you avoid the ES forces your objects fall apart and then I suppose you can have them interpenetrate as much as you want. Cary cary@mplode.lampf.lanl.gov (VMS) cary@dsirae.lampf.lanl.gov (unix) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ^ ^ ^ ^ / \ / \ / \ / \ === === === === XXXXX XX XX XXXXX XX XX XX XX XXXXX X X X X XXX XX XX XX X X XXX X XX XXX XX XX XX XXXXX X X X X XX XXX XX XX X XXXXX X XXXXX XX XX XXXXXX XXXXX Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!pitt.edu!gvls1!tredysvr!cellar!revpk From: revpk@cellar.org (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: A Confirmed UFO Coverup Message-ID: Date: 8 Jul 92 04:20:19 GMT References: <1992Jul4.211256.22707@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Sender: bbs@cellar.org (The Cellar BBS) Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system Lines: 30 Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:27013 alt.paranormal:5367 alt.alien.visitors:6890 mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) writes: > _IUR_ editor Jerome Clark decided to delete several brief segments of > Overall's article incluting his comment: "While I disagree with Phil > Klass on most UFO cases, I am quite willing to give the 'bedeviller' > his due and acknowledge his good work on the Gulf Breeze case, > particularly regarding the [UFO] model and the house plans [used in > the model]. I recommend his _Skeptics UFO Newsletter_ to anyon > wanting to stay up to date on the skeptical view of Gulf Breeze and > UFOs." Clark also deleted another compilmentary reference. [_SUN_'s > editor understands how excruciatingly painful it would have been for > Clark to publish any such compliment in _IUR_.] Indeed. I recall that shortly after the MJ-12 documents were 'made public,' Jerome Clark wrote an article for the Whole Earth's "Fringes of Reason" book about saucer cover-up claims. Clark asserted that the documents looked genuine, apart from some "frantic" attempts by "veteran UFO-phobe" Phil Klass to discredit them. Well, history's had the last to say on the matter. Klass seems to have found solid evidence that the MJ-12 documents are a forgery (and BTW, forging top secret documents is a federal crime), and even Clark was forced to agree that the documents weren't as convincing as they'd originally seemed. At least when Clark eats crow, it happens in print. Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano revpk@cellar.org New Sig File Under Construction-- Light and Compact for your Usenet Pleasure. "The recent problem with the satellite retrieval managed to prove one thing; DeVries graduates really _do_ work for NASA." Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!odin!mad-celt From: mad-celt@odin.unomaha.edu (Andrew Patrick Booth) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: MILLER BEER & ALIENS Message-ID: Date: 8 Jul 92 08:20:13 GMT References: <1992Jul07.023952.15894@mixcom.com> <61656@cup.portal.com> <1d7ls5-.payner@netcom.com> Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha Lines: 33 payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes: >In article <61656@cup.portal.com> Malfera@cup.portal.com (Dan M Healy) writes: >>The commercial about the Greys drinking Miller is total disinformation... >> >> >>All the aliens i know drink Old E or St. Ives >> >>:) >> >> Malfera@cup.portal.com >Are you local tp portal? If you are, then something really odd is going >on. The local greys seem to prefer St. Stans. There has just -got- to >be a conspiricy going on here! :^) >Rich >payner@netcom.com That's funny. I always thought intelligent life forms drank Budweiser. :) But then again Miller Lite, it's it and that's that. ;) "After a long space flight, and you want to relax. It's Miller time." -- | Andrew P. Booth "Mad Celt" | "Read the SOUND News & Arts!" Now | | mad-celt@odin.unomaha.edu | available from ed@odin.unomaha.edu | | SOUND News & Arts Newspaper and Netzine | and gopher (odin.unomaha.edu). | | Newspaper Distribution Manager | - "Have you had a paroxysm today?" | Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!sctc.com!beede From: beede@sctc.com (Mike Beede) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers! Message-ID: <1992Jul8.122516.21846@sctc.com> Date: 8 Jul 92 12:25:16 GMT References: <2kFFNB1w165w@tsoft.sf-bay.org> <1992Jul6.112258.8246@uwm.edu> <1992Jul6.141902.910@cbfsb.cb.att.com> <1992Jul7.034020.19697@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Organization: SCTC Lines: 27 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6892 sci.skeptic:27018 alt.paranormal:5368 wilbur@starfish.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) writes: >In article <1992Jul6.141902.910@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, tke@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (thomas.j.epstein) writes: >|> In article <1992Jul6.112258.8246@uwm.edu> markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark William Hopkins) writes: >> Darn, gotta go, the aliens at the door will NOT go away untill I've at least >> looked at their stupid Antaries vacation condos flyer. >Yeah, I hate it when they do that. Usually, just as you're getting in the >shower they come around. And, they won't take no for an answer. Pushy little >grey skinned buggers. That's not nearly as irritating as when you're thinking about something and you suddenly start thinking ``beep.....beep....beep'' and it's that stupid ``ESP call waiting'' and they start asking you about pyramid-shaped permanent siding and ``are you thinking of making any monoliths around the house--our representive can call for a free estimate.'' There oughta be a law, that's what _I_ say! Mike the Saucer-like -- Mike Beede SCTC beede@sctc.com 1210 W. County Rd E, Suite 100 ------------------ Arden Hills, MN 55112 AKA: Mr. Spacely (612) 482-7420 Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61707@cup.portal.com> Date: 8 Jul 92 13:26:03 GMT References: <61430@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul2.171505.9400@ryn.mro4.dec.com> <61582@cup.portal.com> <906l+b-.sheaffer@netcom.com> <61667@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 6 Dear Mr. Sheaffer: I believe we have met before. If my memory serves me right you are the well dressed gentleman that I had the pleasure of interview a few months ago. We talked about your groups investigation of the TV preacher called Peter Popoff. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line?? Message-ID: <61708@cup.portal.com> Date: 8 Jul 92 13:32:17 GMT References: <1992Jul7.034339.20402@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <61680@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 4 I just tried to post the Shaari information from a floppy disk but nothing came through. I continue trying to post it and get some help from my friends. John Wiinston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!stepsun.uni-kl.de!sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de!efes.physik.uni-kl.de!kring From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: e: Ley Lines Message-ID: <1992Jul8.133132.12265@rhrk.uni-kl.de> Date: 8 Jul 92 13:31:32 GMT References: <168181186B.LINSCOT@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU> <61674@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@rhrk.uni-kl.de Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany Lines: 12 In article <61674@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >The highest dimension I've ever heard >of is the 10th. 11th dimension. So, now the highest dimension you ever heard of is the 11th. You don't have to thank me. -- -Caddy--(thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany)----- Hey, I found a new witty saying for my .sig! Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!cs.utexas.edu!torn!watserv1!watdragon.waterloo.edu!watyew!jdnicoll From: jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Wormholes: was Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers! Message-ID: Date: 8 Jul 92 14:33:55 GMT References: <1992Jul6.112258.8246@uwm.edu> <1992Jul6.141902.910@cbfsb.cb.att.com> <1992Jul6.152510.28202@en.ecn.purdue.edu> <1992Jul6.194549.7009@uwm.edu> Sender: news@watdragon.waterloo.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Waterloo Lines: 56 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6896 sci.skeptic:27021 alt.paranormal:5369 In article <1992Jul6.194549.7009@uwm.edu> markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark William Hopkins) writes: > >More to the point: it takes a year alone just to accelerate up to near the >speed of light at a constant 1G. > >A second point absolutely everybody neglects: unless the ship is obtaining >its fuel from outer space in its path, it has to carry all its fuel on board. >In that case, the initial mass of the ship + fuel IS EXPONENTIAL in the amount >of time expected to spend accelerating and decelerating!! > >Compared to the fuel payload of the shuttle that (say) may spend a few minutes >in thrust, the fuel required for a ship in constant acceleration for a year >is e^(1 year/15 minutes) ... which comes out to about e^30000, which is a >1 followed by about, oh, about 15000 ZEROS! True if you use absurdly small exhaust velocities in your reaction mass and absurdly high delta vees in the thought experiment. The Interstellar Medium poses problems for relativistic starships, so it is quite possible delta vees of more than ~20% to 40% of C are not reasonable for reasons other than fuel supply. A Daedelus-type system could have a Vex of about 10,000 km/s. To reach 1% of C, the required mass ratio is about 1.35 (1.82 if you want to slow down :). To reach 5% of C, one needs a mr of 4.5 (20.1). We can now conceive of systems with higher vlues of Vex. Mixing antimatter and matter such that the Vex is close to the delta Vee gives mrs of about 8 (for nonrelativistic flights). A am/m system with a max vee of 20% of C could get between the average pair of stars in our neighborhood in about a quarter of a century: not fast but within the lifespan of the fundraisers. Mass ratios go way down if you can use the ISM as an energy source or as reaction mass, of course. Ditto for externally propelled systems like light sails or paired dense bodies. Of course, the ISM is depleted in our vicinity: coincidence, supernova, depletion by prior interstellar communities or *gasp* are we quarentined? Take your pick (Dibs on the sn) >If you use nuclear propulsion, maybe you can cut this ratio down to a more >reasonable 1 followed by 1000 zeros. Then you have it made! :) Shoot your engineers. They are chosing stupid combinations of delta vee and Vex. >Therefore you can almost certainly conclude that any extraterrestial ship >that may be present in our solar system for the purpose of exploration and >survey did NOT get here by travelling through the intervening space. Note the proof-by-need: slow interstellar flight is 'impossible' so wormholes must exist. Maybe the universe isn't convenient enough to supply us with short cuts. I suspect we can conclude interstellar cultures are bloody wealthy compared to us, though. James Nicoll Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!galois!cayley!jbaez From: jbaez@cayley.mit.edu (John C. Baez) Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Bosonic Transport Message-ID: <1992Jul8.144510.17762@galois.mit.edu> Date: 8 Jul 92 14:45:10 GMT References: <24328@dog.ee.lbl.gov> Sender: news@galois.mit.edu Organization: MIT Department of Mathematics, Cambridge, MA Lines: 12 Xref: ns-mx alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1886 sci.physics:23491 alt.alien.visitors:6897 Nntp-Posting-Host: cayley In article jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM writes: >Bear with me here. I could discuss this in terms of QED, but lose much of the >intended audience. True if your intended audience consists of those who know sufficiently little physics that they'll be impressed. It's perfectly obvious to the physicists around that you don't understand quantum theory all that well, much less QED. I have nothing against uninformed speculation, and do it a lot myself, but there's no point in trying to pretend to be erudite at the same time. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Cary Collett) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: MILLER BEER & ALIENS Message-ID: Date: 8 Jul 92 14:16:21 GMT References: <61656@cup.portal.com> <1d7ls5-.payner@netcom.com> Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 56 In article mad-celt@odin.unomaha.edu (Andrew Patrick Booth) writes: >payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes: > >>In article <61656@cup.portal.com> Malfera@cup.portal.com (Dan M Healy) writes: >>>The commercial about the Greys drinking Miller is total disinformation... >>> >>>All the aliens i know drink Old E or St. Ives >>> > >>Are you local tp portal? If you are, then something really odd is going >>on. The local greys seem to prefer St. Stans. There has just -got- to >>be a conspiricy going on here! :^) > >>Rich > >>payner@netcom.com > > >That's funny. I always thought intelligent life forms drank Budweiser. :) > >But then again Miller Lite, it's it and that's that. ;) > > >"After a long space flight, and you want to relax. It's Miller time." Ack! Ack! ACK! You would think that beings so advanced would have better tast in beer. How about some Chinay ale, Pils im Stein or Guiness? Cary cary@mplode.lampf.lanl.gov (VMS) cary@dsirae.lampf.lanl.gov (unix) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ^ ^ ^ ^ / \ / \ / \ / \ === === === === XXXXX XX XX XXXXX XX XX XX XX XXXXX X X X X XXX XX XX XX X X XXX X XX XXX XX XX XX XXXXX X X X X XX XXX XX XX X XXXXX X XXXXX XX XX XXXXXX XXXXX Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Cary Collett) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: Date: 8 Jul 92 14:17:34 GMT References: <906l+b-.sheaffer@netcom.com> <61667@cup.portal.com> <61707@cup.portal.com> Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 30 In article <61707@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Mr. Sheaffer: >I believe we have met before. If my memory serves me right you are the >well dressed gentleman that I had the pleasure of interview a few months >ago. We talked about your groups investigation of the TV preacher called >Peter Popoff. >John Winston. What has this got to do with ley lines? Cary cary@mplode.lampf.lanl.gov (VMS) cary@dsirae.lampf.lanl.gov (unix) XXXXX XX XX XXXXX XX XX XX XX XXXXX X X X X XXX XX XX XX X X XXX X XX XXX XX XX XX XXXXX X X X X XX XXX XX XX X XXXXX X XXXXX XX XX XXXXXX XXXXX An Extensive Air Shower Array at the Meson Physics Facility Los Alamos National Labs ____________________________________________________________________________ My opinions are my own, don't you dare give someone else credit for them! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!mips!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Cary Collett) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line?? Message-ID: Date: 8 Jul 92 14:19:41 GMT References: <1992Jul7.034339.20402@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <61680@cup.portal.com> <61708@cup.portal.com> Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 30 In article <61708@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >I just tried to post the Shaari information from a floppy disk but >nothing came through. I continue trying to post it and get some help from my >friends. >John Wiinston. What the hell has this to do with ley lines? You know that line that starts with 'Subject:'.... Cary cary@mplode.lampf.lanl.gov (VMS) cary@dsirae.lampf.lanl.gov (unix) XXXXX XX XX XXXXX XX XX XX XX XXXXX X X X X XXX XX XX XX X X XXX X XX XXX XX XX XX XXXXX X X X X XX XXX XX XX X XXXXX X XXXXX XX XX XXXXXX XXXXX An Extensive Air Shower Array at the Meson Physics Facility Los Alamos National Labs ____________________________________________________________________________ My opinions are my own, don't you dare give someone else credit for them! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!gumby!yale!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!stepsun.uni-kl.de!sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de!efes.physik.uni-kl.de!kring From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Nasa Video & Occam's Razor Message-ID: <1992Jul8.140235.14281@rhrk.uni-kl.de> Date: 8 Jul 92 14:02:35 GMT References: <138950.2A53CF08@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <1992Jul6.162137.19081@rhrk.uni-kl.de> <9246@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> Sender: news@rhrk.uni-kl.de Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany Lines: 30 In article <9246@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au>, rhys@cs.uq.oz.au (Rhys Weatherley) writes: >Sadly, Occam's Razor can more of a hindrance than a help in situations like >this (don't get me wrong - I'm a great proponent of Occam's Razor). The >skeptics point at the Razor and the video and say "it is ice, because that is >the simplest explanation". No, they say "it is *probably* ice, because that is the simplest explanation". (Or, if they are into sloppy speaking, "it is ice.") >The skeptics official view then goes on record >against any effort of the other side to do further follow-up work to see if >indeed the simple explanation is not the right one (or if it is the right one >after all). The researchers who wish to do follow-up work get buried under >"expert skeptic opinion", and the truth remains hidden. You can't have everything. Either you dismiss real things as not real or you end up wasting your time with running after phantoms. As it is, there are both sorts of people, so perhaps the damage is not too large. >To the skeptics and those who take a skeptic's word as gospel: it would be >well to remember that simple does not equal right. Right. Besides: one should never take anyone's words as gospel (not even the gospels'). Imagine a skeptic with totally uncritical followers! (shudder) -- -Caddy--(thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany)----- Hey, I found a new witty saying for my .sig! Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!ieunet!tcdcs!unix1.tcd.ie!ewillims From: ewillims@unix1.tcd.ie (Emma Williams) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line?? Message-ID: Date: 8 Jul 92 15:33:41 GMT References: <1992Jul7.034339.20402@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <61676@cup.portal.com> Sender: usenet@cs.tcd.ie (NN required at ashe.cs.tcd.ie) Organization: Trinity College, Dublin Lines: 28 Nntp-Posting-Host: unix1.tcd.ie In <61676@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >lives in the wrong stop on Earth they would have bad health. The people >in England have made great studies of ley lines and map them out. They >many times place their churches on the same spots that were formerly >the place where pagan temples were located. I started the collection Well, these areas of energy weren't always the "places where pagan temples were located". In most cases, there had just been a standing stone or a small shrine or a crossing of two tracks (both, supposedly on straight ley lines themselves) or an area of high ground looking over the surrounding countryside. The medieval english did build their churches on these same spots because they were respected in folklore, not only because there had been shrines there. Also, wouldn't you want to build your church on an area of higher ground so it could be seen widely and be nearer to God? EMMA. ____________________________________________________________________ | Emma Williams | Dad, I guess you're wondering why | | ewillims@unix1.tcd.ie | I'm ringing you..--Calvin & Hobbes | | | (eller Steen og Stoffer :-> ) | |____________________________|_____________________________________| Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Cary Collett) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: MILLER BEER & ALIENS Message-ID: <7z7lgh+@lynx.unm.edu> Date: 8 Jul 92 15:56:15 GMT References: <1d7ls5-.payner@netcom.com> Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 10 > >Ack! Ack! ACK! You would think that beings so advanced would have >better tast in beer. How about some Chinay ale, Pils im Stein or Guiness? ^ Should be Chimay ale, sorry. Cary To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Cary Collett) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: e: Ley Lines Message-ID: <8z7lj#-@lynx.unm.edu> Date: 8 Jul 92 15:57:51 GMT References: <168181186B.LINSCOT@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU> <61674@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul8.133132.12265@rhrk.uni-kl.de> Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 46 In article <1992Jul8.133132.12265@rhrk.uni-kl.de> kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring) writes: >In article <61674@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >>The highest dimension I've ever heard >>of is the 10th. > >11th dimension. > >So, now the highest dimension you ever heard of is the 11th. >You don't have to thank me. > >-- >-Caddy--(thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany)----- >Hey, I found a new witty saying for my .sig! Well add 15 more. In some superstring theories (mostly debunked now, I think) there are 26 dimensions. Cary cary@mplode.lampf.lanl.gov (VMS) cary@dsirae.lampf.lanl.gov (unix) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ^ ^ ^ ^ / \ / \ / \ / \ === === === === XXXXX XX XX XXXXX XX XX XX XX XXXXX X X X X XXX XX XX XX X X XXX X XX XXX XX XX XX XXXXX X X X X XX XXX XX XX X XXXXX X XXXXX XX XX XXXXXX XXXXX Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!husc-news.harvard.edu!husc8!mcirvin From: mcirvin@husc8.harvard.edu (Mcirvin) Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Bosonic Transport Message-ID: Date: 8 Jul 92 16:06:15 GMT References: <1992Jul1.144948.1@vxdesy.desy.de> <1992Jul7.132607.1@vxdesy.desy.de> Lines: 18 Xref: ns-mx alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1887 sci.physics:23494 alt.alien.visitors:6905 Nntp-Posting-Host: husc8.harvard.edu silverstein@vxdesy.desy.de writes: [reasonable objections deleted] >So even if you took two cars and turned them both into bosons and aimed them >at each other at high speeds, I wouldn't want to handle the insurance claim... Let me add something that I don't think has been brought up yet: you don't need to do align all the spins in a system in some special way to "make it a boson." A system made of an even number of spin-1/2 fermions, for instance, has in general some superposition of different integer spins, so it's a boson in any case. You may be a boson right now (assuming that there's some way of unambiguously counting your atoms). There's nothing special associated with this. -- Matt McIrvin, grad student, Dept. of Physics, Harvard University Internet: mcirvin@husc.harvard.edu Eater of cheese Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!triton.unm.edu!egates From: egates@triton.unm.edu (elinor louisea abdalla palmera hendrickson gatesickson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: MILLER BEER & ALIENS Message-ID: Date: 8 Jul 92 16:11:28 GMT References: <1992Jul07.023952.15894@mixcom.com> <61656@cup.portal.com> <1d7ls5-.payner@netcom.com> Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 25 In article <1d7ls5-.payner@netcom.com> payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes: >In article <61656@cup.portal.com> Malfera@cup.portal.com (Dan M Healy) writes: >>The commercial about the Greys drinking Miller is total disinformation... >> >> >>All the aliens i know drink Old E or St. Ives >> >>:) >> >> Malfera@cup.portal.com > >Are you local tp portal? If you are, then something really odd is going >on. The local greys seem to prefer St. Stans. There has just -got- to >be a conspiricy going on here! :^) > > >Rich > >payner@netcom.com > > Hey, all the greys I know (and thats lots since NM is grand central station for aliens) drink Guiness! Ellie Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!mips!sdd.hp.com!caen!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!parsifal.umkc.edu!cstp.umkc.edu!rdale From: rdale@cstp.umkc.edu Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: A Confirmed UFO Coverup Message-ID: <1992Jul8.113259.1@cstp.umkc.edu> Date: 8 Jul 92 17:32:59 GMT References: <1992Jul4.211256.22707@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Sender: root@parsifal.umkc.edu (Parsifal Administration) Organization: UM - Kansas City, Computer Science Lines: 19 Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:27029 alt.paranormal:5370 alt.alien.visitors:6907 > Well, history's had the last to say on the matter. Klass seems to > have found solid evidence that the MJ-12 documents are a forgery (and BTW, > forging top secret documents is a federal crime), and even Clark was forced > to agree that the documents weren't as convincing as they'd originally > seemed. Can this be found somewhere on a BBS-downloadable ASCII text file? (Is ASCII text file redundant?) But this is *obviously* government misinformation!!!! Come on, people! The lack of evidence should be PROOF! Remember spontaneous generation! Well, the reverse is true with UFO evidence! When it's not there, the government has taken it! Okay, I'll admit, there may be *something* going on. My best guess is probably some sort of government experiments, and calling it an alien UFO is just a convenient front. By focussing the attention on the "UFO coverup", the government can go about their business doing whatever it is they're doing. It's great sleight of hand! Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Cary Collett) Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Bosonic Transport Message-ID: Date: 8 Jul 92 16:59:00 GMT References: <1992Jul7.132607.1@vxdesy.desy.de> Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 42 Xref: ns-mx alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1888 sci.physics:23500 alt.alien.visitors:6908 In article mcirvin@husc8.harvard.edu (Mcirvin) writes: >Let me add something that I don't think has been brought up yet: you don't >need to do align all the spins in a system in some special way to "make it >a boson." A system made of an even number of spin-1/2 fermions, for >instance, has in general some superposition of different integer spins, so >it's a boson in any case. You may be a boson right now (assuming that >there's some way of unambiguously counting your atoms). There's nothing >special associated with this. > >-- >Matt McIrvin, grad student, Dept. of Physics, Harvard University >Internet: mcirvin@husc.harvard.edu Eater of cheese I think the real point here is that quantum effects almost never manifest themselves on a macroscopic scale. So things like the Pauli Exclusion Principle and Heisenburg Uncertainty don't come into play in a manner which we can readily observe, which IMHO is a good thing. While handy things like electrostatic replusion (and attraction of course) do, which IMO is also a good thing. Cary cary@mplode.lampf.lanl.gov (VMS) cary@dsirae.lampf.lanl.gov (unix) XXXXX XX XX XXXXX XX XX XX XX XXXXX X X X X XXX XX XX XX X X XXX X XX XXX XX XX XX XXXXX X X X X XX XXX XX XX X XXXXX X XXXXX XX XX XXXXXX XXXXX An Extensive Air Shower Array at the Meson Physics Facility Los Alamos National Labs ____________________________________________________________________________ My opinions are my own, don't you dare give someone else credit for them! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rice!RICEVM1.RICE.EDU!LINSCOT From: LINSCOT@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU (Stephen M. Linscott) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: e: Ley Lines Message-ID: <1681EAD35.LINSCOT@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU> Date: 8 Jul 92 17:18:40 GMT References: <168181186B.LINSCOT@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU> <61674@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@rice.edu (News) Organization: Rice University Lines: 17 In article <61674@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > >Dear Steve: >There is one statement that you may in jest that may just be true. You >said that the people on Jupiter were in the fourth dimension. They are in >the fourth or higher dimension. The highest dimension I've ever heard >of is the 10th. >That's all folks. >John Winston. John - Why are you limiting yourself to 10 dimensions? I have heard of fluid dynamics programs with 100-dimension arrays. Also, as mentioned by another poster, I hope you appreciate the difference between jesting and flaming! - Steve - Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: MILLER BEER & ALIENS Message-ID: <727l6j.payner@netcom.com> Date: 8 Jul 92 17:12:15 GMT References: <1d7ls5-.payner@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 45 In article cary@carina.unm.edu (Cary Collett) writes: >In article mad-celt@odin.unomaha.edu (Andrew Patrick Booth) writes: >>payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes: >> >>>In article <61656@cup.portal.com> Malfera@cup.portal.com (Dan M Healy) writes: >>>>The commercial about the Greys drinking Miller is total disinformation... >>>> >>>>All the aliens i know drink Old E or St. Ives >>>> >> >>>Are you local tp portal? If you are, then something really odd is going >>>on. The local greys seem to prefer St. Stans. There has just -got- to >>>be a conspiricy going on here! :^) >> >>>Rich >> >>>payner@netcom.com >> >> >>That's funny. I always thought intelligent life forms drank Budweiser. :) >> >>But then again Miller Lite, it's it and that's that. ;) >> >> >>"After a long space flight, and you want to relax. It's Miller time." > >Ack! Ack! ACK! You would think that beings so advanced would have >better tast in beer. How about some Chinay ale, Pils im Stein or Guiness? It's hard to get a good stout around here. There is a bar downtown with Guiness on draft, but it's hard to get them to go... :^) Chinay ale? Never tried it. Wherefore can it be found? >Cary > >cary@mplode.lampf.lanl.gov (VMS) >cary@dsirae.lampf.lanl.gov (unix) Rich payner@netcom.com > Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!rutgers!noao!arizona.edu!hep7.physics.arizona.edu!wallin From: wallin@hep7.physics.arizona.edu (Tripp Wallin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: MILLER BEER & ALIENS Message-ID: <1992Jul8.110704.3466@arizona.edu> Date: 8 Jul 92 18:06:59 GMT References: <1992Jul07.023952.15894@mixcom.com> <61656@cup.portal.com> <1d7ls5-.payner@netcom.com> Distribution: world,local Lines: 42 Nntp-Posting-Host: hep7.physics.arizona.edu In article , mad-celt@odin.unomaha.edu (Andrew Patrick Booth) writes: |> payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes: |> |> >In article <61656@cup.portal.com> Malfera@cup.portal.com (Dan M Healy) writes: |> >>The commercial about the Greys drinking Miller is total disinformation... |> >> |> >> |> >>All the aliens i know drink Old E or St. Ives |> >> |> >>:) |> >> |> >> Malfera@cup.portal.com |> |> >Are you local tp portal? If you are, then something really odd is going |> >on. The local greys seem to prefer St. Stans. There has just -got- to |> >be a conspiricy going on here! :^) |> |> |> >Rich |> |> >payner@netcom.com |> |> |> That's funny. I always thought intelligent life forms drank Budweiser. :) |> |> But then again Miller Lite, it's it and that's that. ;) |> |> |> "After a long space flight, and you want to relax. It's Miller time." |> -- |> | Andrew P. Booth "Mad Celt" | "Read the SOUND News & Arts!" Now | |> | mad-celt@odin.unomaha.edu | available from ed@odin.unomaha.edu | |> | SOUND News & Arts Newspaper and Netzine | and gopher (odin.unomaha.edu). | |> | Newspaper Distribution Manager | - "Have you had a paroxysm today?" | Thats funny last night when me and a couple of greys were sitting around the house discussing the fate of humankind I would have sworn they were drinking Keystone (it seems aliens have bad taste in alchol.). Tripp Wallin Physics and Math Undergradate and Laugher at Gary Stollman Posts wallin@hep4.physics.arizona.edu Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!news From: STONE@Zeus.unomaha.edu (Travis R. Stone) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Phoenix Foundation Message-ID: <1992Jul8.185305.23264@news.unomaha.edu> Date: 8 Jul 92 18:53:05 GMT Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha Lines: 13 X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11 Pardon me, but isn't the Phoenix Foundation the outfit MacGyver works for?... Now we know why the duct-tape-toting bugger is so clever...He's a professional Underground-Alien- Base dowser! :-) T.R. Stone University of Nebraska-Omaha Home of the Toughest Organic Chemistry Instructors in the Galaxy (aboveground OR under.) Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!news From: STONE@Zeus.unomaha.edu (Travis R. Stone) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Miller Greys?..Not All of 'Em Message-ID: <1992Jul8.190431.23378@news.unomaha.edu> Date: 8 Jul 92 19:04:31 GMT Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha Lines: 11 X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11 I can't really say about the majority, but the Greys I bumped into in the local redneck farmer bar back in my hometown frowned at me most strenuously when I referred to Budweiser as "Buttwiper". Touchy little bastards. T.R. Stone University of Nebraska-Omaha Home of the Toughest Organic Chemistry Instructors in the Galaxy (both before AND after they've had their ice-cold Buds!) Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!gumby!destroyer!ubc-cs!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani From: spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: RE: K2 Report/washed Up Message-ID: <1992Jul8.185748.16084@mprgate.mpr.ca> Date: 8 Jul 92 18:57:48 GMT References: <1992Jul7.182314.1@acad3.alaska.edu> Sender: news@mprgate.mpr.ca Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada Lines: 41 In article <1992Jul7.182314.1@acad3.alaska.edu>, fsgaw1@acad3.alaska.edu writes: |> Interesting article to say the least. Never heard of the Phoniex |> Foundation but oh well. It seems mighty strange that this so called |> organization, after claiming how the world governments know about and are |> seeking out alien bases, is the only group able to find such a base. The US |> government with all its technology, scientific brains and equipment were unable |> to find this base near Quincy and _____ (bad memory). Another strange twist, if |> and alien base truely wanted to stay hidden, wouldn't its use its technology to |> prevent small UFO groups, and more so the World goverments from finding their |> hidden bases. Maybe they underestimated our brain capacity to think. Big |> Mistake. |> |> "Beam us up Scotty, we have found life more intellegent then |> ourselves." |> "Roger Captain, just as soon as I get this damn think to work." |> |> END TRANSMISSION------------ |> |> |> What I can't figure out is who is doing the road paving work. I can't see the aliens out there in hardhats paving the road, and if the government was doing the paving, then they would presumably know about the base. Has anyone seen the original copy of the K2 or Dulce reports that were posted? I would be interested to know what they look like complete with all the pictures and maps because I am curious as to how much money they might have spent preparing them (home desktop publishing aside.) If it is a hoax, is it an expensive hoax? -- *********************************************************************** | Leonard E. Spani | //!?\\ | (disclaimer-p) | | spani@mprgate.mpr.ca | \\?!// | t | *********************************************************************** Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!odin!mad-celt From: mad-celt@odin.unomaha.edu (Andrew Patrick Booth) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: MILLER BEER & ALIENS Message-ID: Date: 8 Jul 92 20:24:42 GMT References: <1992Jul07.023952.15894@mixcom.com> <61656@cup.portal.com> <1d7ls5-.payner@netcom.com> <1992Jul8.110704.3466@arizona.edu> Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Distribution: world,local Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha Lines: 21 wallin@hep7.physics.arizona.edu (Tripp Wallin) writes: > Thats funny last night when me and a couple of greys were sitting around > the house discussing the fate of humankind I would have sworn they were > drinking Keystone (it seems aliens have bad taste in alchol.). Well if they were getting it for free, then it's OK. Free beer tastes better.:) As to my reference to all intelligent beings drinking Bud, I was kidding. I don't think any mass produced domestic beer is that good(but it's cheaper). I like Carlsberg beer myself (brewed in Copenhagen). Sam Adams is good too. I haven't had the chance to try any of the previously listed local beers. Has anyone offered a Grey a Pabst Blue Ribbon or Red White and Blue. I'm curious about how bad their taste in beer is. :) I wonder when Greys will start the bar hopping scene. ;) -- | Andrew P. Booth "Mad Celt" | "Read the SOUND News & Arts!" Now | | mad-celt@odin.unomaha.edu | available from ed@odin.unomaha.edu | | SOUND News & Arts Newspaper and Netzine | and gopher (odin.unomaha.edu). | | Newspaper Distribution Manager | - "Have you had a paroxysm today?" | Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!odin!mad-celt From: mad-celt@odin.unomaha.edu (Andrew Patrick Booth) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Miller Greys?..Not All of 'Em Message-ID: Date: 8 Jul 92 20:41:49 GMT References: <1992Jul8.190431.23378@news.unomaha.edu> Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha Lines: 23 STONE@Zeus.unomaha.edu (Travis R. Stone) writes: >I can't really say about the majority, but the >Greys I bumped into in the local redneck farmer bar >back in my hometown frowned at me most strenuously >when I referred to Budweiser as "Buttwiper". >Touchy little bastards. >T.R. Stone >University of Nebraska-Omaha >Home of the Toughest Organic Chemistry Instructors in the Galaxy >(both before AND after they've had their ice-cold Buds!) Well now they hang out at redneck farmer bars, and drinking Bud. I guess I was right after all. ;) Remind me not to register in Organic Chemistry. :) -- | Andrew P. Booth "Mad Celt" | "Read the SOUND News & Arts!" Now | | mad-celt@odin.unomaha.edu | available from ed@odin.unomaha.edu | | SOUND News & Arts Newspaper and Netzine | and gopher (odin.unomaha.edu). | | Newspaper Distribution Manager | - "Have you had a paroxysm today?" | Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: A Confirmed UFO Coverup Message-ID: <777lt-_.payner@netcom.com> Date: 8 Jul 92 20:22:17 GMT References: <1992Jul4.211256.22707@m.cs.uiuc.edu> <1992Jul8.113259.1@cstp.umkc.edu> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 20 Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:27039 alt.paranormal:5372 alt.alien.visitors:6917 In article <1992Jul8.113259.1@cstp.umkc.edu> rdale@cstp.umkc.edu writes: > Can this be found somewhere on a BBS-downloadable ASCII text file? >(Is ASCII text file redundant?) It would be if there were no other way of encoding text. There is another standard, EBCDIC (Extended Binary Coded Decimal Interchange Code) which is used by a few computers on the net. I have been told that this is a good reason to use ASCII mode for ftp'ing text files. It does not seem to be popular. There must be a conspiracy in here somewhere? Your 'c' excercise for today is to write a EBCDIC to ASCII translator. Rich payner@netcom.com (these opinions are not my own, they are rented, and must be returned next weekend) Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!news2me.ebay.sun.com!cronkite.Central.Sun.COM!texsun!digi!jtisdel From: jtisdel@digi.lonestar.org (J. Michael Tisdel) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Nasa Video & Occam's Razor Message-ID: <1992Jul8.200813.5018@digi.lonestar.org> Date: 8 Jul 92 20:08:13 GMT References: <138950.2A53CF08@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <1992Jul6.162137.19081@rhrk.uni-kl.de> <9246@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX Lines: 22 No one is saying that the simplest explaination is the only one. The Razor simply states that the explaination with the fewest assumptions is the best. Ice: Ice is present in the shuttle environment. Ice is floating near the shuttle when camera is filming. Ice is blasted by reaction jet. UFO: UFO is present in the shuttle environment Alien culture built UFO. UFO travelled to this local etc. UFO is present near shuttle when camera is filming. UFO moves off during filming. The group of assumptions contained in the UFO present make it the 'choice non grata' according to the Razor. -- J. Michael Tisdel | Wheels within wheels in a spiral array jtisdel@digi.lonestar.org | A pattern so random and complex DSC Communications Corp. | Time after time we lose sight of the way ** Standard Disclaimer ** | Our causes can't see their effects -- Rush Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!psuvax1!uxa.ecn.bgu.edu!cfkfb From: cfkfb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Karl Bridges) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: MILLER BEER & ALIENS Message-ID: <1992Jul8.213811.16760@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> Date: 8 Jul 92 21:38:11 GMT References: <1992Jul07.023952.15894@mixcom.com> <61656@cup.portal.com> <1d7ls5-.payner@netcom.com> <1992Jul8.110704.3466@arizona.edu> Distribution: world,local Organization: Educational Computing Network Lines: 27 mad-celt@odin.unomaha.edu (Andrew Patrick Booth) writes: >wallin@hep7.physics.arizona.edu (Tripp Wallin) writes: >> Thats funny last night when me and a couple of greys were sitting around >> the house discussing the fate of humankind I would have sworn they were >> drinking Keystone (it seems aliens have bad taste in alchol.). >Well if they were getting it for free, then it's OK. Free beer tastes better.:) >As to my reference to all intelligent beings drinking Bud, I was kidding. I >don't think any mass produced domestic beer is that good(but it's cheaper). I >like Carlsberg beer myself (brewed in Copenhagen). Sam Adams is good too. I >haven't had the chance to try any of the previously listed local beers. >Has anyone offered a Grey a Pabst Blue Ribbon or Red White and Blue. I'm >curious about how bad their taste in beer is. :) >I wonder when Greys will start the bar hopping scene. ;) >-- >| Andrew P. Booth "Mad Celt" | "Read the SOUND News & Arts!" Now | >| mad-celt@odin.unomaha.edu | available from ed@odin.unomaha.edu | >| SOUND News & Arts Newspaper and Netzine | and gopher (odin.unomaha.edu). | Can you tell me whether the greys had a designated driver. Can you imagine running off the road at lightspeed. >| Newspaper Distribution Manager | - "Have you had a paroxysm today?" | Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!bronze!indyvax.iupui.edu!harvey From: harvey@indyvax.iupui.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,rec.food.drink Subject: Re: MILLER BEER & ALIENS Summary: Aliens said to prefer Chimay ale to Miller Lite 10:1, film at 11. Keywords: Chimay ale Miller Lite greys aliens Belgium monasteries Message-ID: <1992Jul8.174904.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> Date: 8 Jul 92 22:49:04 GMT References: <1d7ls5-.payner@netcom.com> <727l6j.payner@netcom.com> Sender: news@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System) Followup-To: rec.food.drink Organization: Indiana University Lines: 26 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6920 rec.food.drink:8324 Nntp-Posting-Host: indyvax.iupui.edu In article <727l6j.payner@netcom.com>, payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes: >In article cary@carina.unm.edu (Cary Collett) writes: >>In article mad-celt@odin.unomaha.edu (Andrew Patrick Booth) writes: >>>payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes: >>>>In article <61656@cup.portal.com> Malfera@cup.portal.com (Dan M Healy) writes: >>>>>The commercial about the Greys drinking Miller is total disinformation... [much deletia...] >>Ack! Ack! ACK! You would think that beings so advanced would have >>better tast in beer. How about some Chinay ale, Pils im Stein or Guiness? > > It's hard to get a good stout around here. There is a bar downtown > with Guiness on draft, but it's hard to get them to go... :^) > > Chinay ale? Never tried it. Wherefore can it be found? That's "Chimay" pronounced shee-MAY (accent on the second syllable). Made in some monastery in Belgium as I recall. Be careful when you pour it out, the last fermentation is done in the bottle so there is a yeast sediment. Any good bar with imported ales should have it. You can get it (and about 100 other brands) at the Union Jack pub in Broad Ripple, IN. There are probably zillions of places in California that have it. Follow-ups to rec.food.drink only, please. -- James Harvey IUPUI OIT Technical Support/Networks harvey@iupui.edu uucp: iugate!harvey bitnet: harvey@indyvax Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!anomaly.sbs.risc.net!kd1hz From: kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.risc.net (Michael P. Deignan (KD1HZ)) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,sci.space Subject: Re: NASA censorship! Message-ID: <1992Jul08.230103.19921@anomaly.sbs.risc.net> Date: 8 Jul 92 23:01:03 GMT References: <1992Jul4.063119.9412@anasaz> Organization: The Rhode Island Internet Systems Cooperative Network Lines: 20 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6921 sci.skeptic:27047 sci.space:31658 billy@anasaz (Bill Moore) writes: >Does anyone know why NASA is encoding the shuttle feed on Satcom 2, >transponder 5? That's the "raw" uplink to NASA direct from the shuttle. >Transponder 13 is still in the clear but that's the "packaged" stuff >NASA puts together for the news media. >Audio and video from the shuttle has been "in the clear" during every shuttle >mission for years so it was really a suprise when they started this. They're >using the same encoding system as CBS and ABC whcih means they're pretty >serious about it. That's cuz they want to be able to cut out the scenes of massive quantities of alien ships in Earth orbit. MD -- -- Dr. Michael P. Deignan (deg.pend.) / "Its okay dear, -- Domain: kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.risc.net / you can show me... -- UUCP: ..!uunet!anomaly!kd1hz / I'm a Doctor..." Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!news2me.ebay.sun.com!cronkite.Central.Sun.COM!texsun!digi!jtisdel From: jtisdel@digi.lonestar.org (J. Michael Tisdel) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Perot for President Message-ID: <1992Jul8.212521.5215@digi.lonestar.org> Date: 8 Jul 92 21:25:21 GMT References: <1992Jul4.215930.8542@sbcs.sunysb.edu> Distribution: na Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX Lines: 28 In article <1992Jul4.215930.8542@sbcs.sunysb.edu> dtiberio@libws2.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes: > > This document is brought to you by the volunteer association of the > People for Perot. H Ross Perot is a likely presidential candidate in the > 1992 election year here in the United States of America. He has shown the > clearest and most concise agenda, as well as proved that he will get the > job done, unlike the typical politicians that have proceeded to do nothing Man, this is worse than the Greys running the government! *What positon* has Herr Perot ever made a stand on? Oh well, forward this to a political board, please. > and take our country nowhere in the past 12 years. If you care about your > country, register to vote in this year's elections and prepare for the > next revolution. Not since John F Kennedy has the United States seen the > likes of H Ross Perot. This may be your last chance. > > > - David Tiberio > 6 Lodge Lane > East Setauket, New York 11733 > [..majority removed..] -- J. Michael Tisdel | Wheels within wheels in a spiral array jtisdel@digi.lonestar.org | A pattern so random and complex DSC Communications Corp. | Time after time we lose sight of the way ** Standard Disclaimer ** | Our causes can't see their effects -- Rush Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!usenet From: garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <1992Jul8.123819.15866@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Date: 8 Jul 92 00:57:36 GMT Sender: bbs@bluemoon.rn.com (BBS Login) Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024]) Lines: 10 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6923 alt.conspiracy:16550 WELL, IT HAPPENED AGAIN!!! Gary came to pick me (Joan) up at my appartment and I came out to great him. I had to go back up to my place to get a tampon and when I went back down Gary had been replace with a CLONE. I went with him anyway and had a great time. Gary (the real one) is a drag and his dick is all cut up. The CLONE is a real man and his dick isn't all in ribbons. This is a mess... This is from garys@bluemoon.rn.com who doesn't have his (or her) own obnoxious signature yet Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2 From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Gray Recipes Summary: glad you asked Message-ID: <1992Jul8.235553.13937@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Date: 8 Jul 92 23:55:53 GMT References: <1992Jul2.200313.1333@coe.montana.edu> Organization: AT&T Lines: 32 In article <1992Jul2.200313.1333@coe.montana.edu>, imsgjraq@sinc.oscs.montana.edu (Joseph Raquepas) writes: > Hey, what happened to all of those wonderfull gray recipes? > Things were just starting to get interesting in this group... > and then they stopped. I had layed out a huge "landing/welcome home boys" barbeque for the little bastards, er, um humanoids with two grays on the spit. I left a large sign on the ground stating that these were chickens I was 'cuing. A couple saucers came in the area to check it out but they wouldn't land. I was even yelling, "comon guys, these are CHICKENS". I ended eating them myself, hrummph, some partiers, fat chance I'll have another 'cue and invite them! [here's the barby recipe-hmmmmm] I marinated the little bastards('cause of the tough skin)overnight in lemon, garlic, vegetable oil, and red table wine(just a sconch). Ran the pit spike through their ass and out the little nostrils, put the motor on slow turn and kept 'em about 3 feet from the coals. After three hours of this(don't forget to refresh the coals), I applied Sammy Sauce(tm) to their much cooked and delightfully smelling bodies. Let the little bastards cook another half hour or so with the Sammy Sauce, and walla. The meat should be tender enough to pluck off without a knife. Serves 15 (damn spaceship). Bone appetite' P.S. I don't know what became of that nest of grays that was around my area, but I haven't seen them in awhile. I had to use the ones I had left in the freezer. I was hoping some would land for the barbeque:-) Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!kc From: Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: K2 Report - Part 3 Message-ID: <39534.190928216@kcbbs.gen.nz> Date: 9 Jul 92 10:58:54 GMT References: Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand Lines: 25 sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) 07 Jul 92 22:35:26 types-- >So to jump to the conclusion that space aliens are involved just because >you heard something strange on the shortwave is well perhaps a tad >premature That's about the 1st thing I wondered when I read the post.no more was seen about any characteristics of the transmissions.No frequencies given or if others had heard & or were told of them or indeed if they were directly related to Pilot peak. As for the aptly named Pilot Peak who has climbed the area.What about historic records & radio monitoring?. On radio monitoring those number stations are an interesting rebuttal to the 3 man leak posit. Or does Sheaffer have the good oil on who is responsible for these efforts & where. BTW-WHo is Larry Eckert?. **********************************************8 ARE ETOI SPACESHIPS SHY OR ARE THEY JUST WAITING TO SEAL THE ROYALTY DEAL? ****************************************************************************** ************************************************************8 Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!csc.ti.com!tilde.csc.ti.com!fstop.csc.ti.com!tidss1!alanj From: alanj@dadd.ti.com (Alan Jones,AMJ1,) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: A Confirmed UFO Coverup Message-ID: <1992Jul8.224801.11231@csc.ti.com> Date: 8 Jul 92 22:48:01 GMT References: <777lt-_.payner@netcom.com> Sender: usenet@csc.ti.com Reply-To: alanj@dadd.ti.com Organization: Texas Instruments, Inc. Lines: 22 Nntp-Posting-Host: tidss1.dadd.ti.com Rich Payne writes: >In article <1992Jul8.113259.1@cstp.umkc.edu> rdale@cstp.umkc.edu writes: > >> Can this be found somewhere on a BBS-downloadable ASCII text file? >>(Is ASCII text file redundant?) > >It would be if there were no other way of encoding text. There is another >standard, EBCDIC (Extended Binary Coded Decimal Interchange Code) which >is used by a few computers on the net. I have been told that this is a good >reason to use ASCII mode for ftp'ing text files. It does not seem to be >popular. There must be a conspiracy in here somewhere? > >Your 'c' excercise for today is to write a EBCDIC to ASCII translator. > But the phrase "ASCII text" *is* redundant - "text" doesn't always imply "ASCII", but "ASCII" does imply "text". --- sincerely, Alan Jones / Texas Instruments, Dallas, TX / email=alanj@dadd.ti.com Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61730@cup.portal.com> Date: 9 Jul 92 00:22:50 GMT References: <906l+b-.sheaffer@netcom.com> <61667@cup.portal.com> <61707@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 10 Dear Cary: You of course know that me talking to Robert Sheaffer about my interview has nothing to do with Ley lines. Mr. Sheaffer has been good enough to throw two flames at me so far about my identity and I was pointing out to him that I had interviewed and vidioed him for about 30 minutes a few months ago. I'll have to admit it had slipped my mind too. Mr. Sheaffer is a very good person to interview and he did conduct himself well. I'll have to admit that I do agree with what his group is doing. That's all folks. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: e: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61732@cup.portal.com> Date: 9 Jul 92 00:29:22 GMT References: <168181186B.LINSCOT@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU> <61674@cup.portal.com> <1681EAD35.LINSCOT@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 4 Dear Steve: Yes I will admit that was a mild responce. Thanks John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: e: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61733@cup.portal.com> Date: 9 Jul 92 00:31:34 GMT References: <168181186B.LINSCOT@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU> <61674@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul8.133132.12265@rhrk.uni-kl.de> <8z7lj#-@lynx.unm.edu> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 3 Dear Cary: I think you making fun of me. Are you a girl or boy. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: e: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61734@cup.portal.com> Date: 9 Jul 92 00:34:10 GMT References: <168181186B.LINSCOT@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU> <61674@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul8.133132.12265@rhrk.uni-kl.de> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 4 Dear Kring: The first teller of a story never has a chance. The 11th dimensiion. Well I never. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!gumby!destroyer!ubc-cs!alberta!kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!rutkows From: rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Chris Rutkowski) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Crop Circles in North America Summary: List of 1992 North American UGMs, including Crop Circles Keywords: crop, circles, UGMs Message-ID: <1992Jul8.211056.26797@ccu.umanitoba.ca> Date: 8 Jul 92 21:10:56 GMT Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada Lines: 71 Things were getting a bit silly in this newsgroup, so I thought I would change the thread somewhat. Let's see what the skeptics and believers have to say about the following: 1992 North American Crop Circles and/or UGMs Reported to NAICCR as of 8 July 1992 920426 Jonesboro, Georgia - a "formation" of crop circles, "exactly" like those found in 1991 in the same location, was discovered. Source: Rosemary Ellen Guiley; Vance Tiede 9204?? , New Hampshire - UGMs were found following a small local flap of UFO reports. Source: Rosemary Ellen Guiley; Vance Tiede 920506 near Edmonton, Alberta - a "space cookie" UGM was discovered in a meadow. It is a perfect circle, 6 metres in diameter. Its depth varies from 5 cm to 31 cm. Grass is growing straight up both inside and outside the circle. No tracks were found leading to the area. The UGM is not a sinkhole. Source: Gordon Kijek 9205?? Philadelphia, Pennsylvania - two crop circles were found in a cornfield just north of the Philadelphia city limits. Soil samples taken by a UFO investigator "showed no irregularities". Source: Steve Bernheisel on FIDONET 920627 Raeford, North Carolina - a circle of flattened grass was found in a hay field following a CE2 UFO sighting. A loud noise, "like a freight train", was heard, and two witnesses ran to look out their front door. A object "the size of a swimming pool", "like orange windows lla around it", was in a field about 300 feet away from their house. When they went to call other witnesses, the object disappeared. Source: Patrick Kirol on FIDONET 9206?? , Massachusetts - a small area of flattened cattails was found in a marsh close to a major highway and reported as a crop circle. Source: Tom Randolph on DEC COM via INTERNET 920701 St. Adolphe, Manitoba - nine "horseshoe-shaped" patches of flattened grass were found on either side of a brook in a Winnipeg suburb. Because of rece storms and heavy rainfall, lodging was thought to be the cause Source: Guy Westcott; NAICCR 920705 Hobbema, Alberta - two ovals of flattened barley were found in a field after unusual lights were observed descending to the ground. The largest UGM has a major axis of 47 feet. The crop is pushed away uniformly from the centers of the patches, but the centers are "clumped", like breaking waves. Barley inside the circles is "white", and devoid of colour. Source: Gord Kijek ***************************************************************** OK, these are the facts. What are the interpretations? (no marks awarded for discovering typos) -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca Royal Astronomical Society of Canada University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!bu.edu!taco!etcolber From: etcolber@eos.ncsu.edu (ERICK TODD COLBERT) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Ley Lines... Message-ID: <1992Jul8.235854.20036@ncsu.edu> Date: 8 Jul 92 23:58:54 GMT Sender: news@ncsu.edu (USENET News System) Reply-To: etcolber@eos.ncsu.edu (ERICK TODD COLBERT) Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos Lines: 17 Originator: etcolber@c00548-106ps.eos.ncsu.edu Just a note. There is a Role Playing Game out there called Rifts. It discusses Ley-Lines in a quite interresting way. While I am not one who believes RPG's are for real, I DO want to know where they got some of their information. Does anyone know of a book called "Bridge to Infinity?" I have heard it's "banned" in the US, but is available through a small company under a different name. This book refered to Ley Lines and their relationship to the sightings of "UFO's" Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!odin.unomaha.edu!jcitro3 From: jcitro3@odin.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: K2 Report/washed Up Message-ID: <1992Jul9.013224.26721@news.unomaha.edu> Date: 9 Jul 92 01:32:24 GMT References: <1992Jul7.182314.1@acad3.alaska.edu> Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha Lines: 9 I've never heard of the Pheonix Foundation (Mcgyver excluded). I do know that F-4's were never stationed at Beal (Spell) AFB. The F-4's could possibly have came from Castle AFB which is in central California. I question the credibility of the supposed Air Force personel who verified that the F-4's came from Beal. However, the report was a good read :) Joseph A. Citro III at UNO jcitro3@odin.unomaha.edu (WHO WILL PROBABLY NEVER COME UP WITH A SIGNATURE) Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line?? Message-ID: <61740@cup.portal.com> Date: 9 Jul 92 01:54:04 GMT References: <1992Jul7.034339.20402@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <61676@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 4 Well Emma: It sounds like you have a little of the truth there. I'll say a little more later on what your had to say. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line?? Message-ID: <61742@cup.portal.com> Date: 9 Jul 92 01:57:29 GMT References: <1992Jul7.034339.20402@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <61680@cup.portal.com> <61708@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 3 Dear Carey: This has a lot to do with Ley Lines. We'll finally get to the subject but I don't know when. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2 From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line?? Message-ID: <1992Jul9.020805.16222@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Date: 9 Jul 92 02:08:05 GMT References: <1992Jul7.034339.20402@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Organization: AT&T Lines: 4 In article <1992Jul7.034339.20402@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, wilbur@starfish.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) writes: > What the hell is a ley line, and who started that post?! > Princess Leya line of clothing, aka, ley line. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2 From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <1992Jul9.023815.16761@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Date: 9 Jul 92 02:38:15 GMT References: Organization: AT&T Lines: 17 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6937 alt.conspiracy:16556 In article , garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) writes: > WELL, IT HAPPENED AGAIN!!! I went just now to pick up Joan at her > apartment, and the REAL Joan came out to greet me, but then she went back > upstairs while I waited downstairs in my car, and then the CLONE came back > and got in the car...I left her at "her" doctors office, and came back her > here disgusted as hell to write this...I can tell from the voices, they > are distinctly different in tone...This is a mess... > Damn, how do maintain sanity! I have two hampsters and lately they have been acting weird. I mean, they eat, drink and stare at me, and they are always silent they never say anything. These two are much different than the other? two i had. Could they be walkins? Need to know, can't sleep nights. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!batcomputer!cornell!uw-beaver!news.u.washington.edu!milton.u.washington.edu!cruiser1 From: cruiser1@milton.u.washington.edu (Walter D. Pullen) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Subject: Preparing For The Earth Changes. Summary: Thoughts on what is going on, why, and what we should do about it. Keywords: Earth Changes Message-ID: <1992Jul9.061809.29762@u.washington.edu> Date: 9 Jul 92 06:18:09 GMT Sender: news@u.washington.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Washington, Seattle Lines: 306 Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10659 alt.alien.visitors:6938 alt.paranormal:5374 -- One of the most talked about issues in the paranormal fields, due to it's obvious massive ramifications, and unfortunately, one of the most anxiety provoking topics, deals with what is known as the "Earth Changes". In general, the Earth Changes refer to events, often catastrophic, that are going to happen in a trial period before a new era of long lasting peace and prosperity comes to Earth. Such events are said to include things like major earthquakes, pole shifts, extraterrestrial landings, large asteroids, major land areas sinking beneath the sea, photon belts, governmental upheaval, dimensional shifts, and numerous other things. Unfortunately, various spiritual groups, channeled entities, etc, conflict with each other as to what events are going to happen and when. And, since most people want to come though these great Changes in one piece, and not fall victim to various bad things that is said can befall one, many feel anxiety or fear about what's going to really happen at what time, and what they should do about it. Not all the things that are alleged to happen actually will, of course; and some are apparently feeding off the fear that people have in this area. One only needs to look at alleged events that never came to pass, such as the end of the world being predicted every few years by a particular Fundamentalist group, things like the "88 reasons why the Rapture will happen in 1988", people in Montana who predicted nuclear war would occur a few years ago, or some followers of a certain channeled entity who built underground shelters a long time ago to protect them from the "imminent invasion of the Lizzies", and so on, to see that there are scams out there and not everything that one hears in this matter is true. Nevertheless, most people fell that "something" major is going to happen within the next few decades. Therefore, I created this file as an attempt to describe what is going on, why it's happening, and what one should do about it, later getting on into the speculation about specific events and dates, although I must stress that these are just my views and one should always consult their own Inner Guidance. There is no doubt that Earth has come under great changes in the recent past. The world population is now at 5.5 billion people and has been increasing at a virtual exponential rate. Growth in this manner can't continue forever. Our technology has grown by an enormous factor in just this century. At the turn of the century the automobile and airplane hadn't been invented yet; now we are walking on the Moon and planning trips to Mars. One can only guess what will happen in the next 100 years. Only a short time ago, this was a planet divided between East and West, between Communism and Capitalism, in wars encompassing the world, in which just a button press could result in nuclear annihilation. Now, after massive political and social changes, communism has melted away, and the rest of the world is nearing a state of a new order in the world (which, depending on how it's viewed, can either manifest as a Government of the People or the People's Government). Looking at how the planet has been changing in the last few decades, one can see many positive and negative things. Just 20 years or so ago, about the worst problem facing our schools was people chewing gum and cutting in line. Now we have teen pregnancies, suicides, drug dealers, psychos of all kinds, people bringing guns to school, and so on. Our environment has fallen victim to overdevelopment, greed, and pollution; but yet many now realize the interrelationship of all species, and people and especially the younger generation are working to help the environment in a way unsurpassed before. Not long ago, the majority of Americans were immersed in a life of materialism, but after the revolutionary changes in the 1960's and the spread of the New Age movement in the late 1980's, many now realize a spiritual side to life. In short, the energies on our planet are rapidly speeding up, and both positive and negative manifestations seem to be increasing. It is this fact, this forming polarity, that is the main basis for the Earth Changes that seem to need to happen. In order words, there is a split forming in our population between people who are choosing a life of spirit, love, and understanding, and those who choose materialism, duality, and separateness. As the groups grow apart and separate in vibration, eventually a final split will be made and we will either literally or figuratively continue our evolution on two separate planes or worlds. An analogy of a college university fits this situation well. Each of us enter the school at a different quarter or year, with the ultimate goal of experiencing a full education. We all take various classes in various quarters. There are advanced students and lesser students, the advanced students being further along because they either work harder or because they enrolled earlier. Every year or so, there is a "graduation day", where those students who have obtained enough credits get to leave the school, to go on to earn a higher degree, stay and teach, or, having finished their education, enter the work force and do their real work they have trained to do. Similarly, in a macrocosmic sense, we souls enter this school on Earth in order to gain a full experience of the physical plane of Creation. We take on various incarnations (quarters) with various karmic debts to pay and goals to fulfill (classes). There are advanced souls and lesser souls, the lesser souls either not trying as hard (goofing off in class) or else they are younger and have less experience (Freshmen). Every few thousand years or so, there is a "gateway" (graduation day) where those who have advanced sufficiently may go on to a higher world, either to seek still further soul growth in a more advanced environment, to return back to a lower world to serve by teaching others, or, having reached their ultimate "enlightenment", do the work that they trained their soul for during all this time. The consensus seems to be that such a gateway is rapidly approaching, due to reasons presented earlier. There is talk of things such as a new era, the Aquarian Age, Earth entering the "fourth dimension", 1000 years of Peace, and so on. Those who don't go on will either stay on Earth while the rest go on to a higher world, or will be sent to another world whose vibratory level is where our planet is now (e.g. back to the beginning of the Piscean age, etc) while the rest remain on Earth which then enters a new higher state of being. (One further thing I might add is that after graduation in a college, summer vacation arrives, a period where one can put off their formal education, or rather, continue it in a more enjoyable way!) Incidentally, Solara and the Star-Borne 11:11 Doorway people talk about an earlier, similar gateway to non-dualistic realms a few millenia ago, through which those who were ready entered at that time. It is important for one not to get worried about whether they are going on or staying behind. Remember, some of us have just entered the human kingdom, and therefore going on before we have gained our full education would be counterproductive both to our own education and to those we would be joining (like having 1st graders in a 12th grade class). There is therefore nothing "bad" with staying behind or in being a less evolved "darker" soul, since they are simply younger in evolution. That evil person you see now may very well have been farther along than you were, when you were his age, and by rapidly accruing and dealing with bad karma through his actions, he may very well rapidly grow and be at a higher level than you, when his soul has reached the age yours is at now! Note also that some will choose to stay behind in order to not only finish their "education", but to get a more thorough education, e.g. a double degree. Remember, high school Juniors now will be Seniors next year, the most advanced of the lower school, while this year's Seniors, although entering college, will be the Freshmen of the higher school! Finally, although many may not realize it themselves, a significant number of people are here to serve, having descended to teach and help others ascend more quickly, and to send love to Earth to help her through her transition. And a certain number of the most advanced souls may still remain behind after the Changes to continue to help those in the 3D world. The state of loving the lower worlds, and being willing to be in them, is a characteristic of those of the higher worlds! Another important thing to remember is not to fall into the state of being elitist. Elitism is thinking of oneself as being "better" than others, or as thinking of yourself as an overly spiritual being at a much higher level than those lowly people who aren't going to go on to higher realms. Too often one can see otherwise loving people attack those who they perceive as lower, or else condescend to them by not so quietly pointing out to the world that they are at their "lower" level and someday after lots of pain and bad karma they will finally wake up. Remember, we are all One! And as the old saying goes, how we treat others, even our enemies, is how we think of our Creator, for we are all part of His body. The goal on the other side is to be beyond elitism, dualism, and other forms of separateness, where each individual can relate to others with harmony. As my friend Arasia of Antahkarana put it at a recent meeting: "When the ETs land, many of us could be surprised at how many Fundamentalist Christians *are* aboard the ships, and at how many New Agers *won't* be taken aboard!" There is only one thing that will determine how the Earth Changes will affect one: *vibration*. If there is any one thing you remember from this article, remember that last sentence! The rate of one's personal vibration will determine who stays and who has the option of going on. And when concerning yourself with spiritual growth or when seeking to raise your vibration, there are only two things one need do: Unconditionally Love, and the corollary premise of letting go of fear. That's all; so simple to learn, often so hard to do! This of course includes letting go of the fear of whether you *are* being unconditionally loving or not, and worries about whether or not the Earth Changes will be kind to you. Remember that one doesn't have to be an Ascended Master to graduate; as a friend put it, if one simply makes the *choice* of the path of Love over fear and separateness, that combined with any effort to actualize this, will be enough for one to painlessly go through Mother Earth's birthing process. People sometimes concern themselves with worrying about external changes as opposed to inner changes. For example, in trying to determine what parts of the planet are the "safe-areas", and won't fall into the ocean, be destroyed by earthquakes, etc, so they can move there. So many sources differ on this that you can't guarantee anything, and all that is accomplished is that one increases their anxiety and fear and thereby lowers their vibration. As Arasia put it: "Too often people spend so much time trying to find out *what* is going to happen and *when* it going to happen, that they are not actually *preparing* for it!" Remember, nothing will happen to you or anyone else if it is not in their karma; everything happens according to God's perfect will. Remember this if you choose to concern yourself with the "negative" aspects of the Earth Changes, such as alien invasions as opposed to friendly alien landings, etc. Remember that we create our own reality, and therefore, what we desire for others tends to happen to ourself by the law of attraction. So, if you want something, give it to others. If you want the environment to be kind to you during the Changes, be kind to the environment now! If one is hostile to others or to the Earth's environment, then by karmic law, can one expect to emerge from some earthquake unscathed? Again, it's important not to fear whatever may happen. Even if one is in a so-called "unsafe" area, that isn't necessarily bad. Just as Masters sometimes descend to Earth to help us out, some Light Workers are specifically called to lower vibrational areas so that they can do useful work there. As for what happens when the earthquakes and such hit the unsafe area, a few possibilities come to mind: (1) By karma one won't get hurt due to their high vibration. (2) Advancing beings such as extraterrestrials will intervene by "beaming up" most people during the worst of the Changes. (There *are* ships out there that can carry millions of people on board.) (3) Similar to the first two, one will learn or be assisted to levitate or teleport or something into protected realms. (4) Or finally, one will get killed anyway. Remember that death itself isn't necessarily a bad outcome, since we'll all be back, although of course it should be avoided if one has say in the matter. Many think that all the lower vibratory people will leave or die, but it could be the other way around if the New Age Earth is somewhere else. The actions of the Zeta Reticulan Grey aliens, in their creation of a Hybrid race that is the cross of our two species, in these important times, comes to mind. I suggested in an earlier article that some of us may incarnate in Hybrid bodies in future incarnations, and if that is so, we can't enter a Hybrid body until we leave our Human one. (Although the process would probably be more close to "ascending"; nevertheless, I just wanted to point out that although one should still take action if they percieve it to be in their best interest, what might at first appear to be bad isn't necessarily so.) A confession: It is possible that nothing significant at all will happen (in the physical sense, e.g. alien landings, pole shifts, etc), at least not for a very long while, and we should at least be *willing* to accept this option should it turn out to be the truth. Remember, we can't wait around for someone to come and save us and our planet - we have to be willing to do it all ourselves! I've heard various extraterrestrial races have the ability to completely repair our environment in a matter of days, but doing so wouldn't help us learn anything, and on the contrary would make us dependent on them. However, it is my opinion, and most of the reliable sources I know agree, that major things will happen in the next decade. Heck, major things have happened in the past decade! A friend of mind said that ultimately only God knows when, and the Biblical quote that the Day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night, when no one is expecting it, comes to mind. He even suggested that the actual itinerary of events is generally kept hidden from the public for a reason; that otherwise, we would all wait until the last year or month before getting our act together or starting the work we were meant to do! As for the subject of the actual dates when various changes will happen, I again must stress that there are many differences in this area. Nevertheless, I have noticed various different not unreliable sources turning up more or less the same things. The varied changes seem to fall into five time spans: (1) Some awakening or turning point is to happen around 1987 or so. This year already passed of course, and was marked by the Harmonic Convergence, the year they said we finally reversed our trends toward self-destruction, the spread of the New Age movement, and other things. (2) Some shift or opening is to occur around 1992. This of course is right where we are now. We had the opening of the 11:11 Doorway earlier this year. This is also the year of the 500th anniversary of the White Man's arrival in the New World. And as the Mayan/Incan prophecies state, after the White Man's arrival there would be a period of "500 years of spiritual darkness", before their calendar simply "ends" and a new era of peace begins. It's said that this date is the week of *July 26, 1992*! It will be interesting to see whatever happens then. I know of at least three different sources who tell of various events, from a dimensional Time Shift to Earth entering a photon belt. Columbus Day falls later this year, in October. (3) Some upheaval or transformation will happen around 2001 (or 1997, which is another date I've seen a couple of times, e.g. in the Bashar material.) This could be some sort of a governmental collapse or restructuring, or a major breakthrough in achieving peace on Earth. The Middle East area is often mentioned. Some say a pole shift will happen around this time (although for what purpose I don't know; i.e. how does a pole shift help us enter higher realms, unless it is connected to other things.) (4) 2012 or so seems to mark the major changes. This year pops up often. The 11:11 Doorway closes on Dec 31, 2011, and various other cycles end near this time. Perhaps this date will mark major land mass changes, or the time Earth merges into the fourth dimension. (5) Finally 2054 or so is the latest date one tends to find in this business. To this year is sometimes attributed the date of the 25000 year Equinox, and at this point, all the major Changes are said to be done and Earth is in its new era. It's my opinion that most of the above dates are variable, and that the various Changes will happen, either individually or collectively, when we are ready for them. Perhaps the extraterrestrials won't formally land until we make an effort to invite them, enough of us believe in them, or until we have developed spiritually or technically to their level. Remember that dates and events are not fated, and can change. It's said that due to the prayers and love many have been giving out since 1987, that many of the original cataclysms scheduled now no longer will take place, because there is no need for them any more! Perhaps it is possible there will be no separation of Earth's population at all, and we will all ascend together! This idea isn't so far fetched if one realizes the Unity and perfection of all things, and that this very concept forms the basis of the new world. Above all remember that Earth Changes are not about events happening to us, but rather about us making things happen on Earth! It is our choice as to what we desire our future reality to be. In a sense, each one of us will be creating our own individual future world reality according to our dreams and efforts, so be sure to choose one you like! Connect with your Higher Self, pick the absolute highest thought you can and more, ensoul it with Love, and make an effort to offer it to Creaton. Then sit back in Joy and Peace and watch the Earth Change Fireworks!!! -- -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- | Walter D. "Cruiser1" Pullen | cruiser1@milton.u.washington.edu. | -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- | "Who am I, What am I? As I am, I am not. But as we are, I AM. And to | - you my creation, My Perfect Love is your Perfect Freedom. And I will be - | with you forever and ever, until the End, and then forever more." - GOD | -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: Date: 9 Jul 92 05:35:07 GMT References: <61707@cup.portal.com> <61730@cup.portal.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 35 In article <61730@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Cary: >You of course know that me talking to Robert Sheaffer about my interview >has nothing to do with Ley lines. Mr. Sheaffer has been good enough to >throw two flames at me so far about my identity and I was pointing out to >him that I had interviewed and vidioed him for about 30 minutes a few >months ago. I'll have to admit it had slipped my mind too. Mr. Sheaffer >is a very good person to interview and he did conduct himself well. I'll >have to admit that I do agree with what his group is doing. >That's all folks. >John Winston. John, I have not seen you flamed yet. Believe me, you'll know when you have been flamed. A flame is a personal attack. It is not a flame to make fun of something. It is not a flame till it gets personal. And it is a bit rude to claim that someone has been flaming you, when they have not been. That you are rather new to the net is rather obvious. But it is normally wise to use terms new to you with care. Despite several posted warnings, you continue to misuse the term "flame". If you expect to be taken seriously, you are must first get this simple thing right. If you cannot understand this, why should anyone believe that you have gotten anything else right? If is not a flame to poke fun at what you have posted. It may be a flame to poke fun at you. Rich payner@netcom.com Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!mips!sdd.hp.com!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!bronze!indyvax.iupui.edu!tffreeba From: tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: RE: K2 Report - conclusion Message-ID: <1992Jul9.013353.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> Date: 9 Jul 92 06:33:53 GMT Sender: news@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Indiana University Lines: 14 Nntp-Posting-Host: indyvax.iupui.edu You FORGOT the frigging camera?????!!!!!!!! Estiercol de toro. This crap stinks more than a week old carp. You FORGOT the camera? I wave my willie in the general direction of your ancestors. You actually FORGOT the camera, as in... it slipped your mind... or... I coulda had a V8? It is to laugh. Thomas Freebairn * God not only plays dice with the universe * He cheats at poker. Space Rat Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!selway.umt.edu!cs000rdw From: cs000rdw@selway.umt.edu (Richard D Warner) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: DON'T EAT GREYS Message-ID: <1992Jul9.093935.7141@selway.umt.edu> Date: 9 Jul 92 09:39:35 GMT Organization: University of Montana Lines: 15 Like most of you, I grew up a grey and potato man, but not anymore. My cousin Billy Bob said that "those greasy greys aint good to eat" and it's true. I had my cholestrol checked last month and it was 280. Also, you'll never believe it, but I think you can make money with greys. One of mine got out and got into my nephews electronics stuff, and made just a heck of a nice multiband radio before I found him. I was so impressed, I thought I'd pal around with him some, and make him a part of the family sort of. I tried to take him on a run with the car, but there was no way to get him to run. Those greys just aren't very stout. Finally I got so frustrated I just let the dawgs have him. After that, I did get another one to run, though. Darn thing keeled over dead after two miles though. Rich Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!hellgate.utah.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Dulce Report - Conclusion Message-ID: <139085.2A5B8080@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 8 Jul 92 23:19:02 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - Dear Michael: > I read all of the information that you posted and appreciated your work > and the work of the The Phoenix Report but I don't believe it. It > doesn't > add up to me and I won't explain why. Your may be right and I'm wrong. > I hope I am wrong in this case. > That's all folks. > John Winston. First, that was not my work, nor did I have anything to do with it. Someone uploaded that material to ParaNet and I simply reposted it with permission. I have found numerous problems with it myself and, although I do not necessarily believe that something is happening at Dulce, I think that the Phoenix material is just more disinformation. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!hellgate.utah.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Dulce Report - Conclusion Message-ID: <139086.2A5B8082@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 8 Jul 92 23:25:03 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - Didn't the Bill Moore get tangled up in this situation? Didn't this > whole > episode cause Paul Bennewitz to have a nervous breakdown? Do you have > any > further documentation on this aspect of the investigation? I for one > would > like to find out where some (if not all) of the disinformation came > from.Are there any other investigations "The Phoenix Project is working > on > ? Yes. Paul Bennewitz did have some psychological problems as a result of the disinformation that Moore and his friends were feeding Paul, but the Dulce thing has never been proven, although that was the subject of the information that they were giving to Paul as part of the disinformation. In that event, I would be suspicious as to the validity of anything being located at Dulce. It is true that there have been UFO sightings at Dulce and there have been cattle mutilations, but that doesn't prove the existence of an underground base. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!hellgate.utah.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: K2 And The Phoenix Project Message-ID: <139087.2A5B8085@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 8 Jul 92 23:36:01 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - Date: 9 Jul 92 14:01:59 GMT References: <1992Jul8.211056.26797@ccu.umanitoba.ca> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 25 rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Chris Rutkowski) writes: >Things were getting a bit silly in this newsgroup, so I thought I would >change the thread somewhat. Let's see what the skeptics and believers >have to say about the following: > 1992 North American Crop Circles and/or UGMs > Reported to NAICCR as of 8 July 1992 >920426 Jonesboro, Georgia >- a "formation" of crop circles, "exactly" like those found in >1991 in the same location, was discovered. >Source: Rosemary Ellen Guiley; Vance Tiede I've tried contacting the original Jonesboro source on this, but have been unsuccessful. I'll try again and see what I can find out. -- Anson Kennedy anson@netcom.com Secretary of the Georgia Skeptics (but don't even THINK I speak for them!) "If you don't watch the violence, \ "If I had been the Virgin Mary, you'll never get desensitized to it." \ I would have said 'No.'" -Bart Simpson \ -Margaret "Stevie" Smith (1902-1971) Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Oberg's "Explanation for STS-48 UFO" Message-ID: <0w8l6h=.sheaffer@netcom.com> Date: 9 Jul 92 14:09:34 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 81 Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:27074 alt.alien.visitors:6946 NOTE OF INTEREST June 28, 1992 By: James Oberg, Rt 2 Box 35O, Dickinson, Texas 77539 Subject: Actual explanation for the notorious STS-48 "UFOs" on videotape After the "HardCopy" interview with Don Ecker (June 5), and my appearance with him on "Larry King Live" June 26, I've gotten an appreciation of where this UFO connection has come from. When I saw the original incoherent letters from D. Ratsch, I dismissed it as complete looney-tunes, but subsequently I've found out what fundamental misunderstanding and ignorance has led to the fuss. Lights on the shuttle TV cameras can be many things, and on these scenes in question they are stars, cities, lens spots, and nearby shuttle-generated debris (they are rarely if ever other satellites). Especially with the low-light cameras used for the nighttime mesoscale lightning surveys, the horizon is deceptive because the glowing line is the airglow and the actual edge of the earth is somewhat below it. With poor contrast; this means that stars can cross the glowing "horizon" and still be visible a bit further before actually setting. There are more than 50 sources of ice on the shuttle, plus a steady source of debris such as insulation flakes from inside the payload bay. This includes 38 primary RCS jets and 6 vernier jets (which burn the hypergolic [self-igniting] propellants of nitrogen tetroxide and hydrazine), an air dump line, a waste water dump line, a supply water dump line, two fuel cell purge lines (the hydrogen one is always leaking water), two flash evaporators, a water spray boiler, and so forth. No surprise, then, that floating debris near the shuttle is a common sight. The particles usually (not always) spin, and depending on the axis of spin they may or may not flash, and depending on the speed of spin their flicker may or may not be picked up by the camera CCD scanner. The RCS jets usually fire in 80-millisecond pulses to keep the shuttle pointed in a desired direction, under autopilot control (usually once every few minutes). These jets may flash when they ignite if the mixture ratio is not quite right. Propellant also tends to seep out the feed lines into the nozzle, where it accumulates, freezes through evaporative cooling, and flakes off during the next firing. The ejected burn byproducts travel at about 1000 ft/sec. One pulse usually emits about a quarter pound of propellant in a fan-shaped plume. When small, drifting debris particles are hit by this RCS plume they are violently accelerated away from the jet. This is what is seen in the infamous "Case 2" sequence, where a flash (the jet firing) is immediately followed by all nearby particles being pushed away from the jet, followed shortly later by a fast moving object (evidently RCS fuel ice) departing from the direction of the jet (the streak is caused by the slow camera speed). If one plotted all the departure lines of the pushed debris and the expelled ice, they would converge at the jet's location. These ice particles, in particular, form slowly inside the jets and elsewhere, as the fluid (water or propellant) seeps out and spreads over the surface, They take on the shape of the structure they form on. They can thus have just about any shape, usually flat. They have been seen and photographed for thirty years, about as long as UFOlogists have mistaken them for flying saucers. -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the table like a card cheat." - Martin Gardner (writing in "Free Inquiry", Spring, 1992) Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Cary Collett) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Boy or Girl (was Re: e: Ley Lines) Message-ID: Date: 9 Jul 92 14:23:51 GMT References: <1992Jul8.133132.12265@rhrk.uni-kl.de> <8z7lj#-@lynx.unm.edu> <61733@cup.portal.com> Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 20 In article <61733@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Cary: >I think you making fun of me. I think you are right. >Are you a girl or boy. >John Winston. That's for me to know and you to not find out. *grin* Cary cary@ursaminor.unm.edu My opinions, mine, mine, mine! To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit eachother. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Cary Collett) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: DON'T EAT GREYS Message-ID: Date: 9 Jul 92 14:32:20 GMT References: <1992Jul9.093935.7141@selway.umt.edu> Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 19 In article <1992Jul9.093935.7141@selway.umt.edu> cs000rdw@selway.umt.edu (Richard D Warner) writes: > Like most of you, I grew up a grey and potato man, but not anymore. >My cousin Billy Bob said that "those greasy greys aint good to eat" and it's >true. I had my cholestrol checked last month and it was 280. I've heard that if you follow them with a decent red wine it will help keep the cholestrol levels down. Or was that cheese? > >Rich > Cary cary@ursaminor.unm.edu My opinions, mine, mine, mine! I bet the main reason the police keep people away from a plane crash is they don't want anybody walking in and lying down in the crash stuff, then, when some comes up, act like they just woke up and go, Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!natinst.com!davoli@natinst.com From: davoli@natinst.com (Russell J. Davoli) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: K2 Report - Part 3 Message-ID: <1992Jul9.184338.3415@natinst.com> Date: 9 Jul 92 18:43:38 GMT References: <139011.2A568762@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Sender: news@natinst.com Organization: National Instruments Corp. Lines: 40 Nntp-Posting-Host: red.natinst.com In article <139011.2A568762@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>, ParaNet.Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (sm) writes: > > * Forwarded from "ParaNet UFO Echo" > * Originally from ParaNet(sm) Information Service > * Originally dated 07-04-92 22:09 > > <<..Continued from previous message>> > > ... > > The site is isolated and cut-off from general access, except > from the air or the use of snowmobiles, or ski's, 6 months of the > year because of heavy snow conditions. A well constructed and > permanent "fire" lookout tower on top of Pilot Peak (K-2) was > suddenly abandoned several years ago. Discussions with local U.S. > Forest Rangers, indicate there are no intentions of ever manning > or re-activating the fire lookout station. Budgetary problems > were not a factor. The explanation given, was that the lookout > was obsolete. Fire spotting, these days, according to the > rangers, is better accomplished by patrolling aircraft. > > This explanation, (in 1989) seems suspect and insubstantial, at > best. Evidence to support these claims are provided by the fact > that other fire lookout stations, in nearby areas, are > operational and manned throughout the peak summer fire season. > Why is the K-2 fire lookout an exception? I've read or heard a couple of pieces in the mainstream news lately concerning the fire lookout towers and how these are now being rented out to people who want to vacation in a remote spot with a great view. According to the reports, many of these towers were "suddenly abandoned" a few years ago for the reason stated above. Plus, the Forest Service or whoever owns the towers can make a few bucks to help their budgets out this way. The official explanation doesn't seem the least bit suspect to me, unless you're convinced that this bit of news is a further attempt at spreading misinformation. Maybe you folks who really want to get to bottom of things can rent that tower out and make your own observations. Unless you make it known that you're going there just to watch for the aliens, no one is going to know any better, right? Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines... Message-ID: Date: 9 Jul 92 18:20:53 GMT References: <1992Jul8.235854.20036@ncsu.edu> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 32 In article <1992Jul8.235854.20036@ncsu.edu> etcolber@eos.ncsu.edu (ERICK TODD COLBERT) writes: > >Does anyone know of a book called "Bridge to Infinity?" > > >I have heard it's "banned" in the US, but is available through a small company >under a different name. > >This book refered to Ley Lines and their relationship to the sightings of >"UFO's" There is *no such thing* (thank &deity) as a book being "banned" in the U.S.! In the past when such a claim has been made, what it usually meant was something like: "Publisher X had bought publication rights for the U.K. and Canada, but was not allowed to sell in the U.S., or else faced a lawsuit for breach of contract." If anyone could *substantiate* a claim that some book was "banned" in the U.S., THAT would be more newsworthy than the book itself. -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the table like a card cheat." - Martin Gardner (writing in "Free Inquiry", Spring, 1992) Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line?? Message-ID: <448ls!m.sheaffer@netcom.com> Date: 9 Jul 92 18:29:05 GMT References: <61708@cup.portal.com> <61742@cup.portal.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 15 Isn't that the "pickup line" used in a singles' bar? -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the table like a card cheat." - Martin Gardner (writing in "Free Inquiry", Spring, 1992) Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!news.nd.edu!ovid!wlamonac From: wlamonac@ovid.helios.nd.edu (william lamonaca) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Banned Books Message-ID: <1992Jul9.195148.11924@news.nd.edu> Date: 9 Jul 92 19:51:48 GMT References: <1992Jul8.235854.20036@ncsu.edu> Sender: news@news.nd.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Notre Dame, Notre Dame Lines: 4 Weren't Wilhelm Reich's books banned in the US for some time? I know that at one point, the government stepped in and burned all the copies of his books that they could get their hands on (which, IMHO, is just as chilling and disgusting as if they HAD banned the books). Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!linac!sunova!bolivia!peterson From: peterson@bolivia.Berkeley.EDU (William Peterson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Perot for President Message-ID: <1992Jul9.200433.22070@sunova.ssc.gov> Date: 9 Jul 92 20:04:33 GMT Sender: usenet@sunova.ssc.gov (News Admin) Reply-To: peterson@bolivia.Berkeley.EDU (William Peterson) Distribution: na Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory Lines: 16 Nntp-Posting-Host: bolivia.ssc.gov You Fools! Perot is a grey. How did he make his Billions? Advanced Tech. Why did he suddenly decide to run? Why is he so secretive? Why is he not telling us what his plan is once he becomes Pres? Why is he so scared of the press? Why does he want to hook up the country electronically? Who is he really reporting to? I think it is clear what his plans are. He is going to gain the Presidency. Clear the why for the grey invasion. And kick back with a Miller in a human free world. Vote for Clinton. Jennifer can vouch for him not being an alien. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!ubc-cs!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani From: spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Dulce Report - Conclusion Message-ID: <1992Jul9.203243.2362@mprgate.mpr.ca> Date: 9 Jul 92 20:32:43 GMT References: <139085.2A5B8080@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Sender: news@mprgate.mpr.ca Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada Lines: 39 In article <139085.2A5B8080@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>, Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) writes: |> |> > Dear Michael: |> > I read all of the information that you posted and appreciated your work |> > and the work of the The Phoenix Report but I don't believe it. It |> > doesn't |> > add up to me and I won't explain why. Your may be right and I'm wrong. |> > I hope I am wrong in this case. |> > That's all folks. |> > John Winston. |> |> First, that was not my work, nor did I have anything to do with it. Someone |> uploaded that material to ParaNet and I simply reposted it with permission. I |> have found numerous problems with it myself and, although I do not necessarily |> believe that something is happening at Dulce, I think that the Phoenix |> material is just more disinformation. |> |> Mike |> [sig toasted] If the Dulce and K2 reports were disinformation, then perhaps "they" were trying to get people away from Dulce and into some wild goose chase in the K2 area. It's a conspiracy!!!! ;^) -- *********************************************************************** | Leonard E. Spani | //!?\\ | (disclaimer-p) | | spani@mprgate.mpr.ca | \\?!// | t | *********************************************************************** Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!odin!mad-celt From: mad-celt@odin.unomaha.edu (Andrew Patrick Booth) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line?? Message-ID: Date: 9 Jul 92 23:17:04 GMT References: <61708@cup.portal.com> <61742@cup.portal.com> <448ls!m.sheaffer@netcom.com> Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha Lines: 18 Well the Palladium Role Playing Games: Rifts and Beyond the Supernatural, Ley Lines are streams of magical energy that very in size and power. They cover the Earth and intersect in 'Nexus Points' (spots of enourmous energy) in various places around the world. Some of the more powerful nexus points are Stone Henge, Bermuda Triangle, and the Gateway arch in St. Louis. Of course these are 'fantasy' games are intended to be fictional. If there is any occult truth to these publications, it was probably intentional and was to disbelieved. I doubt any one at Palladium believes what they write. But you never know, they may be telling truths and wish everyone to discover the power of the occult. :D "Yeah, right!" -- | Andrew P. Booth "Mad Celt" | "Read the SOUND News & Arts!" Now | | mad-celt@odin.unomaha.edu | available from ed@odin.unomaha.edu | | SOUND News & Arts Newspaper and Netzine | and gopher (odin.unomaha.edu). | | Newspaper Distribution Manager | - "Have you had a paroxysm today?" | Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rphroy!caen!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!odin!mad-celt From: mad-celt@odin.unomaha.edu (Andrew Patrick Booth) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Greys and F.U.I. (Flying Under the Influence) Message-ID: Date: 9 Jul 92 23:31:09 GMT Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Distribution: world,local Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha Lines: 16 cfkfb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Karl Bridges) writes: > Can you tell me whether the greys had a designated driver. Can you >imagine running off the road at lightspeed. I wonder what the local police would do if they had to give greys a sobriety test. How would they pull them over in the first place? Maybe they stop all flying saucers going through a checkpoint. If the greys were speeding would they even register on radar? What would be the maximum penalty for FUI (Flying Under the Influence)? -- | Andrew P. Booth "Mad Celt" | "Read the SOUND News & Arts!" Now | | mad-celt@odin.unomaha.edu | available from ed@odin.unomaha.edu | | SOUND News & Arts Newspaper and Netzine | and gopher (odin.unomaha.edu). | | Newspaper Distribution Manager | - "Have you had a paroxysm today?" | Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!wupost!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <61808@cup.portal.com> Date: 10 Jul 92 00:22:45 GMT References: <61707@cup.portal.com> <61730@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 4 Dear Rich: Ok I you win that arguement. Maybe is was't a flame. I consider you to be a person who is sincere. John Winston Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines... Message-ID: <61809@cup.portal.com> Date: 10 Jul 92 00:27:21 GMT References: <1992Jul8.235854.20036@ncsu.edu> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 4 Dear Mr. Sheaffer: Thanks for your comments. I have read a lot about the gentleman in question but am unfarmiliar with the book. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!arizona.edu!hep1.physics.arizona.edu!wallin From: wallin@hep1.physics.arizona.edu (Tripp Wallin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: MILLER BEER & ALIENS Message-ID: <1992Jul9.171946.3474@arizona.edu> Date: 10 Jul 92 00:19:38 GMT References: <1992Jul07.023952.15894@mixcom.com> <61656@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul8.213811.16760@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> Distribution: world,local Lines: 36 Nntp-Posting-Host: hep1.physics.arizona.edu In article <1992Jul8.213811.16760@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu>, cfkfb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Karl Bridges) writes: |> mad-celt@odin.unomaha.edu (Andrew Patrick Booth) writes: |> |> >wallin@hep7.physics.arizona.edu (Tripp Wallin) writes: |> |> >> Thats funny last night when me and a couple of greys were sitting around |> >> the house discussing the fate of humankind I would have sworn they were |> >> drinking Keystone (it seems aliens have bad taste in alchol.). |> |> >Well if they were getting it for free, then it's OK. Free beer tastes better.:) |> >As to my reference to all intelligent beings drinking Bud, I was kidding. I |> >don't think any mass produced domestic beer is that good(but it's cheaper). I |> >like Carlsberg beer myself (brewed in Copenhagen). Sam Adams is good too. I |> >haven't had the chance to try any of the previously listed local beers. |> |> >Has anyone offered a Grey a Pabst Blue Ribbon or Red White and Blue. I'm |> >curious about how bad their taste in beer is. :) |> |> >I wonder when Greys will start the bar hopping scene. ;) |> >-- |> >| Andrew P. Booth "Mad Celt" | "Read the SOUND News & Arts!" Now | |> >| mad-celt@odin.unomaha.edu | available from ed@odin.unomaha.edu | |> >| SOUND News & Arts Newspaper and Netzine | and gopher (odin.unomaha.edu). | |> |> |> Can you tell me whether the greys had a designated driver. Can you |> imagine running off the road at lightspeed. |> >| Newspaper Distribution Manager | - "Have you had a paroxysm today?" | Well that explains all the UFO sitings. I mean you figure if they have technology enough to travel from light-years away they could probably avoid detection from us. Its probably just a bunch of greys get wasted and forget to put on their sheilding. Or at least thats how I met Frank and Edna the two greys that I share a house with. Tripp Wallin Physics and Math Undergraduate Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Boy or Girl (was Re: e: Ley Lines) Message-ID: <61812@cup.portal.com> Date: 10 Jul 92 00:59:46 GMT References: <1992Jul8.133132.12265@rhrk.uni-kl.de> <8z7lj#-@lynx.unm.edu> <61733@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 11 Dear Cary: That was a very funny respose that you gave. Due to the fact that it looks like I'm never going to be able to post from a floppy disk the information about Ley Lines let me tell you something about a thing that I checked out a few years back. The things are called The Mysterious Rock Walls Or Fences. They are very controversial so here is my opinion on them. They exist between Berkeley, Calif and Milpitas, Calif. In most cases they are only about 4 feet or less high and don't appear to be made to keep in cattle or anything. Sometimes they go parallel to one an other for a few hundred yards and then stop. The only thing that any sense to me is that they are made to focus the energy in the Ley Lines to Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Boy or Girl (was Re: e: Ley Lines) Message-ID: <61813@cup.portal.com> Date: 10 Jul 92 01:11:25 GMT References: <1992Jul8.133132.12265@rhrk.uni-kl.de> <8z7lj#-@lynx.unm.edu> <61733@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 8 make the area more conducive to the presence of man. I've also found figures impressed on boulders that have about 20 chacters on them. These were impressed on a sort of cement that was placed on the boulders. Some people say the figures are 220 years old. My sources of information say that they are about 22,000 or more years old. They may have been made by a previous civilization. The local Alone Indians say they didn't make them. It's quite a mystery. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line?? Message-ID: <61814@cup.portal.com> Date: 10 Jul 92 01:24:51 GMT References: <61708@cup.portal.com> <61742@cup.portal.com> <448ls!m.sheaffer@netcom.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 9 Dear Mad Celt: Many times the truth is put forward in sort of a silly way, especially in merry ole England. Tell the truth and be on the next bond fire. Stone Hendge is one of the points of maximun energy. Mt. Shasta is one. Although I will probubly misspell them the points of energy also are in Gladsbury, England, The Royal Tetons, USA, the H. mountains in India, the Great Pyramid and a few others. So what you mention is jest may be truer than you thought. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line?? Message-ID: <61816@cup.portal.com> Date: 10 Jul 92 01:35:31 GMT References: <1992Jul7.034339.20402@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <61676@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 6 Dear Emma: The areas where Ley Lines are most concentrated doesn't especially always have to be in a high point. People have found them in all sorts of places. Granted they many times have stones placed where they are most concentrated. Joh Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line?? Message-ID: <61817@cup.portal.com> Date: 10 Jul 92 01:40:50 GMT References: <61708@cup.portal.com> <61742@cup.portal.com> <448ls!m.sheaffer@netcom.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 4 Dear Mr. Sheaffer: Your mention of the Singles Bad reminds me that it was in such a place that I heard Sylvia Brown speak. She is a very entertaining speaker. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!tcumming From: tcumming@netcom.com (Tom Cumming) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party Message-ID: <5+9lvyn.tcumming@netcom.com> Date: 10 Jul 92 00:50:26 GMT References: <1992Jun29.172426.22961@newserve.cc.binghamton.edu> <61435@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul3.180407.21031@newserve.cc.binghamton.edu> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 23 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6965 sci.skeptic:27110 In article <1992Jul3.180407.21031@newserve.cc.binghamton.edu> vu0208@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (!) writes: >In article <61435@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > >>To vu0208: >>You asked me about wake up time. Some people call it enlightenment. It's breakfast time! >How we were brought on "earth" planet? adam and eve were a "seed" population >Why we were down loaded here? good grazing >What they want from us now? food >Can we go back and live with them? for dinner... >How do they plan to take us back there..? cattle trucks :-) Tom (moo moooo moo) Cumming. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!rpi!sarah!newserve!bingsuns!vu0208 From: vu0208@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (!) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party Message-ID: <1992Jul10.034844.3719@newserve.cc.binghamton.edu> Date: 10 Jul 92 03:48:44 GMT References: <61435@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul3.180407.21031@newserve.cc.binghamton.edu> <5+9lvyn.tcumming@netcom.com> Sender: usenet@newserve.cc.binghamton.edu (Mr News) Organization: State University of New York at Binghamton Lines: 52 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6966 sci.skeptic:27115 Nntp-Posting-Host: bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu In article <5+9lvyn.tcumming@netcom.com> tcumming@netcom.com (Tom Cumming) writes: >In article <1992Jul3.180407.21031@newserve.cc.binghamton.edu> vu0208@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (!) writes: >>In article <61435@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >> >>>To vu0208: >>>You asked me about wake up time. Some people call it enlightenment. > It's breakfast time! I thought they eat cereal for breakfast or was it ham? > >>How we were brought on "earth" planet? > adam and eve were a "seed" population So adam and eve were one of them...hmmm! > >>Why we were down loaded here? > good grazing > Then they should go to china and India where more than 2/3 of the population lies, why come to this barren western hemisphere? >>What they want from us now? > food > Well we can arrange a something like "we are the world.." type show for them as we did for Ethiopia, didn't we! >>Can we go back and live with them? > for dinner... Where? at McDonalds! > >>How do they plan to take us back there..? > cattle trucks :-) No we will settle for less than a flying saucer or even a FLYING CUP !!! > >Tom (moo moooo moo) Cumming. Hey tommy boy, stop moooing and start grazing or you will become a food for thought! :) :) )::( ---- | | an alien smilie in the mirror! Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!ieunet!tcdcs!unix1.tcd.ie!ewillims From: ewillims@unix1.tcd.ie (Emma Williams) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line?? Message-ID: Date: 10 Jul 92 09:31:12 GMT References: <61708@cup.portal.com> <61742@cup.portal.com> <448ls!m.sheaffer@netcom.com> <61814@cup.portal.com> Sender: usenet@cs.tcd.ie (NN required at ashe.cs.tcd.ie) Organization: Trinity College, Dublin Lines: 26 Nntp-Posting-Host: unix1.tcd.ie In <61814@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Mad Celt: >Many times the truth is put forward in sort of a silly way, especially >in merry ole England. Tell the truth and be on the next bond fire. >Stone Hendge is one of the points of maximun energy. Mt. Shasta is one. >Although I will probubly misspell them the points of energy also are in >Gladsbury, England, The Royal Tetons, USA, the H. mountains in India, the >Great Pyramid and a few others. Yes! You did! Sorry, John, here's my 2 cents worth: It's Stonehenge and Glastonbury!!! (Comes of being and English major! :) EMMA! So what you mention is jest may be truer >than you thought. >John Winston .. ____________________________________________________________________ | Emma Williams | Dad, I guess you're wondering why | | ewillims@unix1.tcd.ie | I'm ringing you..--Calvin & Hobbes | | | (eller Steen og Stoffer :-> ) | |____________________________|_____________________________________| Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!ieunet!tcdcs!unix1.tcd.ie!ewillims From: ewillims@unix1.tcd.ie (Emma Williams) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line?? Message-ID: Date: 10 Jul 92 09:41:08 GMT References: <1992Jul7.034339.20402@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <61676@cup.portal.com> <61816@cup.portal.com> Sender: usenet@cs.tcd.ie (NN required at ashe.cs.tcd.ie) Organization: Trinity College, Dublin Lines: 22 Nntp-Posting-Host: unix1.tcd.ie In <61816@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Emma: >The areas where Ley Lines are most concentrated doesn't especially >always have to be in a high point. People have found them in all >sorts of places. Granted they many times have stones placed where >they are most concentrated. >Joh Winston Dear John, I didn't actually say that the nexus points are always on high ground. My exact words were "...or on an area of high ground"! I had also mentioned standing stones on tracks and crossroads and shrines (which were usually hidden in hollows or groves surrounded by trees. Pools and wells where the ground dips are also other points! :) EMMA! ____________________________________________________________________ | Emma Williams | Dad, I guess you're wondering why | | ewillims@unix1.tcd.ie | I'm ringing you..--Calvin & Hobbes | | | (eller Steen og Stoffer :-> ) | |____________________________|_____________________________________| Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!das.wang.com!wang!news From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers! Message-ID: <2227@israel.nysernet.org> Date: 9 Jul 92 12:27:07 GMT References: <2kFFNB1w165w@tsoft.sf-bay.org> <1992Jul6.112258.8246@uwm.edu> <1992Jul6.141902.910@cbfsb.cb.att.com> <1992Jul7.034020.19697@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <1992Jul8.122516.21846@sctc.com> Sender: news@wang.com Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs Lines: 21 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6969 sci.skeptic:27117 alt.paranormal:5375 alt.religion.kibology:2954 In <1992Jul8.122516.21846@sctc.com> beede@sctc.com (Mike Beede) writes: >That's not nearly as irritating as when you're thinking about >something and you suddenly start thinking ``beep.....beep....beep'' >and it's that stupid ``ESP call waiting'' and they start asking you >about pyramid-shaped permanent siding and ``are you thinking of making >any monoliths around the house--our representive can call for a free >estimate.'' There oughta be a law, that's what _I_ say! I used to have that happen all the time, they'd interrupt important channeled conversations or call while I was doing my breathing exercises in the hot tub, but then we finally got Caller-ID on our Cosmic Switchboard and now I contact them back and dump an enless loop of negative energy into their ectoplasmic fax machine. Next week I'm getting screening built into my psionic shields so only known callers will get through, others will get an astral projection of Figure 1. -- /|/-\/-\ I'll leave you with this saying: |__/__/_/ They collapsed.... like nuns in the street... they had no |warren@ teen appeal! / nysernet.org Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!siesoft!imw From: imw@siesoft.co.uk (Ian Wild) Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Bosonic Transport Message-ID: <1992Jul10.124219.4712@siesoft.co.uk> Date: 10 Jul 92 12:42:19 GMT References: Sender: news@siesoft.co.uk (Usenet News) Organization: Siemens Nixdorf Information Systems Ltd. Lines: 24 Xref: ns-mx alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1897 sci.physics:23586 alt.alien.visitors:6970 X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4 mcirvin@husc8.harvard.edu (Mcirvin) writes: : silverstein@vxdesy.desy.de writes: : : [reasonable objections deleted] : : >So even if you took two cars and turned them both into bosons and aimed them : >at each other at high speeds, I wouldn't want to handle the insurance claim... : : Let me add something that I don't think has been brought up yet: you don't : need to do align all the spins in a system in some special way to "make it : a boson." A system made of an even number of spin-1/2 fermions, for : instance, has in general some superposition of different integer spins, so : it's a boson in any case. You may be a boson right now (assuming that : there's some way of unambiguously counting your atoms). There's nothing : special associated with this. I think some clues about the problem may be obtained from, of all places, the financial community. Consider money. No matter how big my pocket may be, eventually it will fill up if I keep putting money into it. Money, therefore, is intrinsically fermionic in nature. But if I take that same money to a bank, it clearly becomes bosonic - who ever heard of a bank being too full to accept a deposit? So what's the trick? imw Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines... Message-ID: <61846@cup.portal.com> Date: 10 Jul 92 13:25:32 GMT References: <1992Jul8.235854.20036@ncsu.edu> <61809@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 5 To Everybody: This subject of Ley Lines has now been expanded to two more collections by other people asking questions. In order for it to make any sense at all I would suggest you look at the other two collections. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line?? Message-ID: <61847@cup.portal.com> Date: 10 Jul 92 13:28:39 GMT References: <1992Jul7.034339.20402@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <61676@cup.portal.com> <61816@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 3 Dear Emma: I stand corrected. You are exactly right. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line?? Message-ID: <61848@cup.portal.com> Date: 10 Jul 92 13:35:39 GMT References: <61708@cup.portal.com> <61742@cup.portal.com> <448ls!m.sheaffer@netcom.com> <61814@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 5 Dear Emma: I just looked at the spelling of Glastonbury on the current issue of Fate magazine and figured someone would nail me on it and you were the one. Thanks for the spelling of the other word, ha. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!olivea!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines... Message-ID: <1992Jul10.144112.3687@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: 10 Jul 92 14:41:12 GMT References: <1992Jul8.235854.20036@ncsu.edu> Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Lines: 29 Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com Erick;[you write] >Does anyone know of a book called "Bridge to Infinity?" >I have heard it's "banned" in the US, but is available through a small company >under a different name. The book is available out here in California. Even though we can't pay our bills, we are still part of this nation.....I think. :-> The name of the bookstore one can get a copy is "East/West Bookstore" in Menlo Park.Dial (415)555-1212 for information. Hope this helps, Rod -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Boy or Girl (was Re: e: Ley Lines) Message-ID: Date: 10 Jul 92 14:31:53 GMT References: <61733@cup.portal.com> <61812@cup.portal.com> Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 46 In article <61812@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Cary: >That was a very funny respose that you gave. >Due to the fact that it looks like I'm never going to be able to post from >a floppy disk the information about Ley Lines let me tell you something >about a thing that I checked out a few years back. The things are called >The Mysterious Rock Walls Or Fences. They are very controversial so here is >my opinion on them. They exist between Berkeley, Calif and Milpitas, Calif. >In most cases they are only about 4 feet or less high and don't appear to >be made to keep in cattle or anything. Sometimes they go parallel to one >an other for a few hundred yards and then stop. The only thing that any >sense to me is that they are made to focus the energy in the Ley Lines to >make the area more conducive to the presence of man. I've also found >figures impressed on boulders that have about 20 chacters on them. These were >impressed on a sort of cement that was placed on the boulders. Some >people say the figures are 220 years old. My sources of information >say that they are about 22,000 or more years old. They may have been >made by a previous civilization. The local Alone Indians say they didn't >make them. It's quite a mystery. >John Winston. As far as the purpose of the walls goes they may not serve any purpose. In Scotland and Ireland there are quaint walls running all over the farm land. This land is typically VERY rocky. They walls are there because to actually haul all the stones out of the fields to somewhere else would have taken too much time, especially before the invention of the internal combustion engine. If they are 22,000 years old then any local indians sure wouldn't have been there then. Here in New Mexico there are what call petroglyphs or pictographs at many sites. While I don't belive any of them are as ancient as 22,000 years they do date from the 1st millenia and earlier 2nd millenia AD. I don't know what kind of an account you have but it seems to have fairly limited capabilities. Do have a a frined who can up load the file to his account and then mail/post it. Or failing that where did you get the info? Cary My opinions, mine, mine, mine! To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit eachother. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Bosonic Transport Message-ID: <8x9lmnl@lynx.unm.edu> Date: 10 Jul 92 14:49:23 GMT References: <1992Jul10.124219.4712@siesoft.co.uk> Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 30 Xref: ns-mx alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1899 sci.physics:23595 alt.alien.visitors:6976 In article <1992Jul10.124219.4712@siesoft.co.uk> imw@siesoft.co.uk (Ian Wild) writes: > >I think some clues about the problem may be obtained from, of all places, >the financial community. Consider money. No matter how big my pocket >may be, eventually it will fill up if I keep putting money into it. Money, >therefore, is intrinsically fermionic in nature. But if I take that same >money to a bank, it clearly becomes bosonic - who ever heard of a bank >being too full to accept a deposit? So what's the trick? > >imw I think you have forgotten something. You can get larger bills. Although getting congress to print an arbitrarily large bill might be difficult. Also you could carry the money around in the form of a check which as far as I know has no limit on the figure on the check. Or failing any of these just get bigger pockets! Cary cary@ursaminor.unm.edu My opinions, mine, mine, mine! I bet the main reason the police keep people away from a plane crash is they don't want anybody walking in and lying down in the crash stuff, then, when some comes up, act like they just woke up and go, "What, was THAT?!" Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Banned Books Message-ID: Date: 10 Jul 92 16:52:29 GMT References: <1992Jul8.235854.20036@ncsu.edu> <1992Jul9.195148.11924@news.nd.edu> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 37 In article <1992Jul9.195148.11924@news.nd.edu> wlamonac@ovid.helios.nd.edu (william lamonaca) writes: >Weren't Wilhelm Reich's books banned in the US for some time? I know that >at one point, the government stepped in and burned all the copies of his >books that they could get their hands on (which, IMHO, is just as chilling >and disgusting as if they HAD banned the books). This is what Robert Anton WIlson claims, who shows a definite resistance to getting facts straight. Reich was prosecuted not as a so-called "heretic", but because he was a cancer quack. (Note how Wilson's discussion of this in his "New Inquisition" scrupulously avoids any mention of *why* this was done; he wants you to see "Inquisitors", not "misguided consumer protection.") Reich was claiming his "orgone energy" quackery could cure cancer, and was selling machines to be used for that purpose. The FDA moved against him in court, Reich *refusing to defend himself* as a matter of principle. As a consequence, the FDA got from the judge everything it asked for, including an order to stop promoting "orgone energy" in any way. That's what happens in an 'adversarial process' when one side won't play: it gets shafted. Had Reich allowed his lawyer to fight this, the court order would likely have forbidden him to sell the quack machines, but left his writings alone. As it was, everything was seized as "contraband" because it allegedly defrauded the public as part of a scheme promoting a worthless "cancer cure". Until Reich's machines were being used to fraudulently "cure cancer", nobody in the government cared *what* he was writing. -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the table like a card cheat." - Martin Gardner (writing in "Free Inquiry", Spring, 1992) Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line?? Message-ID: Date: 10 Jul 92 17:13:02 GMT References: <61816@cup.portal.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 27 In article ewillims@unix1.tcd.ie (Emma Williams) writes: >In <61816@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > >>Dear Emma: >>The areas where Ley Lines are most concentrated doesn't especially >>always have to be in a high point. People have found them in all >>sorts of places. Granted they many times have stones placed where >>they are most concentrated. >>Joh Winston > > Dear John, Sending "Dear John" letters over the net. How sad. :^) Sorry, cound'nt resist. Bet John gets those all the time. > EMMA! > ____________________________________________________________________ > | Emma Williams | Dad, I guess you're wondering why | > | ewillims@unix1.tcd.ie | I'm ringing you..--Calvin & Hobbes | > | | (eller Steen og Stoffer :-> ) | > |____________________________|_____________________________________| > Rich payner@netcom.com Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!ibmchs!auschs!awdprime.austin.ibm.com!woofer.austin.ibm.com!jlpicard From: jlpicard@woofer.austin.ibm.com (Craig Becker) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: _The Frugal Gourmet's Gulf Breeze Cookbook_ Message-ID: <1992Jul9.172505.15087@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> Date: 9 Jul 92 17:25:05 GMT Sender: news@awdprime.austin.ibm.com (USENET News) Reply-To: craigb@ot.austin.ibm.com Organization: IBM Object Technology Products Lines: 56 Book Alert! _The Frugal Gourmet's Gulf Breeze Cookbook_! I picked this little gem up yesterday at the local Bookstop and it's a real treasure (even though I personally think Jeff Smith is more than a bit anal-retentive). Still, I'd recommend that anyone with a serious interest in cooking our extraterrestrial friends pick up a copy. Lots of good recipes for Gray (which, due to copyright I cannot reproduce here) including such tempting sounding repasts as Oysters Gray Gray Summer Sausage (in natural casing) Gray Cutlets w/ Mint Jelly Gray Poupon Gray Mouser (with or without Fahrfed) ....and several hundred other recipes, all gathered from the kitchens of the local (human) inhabitants. Also has sections on gourmet cooking with Pleaideans (and non- gourmet cooking, too; the Pleaidean Pot Pie sounds really scrumptious), Nords, Reptilians, and an extensive how-to section on raising and caring for Grays in your own backyard (historically a common practice in the area). Anyway, check it out, and as always, Bon Apetit! Also, while on culinary matters: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes: > [here's the barby recipe-hmmmmm] > I marinated the little bastards('cause of the tough skin)overnight > in lemon, garlic, vegetable oil, and red table wine(just a sconch). ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Excellent idea! Thanks for sharing that! (although I'll probably find myself using more than "just a sconch", if ya know what I mean :-) > P.S. I don't know what became of that nest of grays that was > around my area, but I haven't seen them in awhile. I had to use > the ones I had left in the freezer. I was hoping some would land > for the barbeque:-) Maybe my mind is playing tricks on me, but didn't someone once post plans for a "UFO attractor" device of some sort? If so, could they kindly repost it? Gourmands across the .net will be ever-so-grateful! Craig -- "Again," she said. Craig Becker, Object Technology Products -- -- "I'm afraid you've mistaken me Internet: craigb@ot.austin.ibm.com -- -- for someone else," the Austin: craigb@woofer.austin.ibm.com -- -- bureaucrat said amiably. VNET: CRAIGB at AUSVM1 -- Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!jvnc.net!darwin.sura.net!Sirius.dfn.de!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!Germany.EU.net!mcsun!ieunet!tcdcs!unix1.tcd.ie!ewillims From: ewillims@unix1.tcd.ie (Emma Williams) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line?? Message-ID: Date: 10 Jul 92 19:32:44 GMT References: <61708@cup.portal.com> <61742@cup.portal.com> <448ls!m.sheaffer@netcom.com> <61814@cup.portal.com> <61848@cup.portal.com> Sender: usenet@cs.tcd.ie (NN required at ashe.cs.tcd.ie) Organization: Trinity College, Dublin Lines: 18 Nntp-Posting-Host: unix1.tcd.ie In <61848@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Emma: >I just looked at the spelling of Glastonbury on the current >issue of Fate magazine and figured someone would nail me on it and >you were the one. Thanks for the spelling of the other word, ha. >John Winston You're welcome, John! Anytime! :) Emma! ____________________________________________________________________ | Emma Williams | Dad, I guess you're wondering why | | ewillims@unix1.tcd.ie | I'm ringing you..--Calvin & Hobbes | | | (eller Steen og Stoffer :-> ) | |____________________________|_____________________________________| Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!think.com!ames!pacbell.com!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!JUTS!duts!dfs30 From: dfs30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <63a402Uf194D01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> Date: 10 Jul 92 13:15:02 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <61586@cup.portal.com> <61614@cup.portal.com> Sender: netnews@ccc.amdahl.com Reply-To: dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise) Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA Lines: 17 Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10680 alt.alien.visitors:6981 sci.skeptic:27138 In article <61614@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >That's right Rich. We'll make a master of you yet but it may take a >while. >That's all folks. >John Winston. Hey John, I see you got your email working! Good to see you on the net. Denise -- ========================================================================= >>>>>>>>>>>|| Copyright (c) Denise faith Solis 1992 ||<<<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>>>>>>|| dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com ||<<<<<<<<<<< ========================================================================= Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!randvax!cis.rand.org!thompson From: thompson@cis.rand.org (Pamela Thompson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: MILLER GREYS? Message-ID: <10748@cis.rand.org> Date: 10 Jul 92 21:15:33 GMT Expires: 17 Jul 92 07:00:00 GMT References: <1992Jul8.190431.23378@news.unomaha.edu> Sender: news@cis.rand.org Reply-To: thompson@cis.rand.org (P.J. Thompson) Distribution: na Lines: 15 Like, all I know is that this grey I was dating last summer would drink nothing but Grolsch or St. Pauly's Girl. Of course, he was also fond of Rolex watches and drove a BMW and talked incessantly about what an important job he had piloting a spacecraft ("I'm bringing down 50k per zorbgob, babe."). His grey friends used to talk about him behind his back and call him a Guppie (Grey Upwardly Mobile Professional, I believe), and since I felt his lifestyle was morally reprehensile and thoroughly discredited, I broke off our engagement (but kept the ring). (Besides, I just couldn't stand to listen to ONE MORE store about navigating the Rings of Uranus. WHAT A B-O-R-E.) --P.J. Thompson :-) Believe me, I speak for no one on this earth but myself. ;-) Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!tellab5!jcj From: jcj@tellabs.com (J. Johnson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re^2: MILLER BEER & ALIENS Message-ID: <1992Jul10.175022.22800@tellab5.tellabs.com> Date: 10 Jul 92 17:50:22 GMT References: <61656@cup.portal.com> <1d7ls5-.payner@netcom.com> Sender: news@tellab5.tellabs.com (News) Organization: Huh? Lines: 7 Nntp-Posting-Host: sunl12 elinor louisea abdalla etc. etc. writes: >... >Hey, all the greys I know (and thats lots since NM is grand central >station for aliens) drink Guiness! So the LGM *were* Nords before they started drinking that swill! Or is that Nerds? Oh well, gotta go hyperventilate and blink my flashlight... Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2 From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <1992Jul11.042726.26159@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Date: 11 Jul 92 04:27:26 GMT References: <1992Jul8.123819.15866@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Organization: AT&T Lines: 14 In article <1992Jul8.123819.15866@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com>, garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) writes: > WELL, IT HAPPENED AGAIN!!! Gary came to pick me (Joan) up at my appartment > and I came out to great him. I had to go back up to my place to get a > tampon and when I went back down Gary had been replace with a CLONE. I went > with him anyway and had a great time. Gary (the real one) is a drag and his > dick is all cut up. The CLONE is a real man and his dick isn't all in > ribbons. This is a mess... > Joan shame on you! The guy has enough problems already. Don't talk so cocky, he could get a penal transplant that never goes soft, then you won't be talking so smart. BTW, speaking of soft penals...ever notice that Perot looks like a hybrid Gray? Think about it. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!verifone.com!ed_l1 From: ed_l1@verifone.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers! Message-ID: <1992Jul10.120347.4312@verifone.com> Date: 10 Jul 92 22:03:47 GMT References: <2kFFNB1w165w@tsoft.sf-bay.org> <1992Jul6.112258.8246@uwm.edu> <1992Jul6.141902.910@cbfsb.cb.att.com> Organization: VeriFone Inc., Honolulu HI Lines: 9 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6985 alt.paranormal:5377 Ah yes. Thank you all. Flying saucers and I are 45 this year. Makes you wonder, doesn't it? -- =========================================================================== || Ed L'Esperance - P.O. Box 4635, Kane`ohe, Hawai`i 96744 U.S.A. Earth || || Anthropologist, Writer, Editor -*- IN%"Ed_L1@VeriFone.Com" || || Opinions Copyright (c) 1992 Ed L'Esperance. All Rights Reserved || =========================================================================== Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!hotcity!kirkm From: kirkm@hotcity.COM (Kirk Marcroft) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Welcome Message-ID: Date: 11 Jul 92 08:15:22 GMT Organization: BBS Lines: 3 Welcome to Earth........Now go home! Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!odin.unomaha.edu!jcitro3 From: jcitro3@odin.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Men in black (MIB's) Message-ID: <1992Jul11.084640.223@news.unomaha.edu> Date: 11 Jul 92 08:46:40 GMT Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha Lines: 20 Did anyone else out there catch the Sightings show on the Fox Network last night (10 July 92)? I know some of you are overseas, so here is a brief overview. Apparently some of the latest UFO sightings have a common characteristc. Men in black have been threatening the witnesses!! These Men in black or MIB's are being reported by witnesses throughout the world (i.e. Canada and Russia), as well as here in the U.S. The description of these MIB's by witnesses seems to indicate that the MIB's may well be aliens themselves. Supposedly, they have slightly larger than normal heads, skinny bodies, and large eyes. They have been threatening UFO witnesses with their lives. Has anyone else ever heard of these MIB's? I'm sorta new to this game. I've long followed UFO reports and have never heard of MIB's. Joseph A. Citro III (Who will never take the time to make a signature) Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!odin!mad-celt From: mad-celt@odin.unomaha.edu (Andrew Patrick Booth) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Palladium games and Ley Lines Message-ID: Date: 11 Jul 92 08:37:28 GMT Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha Lines: 28 Well in my previous post about the use of ley lines in Palladium RPG's, stated that they were fictional publications. They are but the creator's of the games often use ideas taken from occult and related non-fiction sources. It is now apparent to me that this is the case about ley lines. The only information I have on ley lines is from reading the rule books for Rifts and Beyond the Supernatural. I do not know how accurate these books are or how much embelishment there is. To John: I was questioning the validity of the games account of ley lines not the exhistance of them. I have no real information on the subject. I would not doubt the possibility of ley lines, but I myself have seen no evidence to the exhistence of ley lines. In the book for Rifts there is a reference to the St. Louis Arch that is disturbing (especially if it's true) about it is believed that the Arch was constructed and deliberately named the Gateway Arch by a secret group of occultists that knew of the site's magical properties. Since the time of the rifts came a permanent dementional gateway has formed inside circumfrance of the arch. Now of course the time of rifts is a fictional future, but is there any truth in the exhistance of the arch's occult purposes. :) -- | Andrew P. Booth "Mad Celt" | "Read the SOUND News & Arts!" Now | | mad-celt@odin.unomaha.edu | available from ed@odin.unomaha.edu | | SOUND News & Arts Newspaper and Netzine | and gopher (odin.unomaha.edu). | | Newspaper Distribution Manager | - "Have you had a paroxysm today?" | Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <61897@cup.portal.com> Date: 11 Jul 92 13:10:12 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <61371@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul7.124948.20352@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> <61672@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 4 Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10696 alt.alien.visitors:6989 sci.skeptic:27162 I checked Arasia's material again and she refers to herself as being a walkin. John Winston. I know some people will really make a joke out of that statement of fact. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party Message-ID: <61898@cup.portal.com> Date: 11 Jul 92 13:34:05 GMT References: <61435@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul3.180407.21031@newserve.cc.binghamton.edu> <5+9lvyn.tcumming@netcom.com> <1992Jul10.034844.3719@newserve.cc.binghamton.edu> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 10 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6990 sci.skeptic:27163 Dear Tom and VU208: Sometimes the flames are better than my material. My comlements to you. You asked in jest how are we brought on earth planet and then mention Adam and Eve. The story of Adam ane Eve is about two people but at a deeper level it is the story of the Adamic race (a highly evolved spiritual race of people) who came to earth and mated with the more fleshly animal type of being (who were fair to look upon) and they produced the race that we are today (humans not man). The fleshly type of being was represented by Eve in the story. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: REQUEST: Roswell information; and how to get more Message-ID: <61899@cup.portal.com> Date: 11 Jul 92 13:39:41 GMT References: <20JUN199221455246@zeus.tamu.edu> <61434@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 3 Dear Charles: Thanks for the address of CAUS. I sent them a request by mail and will try to keep you informed as to how everything comes out. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!blaze.cs.jhu.edu!jyusenkyou!arromdee From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party Message-ID: <1992Jul11.185727.21305@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> Date: 11 Jul 92 18:57:27 GMT References: <5+9lvyn.tcumming@netcom.com> <1992Jul10.034844.3719@newserve.cc.binghamton.edu> <61898@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@blaze.cs.jhu.edu (Usenet news system) Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept. Lines: 19 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6992 sci.skeptic:27166 In article <61898@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Tom and VU208: >Sometimes the flames are better than my material. My comlements to you. >You asked in jest how are we brought on earth planet and then mention >Adam and Eve. The story of Adam ane Eve is about two people but at a deeper >level it is the story of the Adamic race (a highly evolved spiritual race >of people) who came to earth and mated with the more fleshly animal type >of being (who were fair to look upon) and they produced the race that we >are today (humans not man). The fleshly type of being was represented by >Eve in the story. >John Winston. How can two types of beings who evolved separately have similar enough genes to mate and produce children? -- Hi! Ani mutacia shel virus .signature. Ha`atek oti letoch .signature shelcha! Ken Arromdee (UUCP: ....!jhunix!arromdee; BITNET: arromdee@jhuvm; INTERNET: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu) Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!dxcern!dscomsa.desy.de!vxdesy.desy.de!silverstein From: silverstein@vxdesy.desy.de Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations) Message-ID: <1992Jul11.231207.1@vxdesy.desy.de> Date: 11 Jul 92 23:12:07 GMT References: <19MAR199219013628@erich.triumf.ca> <1992Mar20.182200.19700@news.iastate.edu> <1992Mar23.183954.14298@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <1992Mar24.163921.23802@news.iastate.edu> Sender: news@dscomsf.desy.de (USENET News System) Organization: (DESY, Hamburg, Germany) Lines: 40 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6993 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1905 Nntp-Posting-Host: vxdsyb.desy.de > >> >> Note that if you *do* get up near C, the interstellar medium presents >>a significant problem, as you plow through it. From the ship POV, it's >>getting fried by a relativistic beam of particles... >> >> James Nicoll > > Interesting. I hadn't thought of that. Seems like a potential source > of usuable energy. Actually, it could be a source of energy. In a 1960 paper in Astronautica Acta entitled "Galactic Matter and Interstellar Flight", R. W. Bussard proposed a ship that would employ a large deflection field to channel interstellar gas into a fusion drive that would be able to constantly accelerate the ship over long periods of time and thus allow interstellar flights in single-generation starships. Bussard was an engineer who wrote several books on designs for nuclear powered aircraft (none of which, fortunately, are in common use). His work is pretty sound, but goes into enough technical detail to possibly dismay some laymen. Anyway, Bussard does not attempt to come up with engineering approaches for building a ship like this; in fact, it's highly unlikely that the technology will exist in our lifetime, or even that of our grandkids. Instead, he uses a parameter of frontal area loading density per unit of interstellar gas density, measured in gm/cm^2 per (reactive nucleon)/cm^3 to describe the ship and calculate parameters of its performance. He demonstrates that to achieve an acceleration of 1g requires a ship of 10^-8 (gm/cm^2)/(nucleon/cm^3) or less. So, a 100 ton ship in a medium of 10 reactive nucleons per cubic centimeters would need a "scoop" with an area of 100,000 square km! Still, it's a fun idea to think about, and a number of scientifically literate sci-fi authors have used the idea, including Poul Anderson (Tau Zero), James Hogan (Voyage to Yesteryear), and Larry Niven, who coined the name "Bussard ramjet" for this sort of ship. Cheers, Sam Silverstein UW-Madison Dept. of Physics (Standard Disclaimer....blah,blah,etc.) Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party Message-ID: <61963@cup.portal.com> Date: 12 Jul 92 13:23:22 GMT References: <5+9lvyn.tcumming@netcom.com> <1992Jul10.034844.3719@newserve.cc.binghamton.edu> <61898@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul11.185727.21305@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 11 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:6994 sci.skeptic:27173 Dear Arromdee: You asked how two different types of beings can mate with one another. The answer is very carefully. The same thing is happening right now with the people from Z. Reticulli 1 and 2 and ourselves. You have a group of people like the greys who evolved so that they are totally logical brought together with our civilization, a group of people who are very emotional. The product of this union is bringing forth a civilization that has some of the good qualities of the two civilizations. The greys have a different means of elimination in that they eliminate their waste products through the skin. That's all folks. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines... Message-ID: <61964@cup.portal.com> Date: 12 Jul 92 13:34:08 GMT References: <1992Jul8.235854.20036@ncsu.edu> <1992Jul10.144112.3687@odin.corp.sgi.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 5 Dear Rod: I highly recommend the East West Book Store in Menlo Park. They have a wide range of far out books that I assure you will broaden a person's horizons. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Boy or Girl (was Re: e: Ley Lines) Message-ID: <61965@cup.portal.com> Date: 12 Jul 92 13:49:56 GMT References: <61733@cup.portal.com> <61812@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 11 Dear Cary: Your explanation of the production of the stone walls is one of the many valid ones put forward. I did my investigation of the Walls with a scientific group consisting of a medical doctor by the last name of Fisher who is a well respected person in Fremont, Calif. We met for the first time in a Park in Berkley, Calif. where the local park ranger gives tours of the rock walls. I also took pictures for a lady who had planned to write a book on the general subject of areas that have energy coming from them. I haven't been in contact with her for a few years and don't know wheather she came out with the book yet. She is known as a ghost writer. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Dulce Report - Conclusion Message-ID: <61966@cup.portal.com> Date: 12 Jul 92 13:58:34 GMT References: <139085.2A5B8080@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <1992Jul9.203243.2362@mprgate.mpr.ca> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 6 Dear Sir: Thanks for the information. It's very hard to tell who is telling the truth and who is telling the untruth (dis-information). I wish it was like the old cowboy movies where the good guys wore the white hats and the bad guys wore black hats. Let's hope that truth will win out. John Winston. Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!apple!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Preparing For The Earth Changes. Message-ID: <61969@cup.portal.com> Date: 12 Jul 92 14:39:36 GMT References: <1992Jul9.061809.29762@u.washington.edu> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 3 Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10702 alt.alien.visitors:6998 alt.paranormal:5384 Dear Information person: As S---- would say, interesting. John Winston Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!think.com!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu!poly-vlsi!usenet.vlsi.polymtl.ca!Rannou From: Rannou@info.polymtl.ca (Patrick Rannou) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: Date: 12 Jul 92 09:27:14 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <61586@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul7.034822.21414@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Sender: news@vlsi.polymtl.ca (USENET News System) Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal, Canada Lines: 43 Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10703 alt.alien.visitors:6999 sci.skeptic:27174 In-Reply-To: wilbur@starfish.cps.msu.edu's message of 7 Jul 92 03:48:22 GMT In article <1992Jul7.034822.21414@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> wilbur@starfish.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) writes: In article <61586@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: |> Dear Arasis: |> I was in the town of Mt. Shasta City at 9:00 P.M. July the 4th watching |> the fire works. At 9:20 P.M. I remembered about your group activity and |> pointed my flashlight over towards Mt. Shasta (the mountain itself). I |> blinked the light on and off and someone or something (I don't know for |> sure what) was blinking back. I sent the people inside the mountain and |> the space people a telepathic thought that we love them and want to work |> with them for the good of the Earth and everything else. So, thanks to you |> Arasis for your suggestion that we do this. |> That's all folks. |> John Winston. Is this guy for real? Anyone know him? I'm sure that by "telephatic message" he meant that even though HE know he can't send ones, he made his "thoughts" formulated as if he was saying words in his head, and if BY CHANCE there happened to be a alien, be it green or whatever, who happened to have telephatic powers and "read" peoples mind, then the alien could have catched it. Pretty useless, IMHO. I've done it also. The guy's for real. You're just too close minded. Really, with enough "facts", anybody can make anybody, even himself, believe just about anything. That absolutely has no bearing on wheter the "anything" is true or false. Patrick. -- /---------------------------\ | Patrick "Paradak" Rannou. | | Rannou@info.polymtl.ca | \---------------------------/